Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood

[Jose Fly]

Please! I've explained a lot.

No, you've done what just about every internet creationist does.....make a bunch of assertions, dodge questions and requests for substantiation, leave for a while, then come back and pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

 

[SpiritualisT]

Global Flood evidence:

Yes, I heard there are proofs showing that a "flood" really happened on earth. But be very sure that this phenomena has nothing to do with any biblical record. What happened is that jews just have stolen the flood mith from pagan cultures such as from sumerians and they just converted it in a jewish version in bible. Even Noah have a correspondent in the pagan version which is maybe thousands of years older.
Ziusudra - Wikipedia

The biblical flood is not just false but it's lack of logic and real sense is actually funny. How he could create an ark where he had to put a male and a female of all the animal species in the world in? How he found all the animal species in the world (millions of them)? I remember I estimated once the ark size, and don't struggle to much to think about this because undeniable it was way to small to fit so many animals in. This story is just pathetic. Where all the water evacuated if it was "up to the sky"? How Yahve got so much water? There are no words to describe how a story like this brainwashed billions of people along the years. Actually in Middle Ev there was an excuse because one would be burned of tortured if he would deny any of the biblical dogmas. Remember that Galileo Galilei was arrested for life at home by Catholics because he said that the Sun is in the middle of our solar system. But now, what excuse have people to justify their belief in this jewish fictional story? Why did the jews became the richest people in the world while mass populace were obeying their fictional god and were blindly believing in their dogmatic lies?[/QUOTE]

 

[Audie]

Is this now become an excuse for
some sort of thing about the Jews?

 

[shunyadragon]

The Biblical thread is based on more ancient Sumarian texts, and likely was related to one or more catastrophic floods of the Tigris Euphrates River valleys. The legends of a version of the texts of these floods can be found in later Ugarit, Canaanite and Babyonian texts, and later yet the Pentateuch and the Old Testament of the Bible.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The problem with the flood is that there is no reliable evidence for it and all sorts of evidence against it. One has to deny science on a high school level to believe that flood myths.

"Evidence against it"? You mean like 'waters cover Mt. Everest'?

I explained that....there was no Mt. Everest -- at least, no 29,000-ft Mt. Everest.
In fact, the evidence of giant clams experiencing catastrophic death near Everest's summit...being marine animals...indicates Mt. Everest was under water, immediately prior to the Flood.

Probably the same with the marine fossils on the Andes, the Atlas, etc.

I say probably, because some discovered fossils could be millions of years old; but I wouldn't say all of them.

 

[shunyadragon]

"Evidence against it"? You mean like 'waters cover Mt. Everest'?

I explained that....there was no Mt. Everest -- at least, no 29,000-ft Mt. Everest.
In fact, the evidence of giant clams experiencing catastrophic death near Everest's summit...being marine animals...indicates Mt. Everest was under water, immediately prior to the Flood.

Probably the same with the marine fossils on the Andes, the Atlas, etc.

I say probably, because some discovered fossils could be millions of years old; but I wouldn't say all of them.

I am a geologist and there is absolutely no evidence of water covering these mountains and the marine animal fossils are in ancient folded and faulted limestone formations, which extend in and through the interior of the mountains. I have not been to Everest, but I have been to the Andes, and mountain ranges in Tibet and China as geologist.

There is also absolutely no evidence of flood deposited materials on these mountains. Hint to the self imposed ignorant: Limestone is not deposited in floods, and it is deposited in shallow seas like around Bermuda, and full of coral reefs.

How do they know these are continuous rock formations through the interior of the mountains? They have drilled cores in the mountains.

You persist in this foolishness despite being corrected before.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"Evidence against it"? You mean like 'waters cover Mt. Everest'?

I explained that....there was no Mt. Everest -- at least, no 29,000-ft Mt. Everest.
In fact, the evidence of giant clams experiencing catastrophic death near Everest's summit...being marine animals...indicates Mt. Everest was under water, immediately prior to the Flood.

Probably the same with the marine fossils on the Andes, the Atlas, etc.

I say probably, because some discovered fossils could be millions of years old; but I wouldn't say all of them.

