Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Who says that there is no God? But you seem to be telling us that there is no God. When you make claims and have no evidence it tells us that the character that you believe in does not exist.
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Evidence
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
Who says that there is no God? But you seem to be telling us that there is no God. When you make claims and have no evidence it tells us that the character that you believe in does not exist.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Yeah?
..and where are those plates now?
Oh, that's right .. nobody is allowed to see.
We just have to believe in a succession of prophets from LDS headquarters.
Much like the infallible Popes.
satan thinks he's got it all sewn up, doesn't he?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Whoosh!!!!Yeah?
..and where are those plates now?
Oh, that's right .. nobody is allowed to see.
We just have to believe in a succession of prophets from LDS headquarters.
Much like the infallible Popes.
satan thinks he's got it all sewn up, doesn't he?
Finally common ground. I would not go to a Baha'i site and start telling the Baha'i how illogical and unreasonable they are. I would leave them to discuss what they wish to.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Your powers of observation are not good, imo.
..but then, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Civilisations rise and fall.
You cannot see the doom just round the corner, because you have no spiritual eyes. You just see how "smart" mankind is today, and all of their material achievements.
..not long to go now .. only a few years .. life is only going to get worse, before it gets better.
We cannot "cheat" and trade carbon, and expect climate-change to reverse.
Carbon trading is the process of buying and selling permits and credits that allow the permit holder to emit carbon dioxide.
There are limits to growth, and ignoring spiritual truth results in catastrophes of huge proportion.
I can't argue with that, that's what it says and I came for the same reason. Mind blown.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Well that was a bunch of nonsense, but I did not expect anything else.Your powers of observation are not good, imo.
..but then, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Civilisations rise and fall.
You cannot see the doom just round the corner, because you have no spiritual eyes. You just see how "smart" mankind is today, and all of their material achievements.
..not long to go now .. only a few years .. life is only going to get worse, before it gets better.
We cannot "cheat" and trade carbon, and expect climate-change to reverse.
Carbon trading is the process of buying and selling permits and credits that allow the permit holder to emit carbon dioxide.
There are limits to growth, and ignoring spiritual truth results in catastrophes of huge proportion.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Exactly .. the world is a "bunch of nonsense".
How long have we known about climate-change?
40 years?
..and now it is getting quite critical .. what have the younger generation got to look forward to?
A world where catastrophes happen at an ever increasing rate along with decreasing stability and war.
You're the "critical thinker" .. tell me what I have got wrong?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Father told me. He saw his owned recorded vision. Saw my mother's.
O opened as a vibration in the heavens mass which they both walked through. As a pre eternal being. Why we exist but end converted destroyed 100 years lived converting. Beyond living converting biology still converts to dusts.
Why Human ends up like gods earth dust mass as skeletal dusts as Gods mass like us had come from eternal. Unlike the gods we hadn't burnt. Is the proof. We aren't mass the body God.
Try to make us that God dust mass history we die combusted to carbon. The new beginning thesis of men with machines. You came from carbon he says to humans.
Eternal god ours not eternal hell God Isn't any sun UFO that came from suns mass. Sun mass converted in space to star mass...came through burning the immaculate mass igniting it making grounds sink holes.
Gods ark history sun built. Bored tunnels... tubes.
Natural light began.
Immaculate spirits only origin a once only mass sacrifice as gods Inheritor above body.
Void vacuum activation holding light above...as stars UFO mass was removed.
An incident.
Not the God of humans life.
Heavens mass cooling gaining density pushing was bulging onto the eternal at the side of earths heavens. Eternal ours is inside heavens body space filled in....forced spirit out via vibrational gods heavens opening O.
O vibrating circles we state is GOD..our God isn't spinning reacting cooling.
Exactly where we came from eternal GOD.
Eternal hell's GOD is cooling spinning..spiral how a hole gets bored.
All life proven by science a man plus machine was carbon destroyed.
Heavens heated heavens cooled after the incident not to origin earths mass body temperatures. Allowed the new giant life to emerge. Nature dinosaurs.
It died destroyed as the star fall that killed off origin earth human animal life keeps returning.
We know the star had not created life. It gave man notification in its smaller mass returned how to convert earths mass back to position nothing. So he knew how to stop it before it became the hole as a reaction.
Taught by stars history.
Hence he had to be present to be taught how to convert. Not cause nothing but then inherit nothing ground sin sink hole for removing mass that hadn't been removed before. As visionary advice.
As his reactions one of added up to a large earths mass removal. Thesis is a one only term first.
