Evil in the world and God

[Revoltingest]

What free will does a child have when they are being abused? Does God put the free will of the abuser above the free will of the child?

All these constructs about God or gods require ad hoc
modification, eg, adding Satan to explain evil. And then
they must face God creating Satan. Ultimately, it all
collapses, & can only be justified with the desperate...
"God works in mysterious ways."

(IMO)

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

All these constructs about God or gods require ad hoc
modification, eg, adding Satan to explain evil. And then
they must face God creating Satan. Ultimately, it all
collapses, & can only be justified with the desperate...
"God works in mysterious ways."

(IMO)

Yeah, but if everything is objective real in the objective reality how come we have subjective good and bad. It is the same problem in other terms.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, but if everything is objective real in the objective reality how come we have subjective good and bad. It is the same problem in other terms.

Subjectively, objectification of the subjective is objectively
a subjective process to objectify the subjective object.
If so, why not, eh.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Subjectively, objectification of the subjective is objectively
a subjective process to objectify the subjective object.
If so, why not, eh.

Yeah, words are funny and mine are reasonable and yours are not. But that is both objective and subjective depending on how the words are understood. And which opinions are reasonable for what opinion is used about reasonable and in circles we go.
So reductio ad absurdum you are reasonable and I am not or so in reverse.
Do you grok it now?

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, words are funny and mine are reasonable and yours are not.

Oh, great & powerful one, arbiter of what is reasonable,
your unworthy servant would never dare disagree.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Oh, great & powerful one, arbiter of what is reasonable,
your unworthy servant would never dare disagree.

Yeah, that works for us both as that including when a compromise is a compromise. Grok it now?

 

[paarsurrey]

"Evil in the world and God"

"God has nothing to do with the evil in the world.", please, right?

Most of evil on this planet earth is because of humans. God gave humans free will. starvation could stop tomorrow if all humans cooperated.

I believe God gave us free will because God is loving. God do not want someone to be forced to love him.

I also believe this life is also a test. Like a school for the soul. To learn lessions. This worrld is full of contradictions because to know what goodness is, the opposite must exist. to know what is hot, you have to know how cold it is. if the world was only goodness then this life would not be a test and our soul would not learn so much

Do you agree or disagree? Any thoughts?

Life is a test, I agree with one here, there clear verses in Quran to this affect, right?:

67:1-3
67:1
بِسۡمِ اللّٰہِ الرَّحۡمٰنِ الرَّحِیۡمِ ﴿۱﴾
English - Sher Ali
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
67:2
تَبٰرَکَ الَّذِیۡ بِیَدِہِ الۡمُلۡکُ ۫ وَہُوَ عَلٰی کُلِّ شَیۡءٍ قَدِیۡرُ ﴿۲﴾
English - Sher Ali
Blessed is He in Whose hand is the kingdom, and He has power over all things;
67:3
ۣالَّذِیۡ خَلَقَ الۡمَوۡتَ وَالۡحَیٰوۃَ لِیَبۡلُوَکُمۡ اَیُّکُمۡ اَحۡسَنُ عَمَلًا ؕ وَہُوَ الۡعَزِیۡزُ الۡغَفُوۡرُ ۙ﴿۳﴾
English - Sher Ali
Who has created death and life that He might try you — which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Most Forgiving.

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search​

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.
www.alislam.org
Ayah al-Mulk (The Sovereignty, Control, The Kingdom) 67:1
Right?

Isaiah 45:7

Isaiah 45:7
7Who forms light and creates darkness, Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Who makes all these.

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15976/jewish/Chapter-45.htm

"Overly simplistic logic might lead one to believe that if G‑d is by definition good, than evil must be a force opposing and independent of G‑d. Such a conclusion, however, would leads to a dichotomy utterly incompatible with monotheism. To believe in an independent evil, whether in the form of a god of evil, as in Zoroastrianism, or in the form of a rebellious angel (devil), as in Christianity, is always a form of polytheism and is utterly rejected in Jewish theology.

Judaism recognizes only one G‑d who is the source of the totality of existence, whether we perceive it as good or as evil. As the Prophet states, “I form light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil, I am G‑d, I do all these things.” (Isaiah 45:7). Evil is created ex nihilo just as is the rest of the creation. However, it is created not for its own sake, but only as an instrument of free choice and is tolerated to the extent that it serves its purpose. Of course, we are thus faced with another theological problem: how can evil emanate from G‑d who is all good? To resolve this difficulty, we must carefully define the concept of evil."

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/310893/jewish/A-Deeper-Look.htm

Does it help, please?

Regards

 

[dybmh]

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/310893/jewish/A-Deeper-Look.htm Does it help, please?

I love Chabad, and they taught me virtually everything I know. But this article doesn't quite tell the whole story. It still doesn't answer why so much suffering and so much evil is permitted, or why people are drawn to evil and need to work to avoid it.

 

[Stevicus]

Most of evil on this planet earth is because of humans. God gave humans free will. starvation could stop tomorrow if all humans cooperated.

I believe God gave us free will because God is loving. God do not want someone to be forced to love him.

I also believe this life is also a test. Like a school for the soul. To learn lessions. This worrld is full of contradictions because to know what goodness is, the opposite must exist. to know what is hot, you have to know how cold it is. if the world was only goodness then this life would not be a test and our soul would not learn so much

Do you agree or disagree? Any thoughts?

I think it's impossible to define who or what "God" actually is, but if there is some sentient being who created this place and put us here to try to figure things out on our own, then it seems we've been pretty much left to our own devices. So, I can see the case being made for free will, or at least, the freedom to make choices within the limitations of biology and the physical laws which are evident in the universe. But a lot of our "will" is rooted in instincts and various biological needs and deficiencies which can override and even influence our will.

