Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood

[Audie]

In Scripture I find Not authors (plural), but that the ' authors ' were God's secretary as per 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
ALL of the figurative six days are summed up by the word ' day ' at Genesis 2:4.
Thus, like today the word ' day ' has shades of meaning including when we speak of grandfather's day.
Plus, the 7th day was still on going in the first century as per Hebrews 4:4-11.
So, each of the creative days could even be of the same or of differing lengths in time.

Exactly so. You have no idea what they meant.

And no answer about eternal truths.

 

[Audie]

By the 6-day poor (pour?) the rains fell for 40 days and nights.
Earliest possible biblical date for Adam and Even is only approx. some 6,000+ years ago.

Secular history puts Israel in Egypt.
The Cairo Museum in Egypt has the granite Merneptah stela that mentions Israel as a non-biblical reference.
Pharaoh of Egypt used the word 'Israel' when referring to Jacob's descendants at Exodus 5:2

The six day poof.
The "six days" inwhich the universe was
supposedly created. You know, the days that
wer enot really days, and the six that was not six.

The physical record of the ice
show that the world was here long before the
supposed 6 day poof, and that the "flood" ,
like the poof, is a myth. Did not happen.

Or course there re records from Rome
and Egypt, probably Mesopotamia, of
"Israel". So what? There are records of
"London". But there was no Sherlock Holmes.
That is just a storyl

There is not record of "Exodus" except
in the bible.

The record in the ice shows there is no
record of a poof or a flood.

 

[Muffled]

It is not necessary to believe that everything in the Bible is literal in order to be Christian. Spirituality doesn't need to be bound to myths in order to be valid.

I believe if one were a Christian one would believe everything in the Bible. So the belief does not have to come first but it should come afterwards.

 

[Audie]

I believe if one were a Christian one would believe everything in the Bible. So the belief does not have to come first but it should come afterwards.

You believe that Jesus is / was a lamb, and a door?

Is this really-really what you believe will happen?

You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.

 

[Muffled]

The six day poof.
The "six days" inwhich the universe was
supposedly created. You know, the days that
wer enot really days, and the six that was not six.

The physical record of the ice
show that the world was here long before the
supposed 6 day poof, and that the "flood" ,
like the poof, is a myth. Did not happen.

Or course there re records from Rome
and Egypt, probably Mesopotamia, of
"Israel". So what? There are records of
"London". But there was no Sherlock Holmes.
That is just a storyl

There is not record of "Exodus" except
in the bible.

The record in the ice shows there is no
record of a poof or a flood.

I believe that requires one to know when the six day creation took place. I don't know anyone who does.

I believe evolution is formed from a lack of records but that doesn't keep people from believing in it.

 

[Muffled]

You believe that Jesus is / was a lamb, and a door?

Is this really-really what you believe will happen?

You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.

I believe that is metaphorically true.

I believe the first sentence will happen and the second may be more perception than metaphorical. {Like the stars twinkling)

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Wait... You think that God DICTATED your scriptures to the authors the way a boss dictates a letter to his secretary? And you use 2 Tim :16-17 to back up that assertion??? All those verses say is inspired/God-breathed. It says nothing about dictated, as if the authors had no part in determining what was set down.
In Judaism, we see the Tanakh on a kind of graduated scale. The Torah (the T in TNKh) was essentially dictated by God to Moses in the manner you have suggested. Umpteen verses say, "And the LORD said, Speak to the Children of Israel saying..." Then there are the writings of the Nevi'im or Prophets (the N in TNKh). God spoke to the Prophets indirectly through dreams and visions. Numbers 12:6. IOW, definitely not dictated, but given in symbols that must be interpreted. Finally there are just the Khetuvim, the Writings (the Kh in TNKh). These are really just written by men with God merely inspiring -- the words, metaphors and images, etc., are all entirely the discretion of the author, but their works are important to us a a Jewish community.

Thank you for your reply. I used the Boss / secretary idea because once a secretary writes something the Boss puts His name on it. He is given credit as Author. I would Not say God's spirit dictated, but it inspired the writers.
The old Hebrew Scriptures or works were important to the 1st-century Jewish community because the 1st-century people (Luke 3:15) were in ' expectation ' of Messiah coming because of what was already recorded by Daniel, etc.
The old Hebrew Scriptures were also important to Jesus because Jesus based his teaching on them.
Jesus used logical reasoning on the Hebrew Scriptures, even referring or quoting them as final authority on matters.
Jesus believed those Hebrew Scriptures were ' religious truth ' as per John 17:17.

 

[Audie]

I believe that is metaphorically true.

I believe the first sentence will happen and the second may be more perception than metaphorical. {Like the stars twinkling)

Ah so, you dont believe the bible, you believe
yourself.

 

[Audie]

I

I believe evolution is formed from a lack of records but that doesn't keep people from believing in it.