Incredibly ignorant misinterpretation of what one sees is not evidence. I have gone over the fact that you do not know what is and what is not evidence and offered to help you to learn. Since this is a scientific discussion we need to use scientific evidence:

Scientific evidence - Wikipedia

"Scientific evidence is evidence which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical evidence and interpretation in accordance with scientific method. Standards for scientific evidence vary according to the field of inquiry, but the strength of scientific evidence is generally based on the results of statistical analysis and the strength of scientific controls."


The core of science: Relating evidence and ideas


"evidence
Test results and/or observations that may either help support or help refute a scientific idea. In general, raw data are considered evidence only once they have been interpreted in a way that reflects on the accuracy of a scientific idea."

The second source says the same as the first, but at a simpler level. To have scientific evidence you first need a testable hypothesis. That means you need a hypothesis that can be shown to be wrong. If you do not know of a reasonable test that could possibly show your idea to be wrong by definition you do not have evidence. You only have an ad hoc explanation.

Now let's see what we would observe if all the fossils, such as the ones on top of Mt Everest, were from a flood. First off we would not see fossils beds miles thick. There is far too much life in the fossils to be from one event. If you look at how much life there is right now and imagine it all dead it would only form one thin layer, whether land or sea life. But we see thousands of feet of fossil bearing rock. Not only that those fossils are sorted. We do not see Cambrian fossils mixed with Jurassic ones. Flood waters leave unsorted deposits. They can't even sort sediments, much less fossils. Flood believers have no explanation at all on how sorting occurs since it is not based upon size. It is based upon species. And back to the numbers, in one formation alone, the Karoo Supergroup, there are an estimated 800 billion land vertebrate fossils with the average size of a sheep. Over 30,000 fossils have been harvested from that area and since one can only get fossils at outcroppings that means there are still many many times that many within the formation. That is in just one area. There is no problem explaining these, once again sorted by age fossils, if there are hundreds of millions of years of deposition. There is no explanation if one has a flood.

Why South Africa's Karoo is a palaeontological wonderland

 

[SpiritualisT]

[QUOTE="Hockeycowboy, post: 5863396, member: 5869]
These arguments have already been taken apart...I'm not gonna repeat myself.
[/QUOTE]​

You explained a potential historical "flood". Is just hilarious to believe that it was a biblical flood when you have all the evidence possible that it was stolen from ancient older pagan texts. This you can't deny because Is too obvious, in rest you can bring all the proofs in the world to sustain this flood because it has nothing to do with the biblical stories. This was the main point of what I was trying to say.

 

[Jose Fly]

I explained that....there was no Mt. Everest -- at least, no 29,000-ft Mt. Everest.
In fact, the evidence of giant clams experiencing catastrophic death near Everest's summit...being marine animals...indicates Mt. Everest was under water, immediately prior to the Flood.

Probably the same with the marine fossils on the Andes, the Atlas, etc.

I say probably, because some discovered fossils could be millions of years old; but I wouldn't say all of them.

This is likely the primary issue here. You apparently think the above constitutes an "explanation", when really it's nothing more than a series of vague, empty assertions. Until you understand the difference, the conversation (or whatever it is) will continue going in the same circles ad nausuem.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

......you have all the evidence possible that it was stolen from ancient older pagan texts............

Since the pagan or non-biblical texts are post-flood as per Scriptural dating, then it is who stole what from whom.
Those non-biblical texts most all worldwide connect a flood to the survival of just a few people, as does the Bible.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You explained a potential historical "flood". Is just hilarious to believe that it was a biblical flood when you have all the evidence possible that it was stolen from ancient older pagan texts. This you can't deny because Is too obvious, in rest you can bring all the proofs in the world to sustain this flood because it has nothing to do with the biblical stories. This was the main point of what I was trying to say.

It wasn't "stolen", lol! I've never read in any ancient flood myth, the exact dimensions of the Ark as recorded in Genesis.

And those dimensions are ideal for the type of vessel Noah built.
Do you get that? It's been subjected to study, and found perfectly seaworthy!

Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’

....As opposed to, say, the boat in the Epic of Gilgamesh. 120-cubit cubed box. Lol.

