Evidence

[muhammad_isa]

No, irrational to anyone that can reason rationally.

Ha ha, yes .. that's very amusing.

 

[Trailblazer]

If everyone in the world were suddenly to believe that god existed, and not just any god but a specific definition of god, I'd take that as evidence. Wouldn't you?

I would not hold your breath waiting for that to happen...
No, I would not take that as evidence that God existed, I would take it as a paranormal phenomenon, since that could never happen under normal circumstances....

It would never happen unless God took over human free will and made it happen, so indirectly it might be evidence that God exists.

I was thinking of inexplicable by any known scientific understanding.

As @Sgt. Pepper knows only too well, there are paranormal things that are inexplicable by any known scientific understandings. Would that do it for you?

I think it would have to be followed up in some way. Like a warning to stop fighting followed, if it was disobeyed, by all weapons of war disappearing from the Earth. Then all disease instantly cured. Then ... well we can go on. No doubt some would claim it was aliens not a god, but I'd settle for that. They'd be near enough to a god for me.

I would not hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Elimination of all disease would require God intervening in the natural world and overriding the course of nature and removal of all the weapons would require going against the laws of physics!

But that still would not prove that God exists since it could be caused by aliens as you said. Aliens who were much more advanced than humans could make diseases disappear and they could locate and grab up all the weapons. Just think about what we can do now that we could not do 50 years ago, GPS and all the other technology we have. There is no end to what humans can do if they set their minds to it. We could even find the cures for all diseases so everyone would live into old age and die a natural death.

 

[muhammad_isa]

But, as soon as you prove that those books are reliable then we will accept them...

I don't believe that.
I believe that you will only believe it, if God wills.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ha ha, yes .. that's very amusing.

You could show that I was wrong. Instead of repeatedly posting irrational claims you could try to surprise me with a rational ragument.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't believe that.
I believe that you will only believe it, if God wills.

Now you are claiming that God is evil. If you could reason rationally you would see that.

 

[CG Didymus]

I agree that that much can be tiring. I don't know if you remember, but I was once well starting to consider myself a Baha'i (probably around late 2019), but saw some things that I didn't like when the other Baha'is were seeming to, in my opinion, trip over their own feet and just on rather simple questions. And this was after their tendency to profess that they had the answers to world peace.

That being said, I'm torn on this actual subject in the interest of fairness... I don't think the approach is correct that's being put forth, but saying "There is no evidence" seems a bit harsh - if it were me, I'd settle for just saying, "There is no reasonable proof presented, at least not to a non-Baha'i."

I was almost a Baha'i too... fifty years ago. What tripped me up was that I do believe that all the major religions teach different things. They aren't all "one". The Baha'i Faith has their own interpretation of each that makes them all one. But it is by doing away with the beliefs within those religions that contradict the Baha'i Faith. Like doing away with Satan and the physical resurrection in Christianity, and getting rid of the incarnation and reincarnation that many Hindus believe in.

So, sure, all religions can be made one. But, to me, the Baha'i interpretation does more than that... It makes all those other religions obsolete. They, the Baha'is, become the fulfillment of all those other religions. So, why would anyone keep following the old version when the updated version has come? But then... it the Baha'i Faith really the new, improved, updated truth from God? That's debatable. Is Baha'u'llah really the promised return of Jesus, of Buddha, of Krishna? Is he the Madhi and Messiah? Debatable. Did Baha'u'llah fulfill every prophecy of every religion? Debatable. Will the Baha'i peace plan work? Not very many people, including Baha'is, even bothered with Tony's thread about the Baha'i peace plan.

But even though, I have my doubts about it, I think it is worth it for a person to go to their meetings and see for themselves what they are doing. Unfortunately, I think the belief might be that the world has to collapse and will collapse before the people of the world turn to the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Trailblazer]

And that it is just another claim has been pointed out to you in other posts. You need to support all three of those claims.

The Person
The Revelation
THE Message.
are not claims, they are the evidence that supports the claims, as has been pointed out to you in other posts..