As previously noted, an argument or belief from ignorance.

"evolution is formed from a lack of evidence"
does not even make sense.

As for your last part there-

Knowing nothing of science does not
keep you from disbelieving it.

 

[Shad]

What makes you think that the past cannot be demonstrated? You do realize that most criminals are prosecuted by "demonstrating the past" don't you?

Amusing considering how many crimes shows are on TV these days. The basic premise of these shows is demonstrating events from the past.

 

[Audie]

Amusing considering how many crimes shows are on TV these days. The basic premise of these shows is demonstrating events from the past.

If our fundy were a landlord, and students rented a house
for the school year-
And they made a big mess, never cleaned up, partied all
year.
Beer cans, pizza boxes, all manner of garbage, layer
upon layer.

The students might want their damage deposit back.

"We did not do it!! We kept it clean, someone must have
came in and done that the day after we left!!"

What might the fundy do in a case like that.

 

[Shad]

If our fundy were a landlord, and students rented a house
for the school year-
And they made a big mess, never cleaned up, partied all
year.
Beer cans, pizza boxes, all manner of garbage, layer
upon layer.

The students might want their damage deposit back.

"We did not do it!! We kept it clean, someone must have
came in and done that the day after we left!!"

What might the fundy do in a case like that.

Assume the mess was created when the lease ran out. Ergo the very day of the inspection.

This was the only thing I could think of.

 

[Audie]

Assume the mess was created when the lease ran out. Ergo the very day of the inspection.

This was the only thing I could think of.

Lets see if our fundy can self-identify and
say what he would do.

Lets say ti goes to court.
The students say in chorus, that they didnt do it.
How might the landlord counter?

 

[Jose Fly]

If our fundy were a landlord, and students rented a house
for the school year-
And they made a big mess, never cleaned up, partied all
year.
Beer cans, pizza boxes, all manner of garbage, layer
upon layer.

The students might want their damage deposit back.

"We did not do it!! We kept it clean, someone must have
came in and done that the day after we left!!"

What might the fundy do in a case like that.

"Wow....I knew the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics was universal, I just didn't know it was so fast!!"

 

[Subduction Zone]

Amusing considering how many crimes shows are on TV these days. The basic premise of these shows is demonstrating events from the past.

Reminds me of this:

 

[Shad]

Reminds me of this:

Haggad's car.... hahahah

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Thank you for your reply. I used the Boss / secretary idea because once a secretary writes something the Boss puts His name on it. He is given credit as Author..

Ooooohhh. I see now. I misunderstood your analogy. Actually now that you've clarified it, it's pretty dog gone good.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Please! I've explained a lot. I am not worried whether you or other skeptics accept it or not.

There are many details not provided in the Genesis account so I won't comment on what isn't there, but enough evidence exists to give it credibility.

In addition to the evidences I've posted, I want to say.....

I'm an Old-Earther. Yet I see the Genesis Flood as Global. I mean, Noah and family are in the Ark, 370 days! If it were local, the waters would have drained off much sooner, and Noah and family wouldn't have needed to stay in the Ark over a year!

There's no reason that I can see, in light of another Biblical passage at Psalms 104 which describes Earth's pre-Flood topography as smoother, where evidence would fail to explain a Global Flood. In fact, it supports it....

I know the rocks are old, but I see many youthful (geologically speaking) mountain ranges. They have well-defined, crisp features, as if they were recently formed as those "valleys sank down (Psalms 104)," due to the "springs of the deep" being broken, i.e., thrust upward. If the Himilayas or Alps were millions of years old... with the extreme amount of erosion they endure, they'd be rounded stumps by now! After the Flood, tectonic forces took over.

Again...old earth, but young features. That's how I see it.

It also explains the permafrost, and the extinction of megafaunal grazers in those high latitudes, like mammoths etc. *Drastic* climate changes!

With the "waters above" prior to the Deluge, from which came *some* of the Flood waters, the climate around the Earth would be temperate even in northern latitudes, and provided enough vegetation which in turn allowed for these grazers to thrive, as is discovered.

But once these waters fell, temperatures plunged, and coupled with the "waters below", nothing would ever be the same!

We also find discrepencies in 14C readings, in organic material over 5,000 years, huge jumps in dating....what could account for it? One explanation is the Earth's atmosphere was like a greenhouse, i.e., had less cosmic rays affecting it. That would definitely effect changes in carbon decay rates.

So while you and others, when explaining these anomalies, simply say, "we don't know"... there are those of us who do.

 

[Milton Platt]

Global Flood evidence:

1.Vast herds, comprising perhaps millions of grazing animals, discovered within the muck fields by gold hunters in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (delicate flowers like buttercups, that only grow in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf

The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?” Keep in mind, some of the water (not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) came from above, from the atmosphere....the troposphere?...the mesosphere?...the stratosphere? The Bible doesn’t say, it is silent. (Maybe from all five.) But the waters above the Earth caused temperatures to be very mild, and pleasantly warm.... similar to a greenhouse effect, worldwide. (That’s why Adam & Eve could go naked, and be very comfortable.) Yes, the Bible indicates there were seasons, but apparently mild ones.