I think that's what makes the whole "free will" question a bit dicey.

Maybe this is a "test." If it is, I'm sure I flunked already.

 

[Spiderman]

Most of evil on this planet earth is because of humans. God gave humans free will. starvation could stop tomorrow if all humans cooperated.

I believe God gave us free will because God is loving. God do not want someone to be forced to love him.

I also believe this life is also a test. Like a school for the soul. To learn lessions. This worrld is full of contradictions because to know what goodness is, the opposite must exist. to know what is hot, you have to know how cold it is. if the world was only goodness then this life would not be a test and our soul would not learn so much

Do you agree or disagree? Any thoughts?

God cursed us all to be confused and born into sin and murdered everyone for sins they never committed, and the way he tortures and victimizes everyone shows he is the greatest sadist. How does that equal anything mildly close to love.

Starvation would be solved if God would tell people what to do.

A lot of food cannot reach the starving or it will decompose by the time it gets there or be seized by terrorists or military personnel who will not feed it to the starving.

God is the problem, and the loving thing to do is he step down or kill himself so that someone who is loving could have control and speak to people, tell them what to do, not let evil spirits tempt us, heal the mentally ill, not form children in the womb he knows will be aborted or turn into monsters...

 

[stvdv]

Most of evil on this planet earth is because of humans. God gave humans free will. starvation could stop tomorrow if all humans cooperated

I believe God gave us free will because God is loving. God do not want someone to be forced to love him

#MeToo

I also believe this life is also a test. Like a school for the soul. To learn lessions

#MeToo

. This worrld is full of contradictions because to know what goodness is, the opposite must exist. to know what is hot, you have to know how cold it is. if the world was only goodness then this life would not be a test and our soul would not learn so much

Makes sense

Do you agree or disagree? Any thoughts?

I think how this world works is just perfect

I think the concept of "Free Will" is genius (as is all)

Whether one agrees or disagrees with this, probably has to do with one's "Goal of Life"

 

[ChristineM]

Overly simplistic logic might lead one to believe that if G‑d is by definition good, than evil must be a force opposing and independent of G‑d

I did not write the bible, but what is written in the bible is there to see simplistic or not, thst is what it says god created evil.

 

[Revoltingest]

I did not write the bible, but what is written in the bible is there to see simplistic or not, thst is what it says god created evil.

God is by his own (per the Bible) definition "good".
But can we trust unquestioningly anyone to judge himself?
Is he honest?
Are his standards cromulent?
I prefer secular standards to the lax "He works in mysterious ways".
The results show that God is a bad cop, who can't be
trusted to investigate & clear himself of wrongdoing.

We're fortunate that he doesn't exist.
Further torment...worse tortures...would await us in his after-life.
What a sadist, eh (IMO).

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

God is by his own (per the Bible) definition "good".
But can we trust unquestioningly anyone to judge himself?
Is he honest?
Are his standards cromulent?
I prefer secular standards to the lax "He works in mysterious ways".
The results show that God is a bad cop, who can't be
trusted to investigate & clear himself of wrongdoing.

We're fortunate that he doesn't exist.
Further torment...worse tortures...would await us in his after-life.
What a sadist, eh (IMO).

I prefer a philosophical God and not a theological God and yet I am still secular.
As for the existence of God as such, I don't know and I don't care one way or the other as for knowledge.

 

[ChristineM]

God is by his own (per the Bible) definition "good".
But can we trust unquestioningly anyone to judge himself?
Is he honest?
Are his standards cromulent?
I prefer secular standards to the lax "He works in mysterious ways".
The results show that God is a bad cop, who can't be
trusted to investigate & clear himself of wrongdoing.

We're fortunate that he doesn't exist.
Further torment...worse tortures...would await us in his after-life.
What a sadist, eh (IMO).

According to Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

And i agree with you, we are indeed fortunate that a claimed genocidal maniac who condones conquest, murder, rape, slaver etc and who seems proud of created evil does not exist

 

[Revoltingest]

I prefer a philosophical God and not a theological God and yet I am still secular.
As for the existence of God as such, I don't know and I don't care one way or the other as for knowledge.

Given the vast number of gods (small "g"), & the vast number
of versions of God (capital "G"), I can say probabilistically with
high confidence that no single one exists.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Given the vast number of gods (small "g"), & the vast number
of versions of God (capital "G"), I can say probabilistically with
high confidence that no single one exists.

No, that is unknown. But then epistemology of the objective reality in itself is not your best moment.

 

[Nakosis]

Most of evil on this planet earth is because of humans. God gave humans free will. starvation could stop tomorrow if all humans cooperated.

I believe God gave us free will because God is loving. God do not want someone to be forced to love him.

I also believe this life is also a test. Like a school for the soul. To learn lessions. This worrld is full of contradictions because to know what goodness is, the opposite must exist. to know what is hot, you have to know how cold it is. if the world was only goodness then this life would not be a test and our soul would not learn so much

Do you agree or disagree? Any thoughts?

Some gods are evil.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, that is unknown. But then epistemology of the objective reality in itself is not your best moment.

Of course it's unknown. But be objective...
With thousands of claimed gods whose existence is mutually exclusive,
the probability is vanishingly small that a particular one is "True".

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Of course it's unknown. But be objective...
With thousands of claimed gods whose existence is mutually exclusive,
the probability is vanishingly small that a particular one is "True".

It is unknown for the totality of all versions of gods. In practice it is subjective as what a given person believe and I do that too. But objectively as objective reality in itself it is unknown.