Pretty basic advice. Believe in father's mother holiness as your own behaviours prove we were always spiritual or believe a metal UFO invented biology by a man's thesis. Men who behave nothing like father had.
Father said space cooled is now empty. Burnt out gone eternal body. Space now separated the eternal from burnt eternal mass. Has always been there. Eternal has a hole in its body.
Only because God the earth filled in empty space where once the real eternal as a non burnt body mass was ...did it now exist side by side with the eternal. But within heavens mass itself.
Heavens was a return from the burnt eternal is never the real eternal. Heavens Transcended time and space as a gas with water mass.
Eternal type pure is our God. Always had been.
It's not the God of humans machine theories from dust mass to a machine. Not either place as suns dusts or earths mass dusts.
O opened as a vibration in the heavens mass which they both walked through. As a pre eternal being. Why we exist but end converted destroyed 100 years lived converting. Beyond living converting biology still converts to dusts.
Why Human ends up like gods earth dust mass as skeletal dusts as Gods mass like us had come from eternal. Unlike the gods we hadn't burnt. Is the proof. We aren't mass the body God.
Try to make us that God dust mass history we die combusted to carbon. The new beginning thesis of men with machines. You came from carbon he says to humans.
Eternal god ours not eternal hell God Isn't any sun UFO that came from suns mass. Sun mass converted in space to star mass...came through burning the immaculate mass igniting it making grounds sink holes.
Gods ark history sun built. Bored tunnels... tubes.
Natural light began.
Immaculate spirits only origin a once only mass sacrifice as gods Inheritor above body.
Void vacuum activation holding light above...as stars UFO mass was removed.
An incident.
Not the God of humans life.
Heavens mass cooling gaining density pushing was bulging onto the eternal at the side of earths heavens. Eternal ours is inside heavens body space filled in....forced spirit out via vibrational gods heavens opening O.
O vibrating circles we state is GOD..our God isn't spinning reacting cooling.
Exactly where we came from eternal GOD.
Eternal hell's GOD is cooling spinning..spiral how a hole gets bored.
All life proven by science a man plus machine was carbon destroyed.
Heavens heated heavens cooled after the incident not to origin earths mass body temperatures. Allowed the new giant life to emerge. Nature dinosaurs.
It died destroyed as the star fall that killed off origin earth human animal life keeps returning.
We know the star had not created life. It gave man notification in its smaller mass returned how to convert earths mass back to position nothing. So he knew how to stop it before it became the hole as a reaction.
Taught by stars history.
Hence he had to be present to be taught how to convert. Not cause nothing but then inherit nothing ground sin sink hole for removing mass that hadn't been removed before. As visionary advice.
As his reactions one of added up to a large earths mass removal. Thesis is a one only term first.
Pretty basic advice. Believe in father's mother holiness as your own behaviours prove we were always spiritual or believe a metal UFO invented biology by a man's thesis. Men who behave nothing like father had.
Father said space cooled is now empty. Burnt out gone eternal body. Space now separated the eternal from burnt eternal mass. Has always been there. Eternal has a hole in its body.
Only because God the earth filled in empty space where once the real eternal as a non burnt body mass was ...did it now exist side by side with the eternal. But within heavens mass itself.
Heavens was a return from the burnt eternal is never the real eternal. Heavens Transcended time and space as a gas with water mass.
Eternal type pure is our God. Always had been.
It's not the God of humans machine theories from dust mass to a machine. Not either place as suns dusts or earths mass dusts.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Have you not noticed that the human population has been continually growing especially over the last 300 years? Do you think that that might have something to do with it?
Belief in what theists typically refer to as their gods is not fact-based. A supernatural is not a category that has any known items.
You, and otehr believers, have failed to present any valid evidence that your Gods exist outsid eof your imaginations, so the only conclusion is that belief in Gods is unfounded. Feel free to rebut this conclusion with valid evidence and a coherent exlpanation.
The only source Abrahamic believers have to consider thier Gods is ancient texts, and these texts are not verficable through reason. The many Gods described by Abrahamics don't seem to be plausible, but they could be possible.
Because we are emotioanlly secure and don't need illusions to cope.
Uncertainty isn't a need, it's inevitable. Even if you have false beliefs that supposedly answer questions facts can't, you are doing this in response to the uncertainty you are aware of. It's self-deception. The question you should ask is why you need self-deception, and why allow it to work?
You can't be certain, because Gods aren't know to exist, including you. To pretend a God is real is an example of self-deception, as I noted above.