All of that drastically changed, with the break in this canopy! Temperatures would drop suddenly!

2.This project, completed by physics students of the University of Leicester, provides an interesting conclusion:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/university-of-leicester-physics-students-says-noahs-ark-would-have-floated-with-two-each-of-35000-species-of-animal/news-story/a7e558bc25fecf8e2865867579f05479.

And this one:
Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

Further information:
Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

3.Coupled with that, the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability! Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that this ratio is perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?

4.The numerous Flood legends (exceeding 250, one anthropologist says near 1,000), that share many similarities, some strikingly so, that indicates a common source.

5.Furthermore, the Bible clearly states, in Psalms 104, that the Flood was the cause of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (Due to the underground waters spewing upward, and the land settling downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, did not exist before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. Some were even underwater prior to the Flood — see #6. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)

6.[related to #5]The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!

7.Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth. If we again take into account what Psalms 104 reveals — that it was the Flood that caused our current topography, the very high mountains and low valleys, then the Earth’s terrain was somewhat smoother than now. (And Genesis tells us, the highest mountain was covered by around 22 ft. of the water.) It’s been determined that if the Earth was smoothed out like a billiard ball, the present water in all the ocean and lake basins would cover the planet to a depth of 2.5 miles! More than enough.....yet, scientists have discovered even more water in the Earth’s mantle, estimated to be almost 10 times as much as exists on our surface! So, that presents no obstacle!

8.The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8'. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!

Are you of the mindset that, when reading about God causing a global Flood, you don’t think He’d use His power throughout other aspects of the event? Or afterwards? Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain everything He does?


I’ve presented a lot of evidence. Are you open-minded enough, to consider it now?

EDIT: Well, it’s been over a day since I posted, and it’s obvious some simply aren’t open-minded enough; they are so biased even to the point where they attack the poster....me....rather than debate the evidence.

Sad but expected.

Well, you haven’t presented evidence for a biblical flood, and certainly haven’t used a credible source for your initial post.

Have there been worldwide catastrophies? Sure. Mass volcanic activity, meteor strikes, shifting atmospheric makeup have all been at play there.
But you have not made the case for a world wide flood. Nor have you provided evidence that such a supposed event had any connection to your god of choice.

Personsl attacks do happen on this forum. Things get heated sometimes. Don’t use that as a diversion from having to support your assertions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please! I've explained a lot. I am not worried whether you or other skeptics accept it or not.

There are many details not provided in the Genesis account so I won't comment on what isn't there, but enough evidence exists to give it credibility.

In addition to the evidences I've posted, I want to say.....

I'm an Old-Earther. Yet I see the Genesis Flood as Global. I mean, Noah and family are in the Ark, 370 days! If it were local, the waters would have drained off much sooner, and Noah and family wouldn't have needed to stay in the Ark over a year!

There's no reason that I can see, in light of another Biblical passage at Psalms 104 which describes Earth's pre-Flood topography as smoother, where evidence would fail to explain a Global Flood. In fact, it supports it....

I know the rocks are old, but I see many youthful (geologically speaking) mountain ranges. They have well-defined, crisp features, as if they were recently formed as those "valleys sank down (Psalms 104)," due to the "springs of the deep" being broken, i.e., thrust upward. If the Himilayas or Alps were millions of years old... with the extreme amount of erosion they endure, they'd be rounded stumps by now! After the Flood, tectonic forces took over.

Again...old earth, but young features. That's how I see it.

It also explains the permafrost, and the extinction of megafaunal grazers in those high latitudes, like mammoths etc. *Drastic* climate changes!

With the "waters above" prior to the Deluge, from which came *some* of the Flood waters, the climate around the Earth would be temperate even in northern latitudes, and provided enough vegetation which in turn allowed for these grazers to thrive, as is discovered.

But once these waters fell, temperatures plunged, and coupled with the "waters below", nothing would ever be the same!

We also find discrepencies in 14C readings, in organic material over 5,000 years, huge jumps in dating....what could account for it? One explanation is the Earth's atmosphere was like a greenhouse, i.e., had less cosmic rays affecting it. That would definitely effect changes in carbon decay rates.

So while you and others, when explaining these anomalies, simply say, "we don't know"... there are those of us who do.

The whole story is a myth. It may have been based upon a local very large flood, in fact there has been a very likely culprit found in the Tigris/Euphrates system. But you are right that any local flood would have lasted less than a year.

The problem with the flood is that there is no reliable evidence for it and all sorts of evidence against it. One has to deny science on a high school level to believe that flood myths.