 

[Jedster]

It wasn't "stolen", lol! I've never read in any ancient flood myth, the exact dimensions of the Ark as recorded in Genesis.

And those dimensions are ideal for the type of vessel Noah built.
Do you get that? It's been subjected to study, and found perfectly seaworthy!

Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’

....As opposed to, say, the boat in the Epic of Gilgamesh. 120-cubit cubed box. Lol.

I used to have book(Hindu) about a great flood. I can't find it now, but found this on the web.
"In 1872, the amateur Assyriologist, George Smith, made a discovery that would shock the world. Whilst studying a particular tablet from the ancient Mesopotamian city of Nineveh, he comes across a story that many would have been familiar with. When Smith succeeded in deciphering the text, he realized that the tablet contained an ancient Mesopotamian myth that paralleled the story of Noah’s Ark from the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament"

Full article at Startling Similarity between Hindu Flood Legend of Manu and the Biblical Account of Noah


ETA I have not read through the whole of this thread, so excuse me if it has already been mentioned.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It wasn't "stolen", lol! I've never read in any ancient flood myth, the exact dimensions of the Ark as recorded in Genesis.

And those dimensions are ideal for the type of vessel Noah built.
Do you get that? It's been subjected to study, and found perfectly seaworthy!

Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’

....As opposed to, say, the boat in the Epic of Gilgamesh. 120-cubit cubed box. Lol.

There is nothing there that says that the dimensions of the Ark are perfect. All you can show is that an understocked Ark would float. You still have no evidence for the Ark.

 

[SpiritualisT]

It wasn't "stolen", lol! I've never read in any ancient flood myth, the exact dimensions of the Ark as recorded in Genesis.

And those dimensions are ideal for the type of vessel Noah built.
Do you get that? It's been subjected to study, and found perfectly seaworthy!

....As opposed to, say, the boat in the Epic of Gilgamesh. 120-cubit cubed box. Lol.

Is ridiculous to believe that that a person which do not appear in the documented history (Noah) have gathered one male and one female of 35.000 species of animals, put all of them in a wooden ark which was 150 meters long and 25 meters wide (let's count this 3 times because if I remember well, bible say the ark had 3 levels) and have saved all of them from a flood still created by a god which you pretend that loves everyone. I guess Yahve made the tiger not to attack the deer or Yahve made the lion not to attack the antelope or other illogical things which only bible can create. And if you want to justify yourself by "scientific research", read again the first link you gave me and find out that the science doesn't support the biblical tales about floods. indeed are only tales. Also, find out that scientific research revealed that nowadays there are over 6 millions of animal species. How did 35.000 species of animals evolved in millions in a few thousands of years?
And relax, I don't say the sumerian or whichever version of the flood is true, rather I think the pagan versions are metaphorical. Since Christianity is not a pagan religion, of course it has stolen this from pagans, exactly in the same way like they did with other pagan concepts and signs like the cross of the death and resurrection of Christ. You should better think more logic rather than having blind faith in some jewish stories yet even corrupted from other religions.

 

[Looncall]

Since the pagan or non-biblical texts are post-flood as per Scriptural dating, then it is who stole what from whom.
Those non-biblical texts most all worldwide connect a flood to the survival of just a few people, as does the Bible.

So why is there no physical evidence for your flood? How did several sophisticated civilizations live through it without noticing it?

Scriptural dating? Ha, ha, what a joke. Those societies have been dated using science, not pathetic superstition.

Religionists make themselves look hilariously stupid with this kind of guff.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Is ridiculous to believe that that a person which do not appear in the documented history (Noah) have gathered one male and one female of 35.000 species of animals, put all of them in a wooden ark which was 150 meters long and 25 meters wide (let's count this 3 times because if I remember well, bible say the ark had 3 levels) and have saved all of them from a flood still created by a god which you pretend that loves everyone. I guess Yahve made the tiger not to attack the deer or Yahve made the lion not to attack the antelope or other illogical things which only bible can create. And if you want to justify yourself by "scientific research", read again the first link you gave me and find out that the science doesn't support the biblical tales about floods. indeed are only tales. Also, find out that scientific research revealed that nowadays there are over 6 millions of animal species. How did 35.000 species of animals evolved in millions in a few thousands of years?
And relax, I don't say the sumerian or whichever version of the flood is true, rather I think the pagan versions are metaphorical. Since Christianity is not a pagan religion, of course it has stolen this from pagans, exactly in the same way like they did with other pagan concepts and signs like the cross of the death and resurrection of Christ. You should better think more logic rather than having blind faith in some jewish stories yet even corrupted from other religions.