Over the decades I've debated there are quite a few posters who began their participation as theists and through the process ended up rejecting religion. I think that is a huge benefit for many people who can see arguments against conditioned belief. Most people are unskilled thinkers, so the lack the tools to introspect their religious beliefs. These forums offer a means and access to reasoning by skilled thinkers and offers them a way to understand themselves and what they believe.
I suggest you try to understand your motives instead of falling back on your habit of belief.
Believers don't have to argue for their beliefs, yet they keep making outrageous, non-factual claims?
Yet you don't post these arguments, nor mention who did your homework for you.
And who tells people their souls need saving? Could it be religious salespeople selling a bad product?
This claim is surely false given the lack of evidence, and that no Gods are known to exist. Why do you post these decarative statements when you know they are not accepted as true? You don't convince thinkers, so are you trying to reinforce your beliefs and offset your doubts? Your tactics are similar to propaganda.
Assuming a Jesus actually existed. But we have reason to doubt what Muhammad wrote.
More critical thinking would help, and less religious fervor. Too many believe in false ideas and conspiracy theories.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Basic self advice.
No man human the theist of science.
Humans would still exist.
You have human parent adult sex. Live as the human being human exact.
Within heavens god.
Told.
A human says my human god life's continuance is heavens god
Ask where original human came from. The eternal is the answer.
A human theist comparing information by human only thought says a monkey.
Preaches as a human theist. Says a changed mutated monkey was a new monkey type. A human.
Notice he says monkey body first in all positions.
A theory a bird became the same bird but owned a changed beak. He says proves his theory.
So a mutated monkey now is still just a monkey. Born by monkey parent sex.
Forgets to include all life now is by sex.
Mutation is less than its origin highest species healthy.
Is why we know we came from the eternal.
Each body pre owned changed its spirit type eternal body just in waters oxygen mineralised water mass. Same body.
We live and die in biologies self owned body. Still converting it eventually becomes hard Skeleton then dusts.
Earth began as rock as rock held volcanic within.
Hence dusts on earth caused by attack the sun proves its earth attack had forced spirit out of the eternal as like god our body eventually becomes dusts.
The actual teaching. No man is God.
Proving it's Lower form volcanic.
No man human the theist of science.
Humans would still exist.
You have human parent adult sex. Live as the human being human exact.
Within heavens god.
Told.
A human says my human god life's continuance is heavens god
Ask where original human came from. The eternal is the answer.
A human theist comparing information by human only thought says a monkey.
Preaches as a human theist. Says a changed mutated monkey was a new monkey type. A human.
Notice he says monkey body first in all positions.
A theory a bird became the same bird but owned a changed beak. He says proves his theory.
So a mutated monkey now is still just a monkey. Born by monkey parent sex.
Forgets to include all life now is by sex.
Mutation is less than its origin highest species healthy.
Is why we know we came from the eternal.
Each body pre owned changed its spirit type eternal body just in waters oxygen mineralised water mass. Same body.
We live and die in biologies self owned body. Still converting it eventually becomes hard Skeleton then dusts.
Earth began as rock as rock held volcanic within.
Hence dusts on earth caused by attack the sun proves its earth attack had forced spirit out of the eternal as like god our body eventually becomes dusts.
The actual teaching. No man is God.
Proving it's Lower form volcanic.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I don't expect you to believe me, Tony, but based on my years of experience as a psychic medium, I believe that the afterlife will be very different from what most non-believers and Abrahamic theists believe and expect it to be. I'm also a paranormal investigator with over 15 years of experience in paranormal research and investigation. I've personally confirmed in my investigations over these years that what I see, hear, and feel as a medium is real. As I said, I don't expect you to believe me. I was simply sharing what I believe.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Rational minds know that the standards of evidence for religion can never be the same as the standards of evidence for science and law. This is basic logic.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What you have shared with me about communication with spirits is very similar to what I have read in the book entitled The Afterlife Revealed, which is similar to what is in the Baha'i Writings, albeit with further elaboration on life in the spiritual world. I took that book out and I am reading it again. If you have not read it I would highly suggest you read it. Then we could compare notes.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I have never studied it much, other than to read what some Christians have written about it, but they claim Muhammad got several of his stories about Jesus from apocryphal gospels.
This would be evidence of Muhammad borrowing apocryphal stories to write the Quran. Which, if true, wouldn't confirm the Bible, but instead show that the Quran is a work of fiction. But not like the NT and Bible don't have their share of borrowed fictional ideas and stories in them.
Jesus turns a clay bird into a real one in Suras 3:49 and 5:110.
As proof of Jesus’ miraculous start, Muhammad says that Jesus will make a clay bird fly.