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Now you are making no sense. But, as soon as you prove that those books are reliable then we will accept them. Until then they are merely empty claims.

This OP is not about exceptance, or proof. We have progressed, you are now asking me to provide proof of the given evidence, the Word.

The key to understand if the word in the book is reliable, one now has to determine if the one who gave that word is trustworthy and truthful. See how we now can explore other sources of evidence, the Messenger, their life and their Revelation, that was recorded as the Word

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I seriously doubt that. They may believe, but that does not mean that they learned anything. Knowledge is demonstrable and believers pretty much fail when they try to demonstrate what they "know".

Believers have knowledge of religion, which is all they need to know in order to know about God.

 

[F1fan]

That is what the evidence is for.

The "evidence" is empty of fact, and only works to reinforce the belief of those who already believe for non-rational reasons.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Now you are claiming that God is evil. If you could reason rationally you would see that.

God is not a person.
..so the mechanism involved in whether "God wills" or not, is not straightforward.

If your intention is mischievous, then you spiritually blind yourself.
If it is sincere, then you might see that belief is rational.

 

[CG Didymus]

This OP has established that evidence does include the Person, the Revelation and the Message.

So it is about getting beyond the constant accusations that it is not evidence.

It does not concern me what people think of that evidence, but there are entire conversations that are just a pure waste of time, ones that demand evidence, that has already been provided.

Regards Tony

But is it a waste of time? Some of us aren't happy with what Baha'i provide. And the Baha'is get tired of "providing" the same answers and evidence. How do we get beyond that and start listening to each other? I would hope that if the Baha'i Faith truly is meant to bring peace and unity, it would be them, the Baha'is, that break down the communication barriers and start finding ways to really be "one" with all people, rather than to continue to be just as divisive as everybody else.

 

[Trailblazer]

Believers aren't as stupid as you seem to think.

Think about it....
If the 93% of people who are believers are stupid, how would the world continue to function?
How would anything function in society, hospitals, universities, governments?
Everything is not run by the 7% of the world population who are atheists, that would be logically impossible!

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

The "evidence" is empty of fact, and only works to reinforce the belief of those who already believe for non-rational reasons.

People believe what they want to believe...

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Person
The Revelation
THE Message.
are not claims, they are the evidence that supports the claims, as has been pointed out to you in other posts..

No, seriously you need to do better than that. You are only repeating dogma. That is not evidence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Think about it....
If the 93% of people who are believers are stupid, how would the world continue to function?
How would anything function in society, hospitals, universities, governments?
Everything is not run by the 7% of the world population who are atheists, that would be logically impossible!

Just because one has an irrational belief does not make them stupid.

 

[F1fan]

This OP is not about exceptance, or proof. We have progressed, you are now asking me to provide proof of the given evidence, the Word.

You wrote this:

This OP is to finalise once and for all what is Evidence of God. After this OP there will be no need for anyone to demand evidence, as it will have been provided.

This OP is applicable to all Faiths Moses and Torah, Jesus New Testament, Muhammad Koran, etc), but I will use what has been offered in the Bahai writings.​

Yet we are still demanding evidence because you theists are still making claims that lack adequate evidence.

The key to understand if the word in the book is reliable, one now has to determine if the one who gave that word is trustworthy and truthful. See how we now can explore other sources of evidence, the Messenger, their life and their Revelation, that was recorded as the Word

You haven't demonstrated any of this, so we reject it all be default.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God is not a person.
..so the mechanism involved in whether "God wills" or not, is not straightforward.

If your intention is mischievous, then you spiritually blind yourself.
If it is sincere, then you might see that belief is rational.

Did I claim that God was a person? One of the reasons that your beliefs appear to be irrational is because you could not even define what your God is. It is nigh impossible to have a rational belief when one does not know what one believes in.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Believers have knowledge of religion, which is all they need to know in order to know about God.

So far that does not appear to be the case. You are abusing the word "knowledge". Knowledge is demonstrable and the OP and all of his supporters have failed at that. All that has been done is the repeating of dogma and claiming that that is evidence.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Did I claim that God was a person?

No .. you claimed that God did not exist.