Your objections are based on false assumptions.

The Genesis account says nothing about Noah “getting” the animals...in fact, it says the creatures “came to” Noah. (Genesis 7:15).

Was this an honest misunderstanding? You conveniently ignored the evidence of the Ark’s construction, built with those ideal dimensions favoring its seaworthiness. So I doubt your honesty.

If you’re going to disingenuously twist what the account actually says, there’s no basis for a reasonable discussion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your objections are based on false assumptions.

The Genesis account says nothing about Noah “getting” the animals...in fact, it says the creatures “came to” Noah. (Genesis 7:15).

Was this an honest misunderstanding? You conveniently ignored the evidence of the Ark’s construction, built with those ideal dimensions favoring its seaworthiness. So I doubt your honesty.

If you’re going to disingenuously twist what the account actually says, there’s no basis for a reasonable discussion.

Yes, it does. So how did animal cross oceans and continents to get to the understocked Ark? You have found one small flaw in someone's argument against the Flood myth. Yet you can't even begin to address the massive holes that there are in the story.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

There is nothing there that says that the dimensions of the Ark are perfect.

Oh, so now you’re a naval architect?

Dr. Soon Won Hong, from KRISO Institute in South Korea, states otherwise:

WWF: Korean Safety Paper

Excerpts:
“When we took the weighted average including overturning stability, such as seakeeping safety 4, structural safety 4 and overturning safety 2, we derived the total safety index as shown in Figure 9. These results also showed that the Ark had superior safety compared to the other hull forms.”
::::::::::::::
“In conclusion, the Ark as a drifting ship, is thus believed to have had a reasonable-beam-draft ratio for the safety of the hull, crew and cargo in the high winds and waves imposed on it by the Genesis Flood.

The voyage limit of the Ark, estimated from modern passenger ships' criteria reveals that it could have navigated sea conditions with waves higher than 30 metres.”

Again, how did Noah (and Moses, who wrote the account), know?

Only modern shipbuilders, within the last two centuries, have discovered that these dimensions are perfect for just such a non-powered, rudderless vessel.

Gotta love it!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Yes, it does. So how did animal cross oceans and continents to get to the understocked Ark? You have found one small flaw in someone's argument against the Flood myth. Yet you can't even begin to address the massive holes that there are in the story.

I have to laugh...does the explanation really elude you?

How would the animals ever ‘come to’ Noah, in the first place? You think, maybe, Jehovah God had something to do with that?

So is it so hard to understand, that He would also disperse the creatures, distributing them to their current habitats?

It was a Divinely-inspired event to begin with!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh, so now you’re a naval architect?

Dr. Soon Won Hong, from KRISO Institute in South Korea, states otherwise:

WWF: Korean Safety Paper

Excerpts:
“When we took the weighted average including overturning stability, such as seakeeping safety 4, structural safety 4 and overturning safety 2, we derived the total safety index as shown in Figure 9. These results also showed that the Ark had superior safety compared to the other hull forms.”
::::::::::::::
“In conclusion, the Ark as a drifting ship, is thus believed to have had a reasonable-beam-draft ratio for the safety of the hull, crew and cargo in the high winds and waves imposed on it by the Genesis Flood.

The voyage limit of the Ark, estimated from modern passenger ships' criteria reveals that it could have navigated sea conditions with waves higher than 30 metres.”

Again, how did Noah (and Moses, who wrote the account), know?

Only modern shipbuilders, within the last two centuries, have discovered that these dimensions are perfect for just such a non-powered, rudderless vessel.

Gotta love it!

Bogus sources are not evidence. That was written for AiG a lying source. It cannot be found outside of creationist sources.


Try again.