The Quran says in Sura 3:49 that Jesus predicts that he will turn a clay bird into a real one:
3:49 [Then Jesus says to the children of Israel:] "I will make a bird for you out of clay, then breathe into it and, with God’s permission, it will become a real bird" . . . (Haleem)
The Quran says in Sura 5:110 that Jesus has done the trick:
. . . y My leave, you [Jesus] fashioned the shape of a bird out of clay, breathed into it, and it became, by My leave, a bird . . . (Haleem)
Where does Muhammad get the fiction about Jesus turning a clay bird into a living one? The ultimate source is found in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas.
The apocryphal gospel says:
2.1 [Jesus] made soft clay and modeled twelve sparrows from it . . . 4. Jesus clapped his hands and cried to the sparrows, "Be gone." And the sparrows flew off chirping. (The New Testament Apocrypha, vol. 1, p. 444)
Of course, the number of clay birds (sparrows) and the cause of the birds flying off differ in the two accounts, but the core is there in both. Despite the belief of devout Muslims in revelations about a clay bird, for those of us on the outside of Islam who have not abandoned critical thinking entirely, it is unimaginable that Muhammad got these verses out of thin air and not from the pseudo-gospel as the ultimate source.
To repeat, it is not necessary that Muhammad would have any of the apocryphal gospels in front of him, poring over them. Instead, he picks up ideas here and there in a hodge-podge way, along the trade routes, as the stories circulated by poets or simple storytellers or curious seekers over the centuries. This means that the details may differ, but the essential ideas will be kept.
Reasonable people must therefore conclude that all of these passages in the apocryphal gospels are the foundation for the Quranic passages analyzed in the last four sections.
Therefore, Allah through Gabriel did not send any of these legends down to Muhammad. They came from defective human sources.
As proof of Jesus’ miraculous start, Muhammad says that Jesus will make a clay bird fly.
The Quran says in Sura 3:49 that Jesus predicts that he will turn a clay bird into a real one:
3:49 [Then Jesus says to the children of Israel:] "I will make a bird for you out of clay, then breathe into it and, with God’s permission, it will become a real bird" . . . (Haleem)
The Quran says in Sura 5:110 that Jesus has done the trick:
. . . y My leave, you [Jesus] fashioned the shape of a bird out of clay, breathed into it, and it became, by My leave, a bird . . . (Haleem)
Where does Muhammad get the fiction about Jesus turning a clay bird into a living one? The ultimate source is found in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas.
The apocryphal gospel says:
2.1 [Jesus] made soft clay and modeled twelve sparrows from it . . . 4. Jesus clapped his hands and cried to the sparrows, "Be gone." And the sparrows flew off chirping. (The New Testament Apocrypha, vol. 1, p. 444)
Of course, the number of clay birds (sparrows) and the cause of the birds flying off differ in the two accounts, but the core is there in both. Despite the belief of devout Muslims in revelations about a clay bird, for those of us on the outside of Islam who have not abandoned critical thinking entirely, it is unimaginable that Muhammad got these verses out of thin air and not from the pseudo-gospel as the ultimate source.
To repeat, it is not necessary that Muhammad would have any of the apocryphal gospels in front of him, poring over them. Instead, he picks up ideas here and there in a hodge-podge way, along the trade routes, as the stories circulated by poets or simple storytellers or curious seekers over the centuries. This means that the details may differ, but the essential ideas will be kept.
Reasonable people must therefore conclude that all of these passages in the apocryphal gospels are the foundation for the Quranic passages analyzed in the last four sections.
Therefore, Allah through Gabriel did not send any of these legends down to Muhammad. They came from defective human sources.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yes, the testimonials from those meetings and what they experienced...
Luke 24:34 “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.
Jesus Appears to the Disciples
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
Acts1:1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.
Do Baha'is believe these testimonies in the NT. I don't think they do.Jesus Appears to the Disciples
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
Acts1:1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Evolution is the testable proposed mechanism for the data we have.
When tested, it checks out.
There is no other proposed mechanism with equal, let alone better, results.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Again...................................
Evolution is the proposed testable mechanism by which populations evolve.
When tested, it checks out.
There is no other mechanism known that achieves equal, let alone better, results.
And you should know better by now... nobody on our side of the fence has ever said anything about "certainty". Au contraire... if anything, whenever that subject was touched upon, it was to make clear that science doesn't deal in certainties.
But we know by now that you have a bad habit of arguing strawmen and misrepresenting your "opponents".
You seem incapable of honest discourse.