Evolution and Mind/Body Dualism

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Then why did you even bring up the point that you were in conversation with someone else?

If it's irrelevant, then you shouldn't have mentioned it.

You are right, I regret mentioning it.

Actually, I'm fairly sure you would care if that were the case. A dog using a computer - let alone a dog utilizing a keyboard or constructing any kind of argument - would be a fairly remarkable thing.

Well, maybe in a hundred million years dogs will evolve the intelligence to do so...after all, humans are apes, and we did, right?

Which is irrelevant. So why did you bring it up? Why does it matter who you were addressing initially?

You know what, it doesn't matter.

I did answer your analogy, and I am continuing to answer your analogy by making an analogy of my own that illustrate what is wrong with your analogy. If you can just answer my simple question, you will see what is wrong with your analogy and why I object to it. So, answer my question:

I dont recall. Give me the post #

How many sequential events can occur within a second?

Demonstrate how your birth can come to past if an infinite number of births preceded it and I will answer any question you may have.

 

[Sha'irullah]

DNA is another problem for naturalists, and it actually helps the ID position than it does the naturalist.

Then explain it, explain how it helps because I have a strong feeling you do not even understand DNA

 

[idav]

idav, that can't be the case, because even in the big bang theory that is when time began, and obviously the big bang was an event and therefore change DID occur. My goodness.

You don't get what timeless means. If I went into a timeless state right now and came back in 30 years. The earth would be 30 years older and I wouldn't be one second older but that doesn't mean that I don't "do" anything, just that I am outside of a realm that it matters. So to say I didn't "do" anything for 30 years isn't all together true, but is correct in a way. So it's both really, timelessness allows to do and not do at the same time. Will is not a necessary thing out of that paradox.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

You don't get what timeless means. If I went into a timeless state right now and came back in 30 years. The earth would be 30 years older and I wouldn't be one second older but that doesn't mean that I don't "do" anything, just that I am outside of a realm that it matters. So to say I didn't "do" anything for 30 years isn't all together true, but is correct in a way. So it's both really, timelessness allows to do and not do at the same time. Will is not a necessary thing out of that paradox.

No, YOU don't get what timeless mean...and the fact that you think you can go "into a timeless state right now and come back in 30 years" is evident that you apparently don't get what timeless means. Once you become temporal, you are temporal forever...there is no going in and out of time. So it would help to know about the things you are trying to "debunk".

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Then explain it, explain how it helps because I have a strong feeling you do not even understand DNA

LOL. Please tell me how you draw that conclusion?

 

[idav]

No, YOU don't get what timeless mean...and the fact that you think you can go "into a timeless state right now and come back in 30 years" is evident that you apparently don't get what timeless means. Once you become temporal, you are temporal forever...there is no going in and out of time. So it would help to know about the things you are trying to "debunk".

Your response tells me you don't know how the reality of timelessness works. If I travel for 30 years at the speed of light and come back it will be as if I didn't age and 30 years passed in spacetime. I am not talking about a hypothetical timeless state.

Time dilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sha'irullah]

LOL. Please tell me how you draw that conclusion?

Chimps have 98% of our DNA and all DNA has a lineage. Our lineage just so happens to be apes. Along with the fact we share the same ancestral chromosone which completes the Hominidae family.

Do you even science bro?

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Your response tells me you don't know how the reality of timelessness works. If I travel for 30 years at the speed of light and come back it will be as if I didn't age and 30 years passed in spacetime. I am not talking about a hypothetical timeless state.

Time dilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But you would not be "timeless" nor would you be in a state of "timelessness". You can't just rid yourself of time. There is no such thing.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Chimps have 98% of our DNA and all DNA has a lineage. Our lineage just so happens to be apes. Along with the fact we share the same ancestral chromosone which completes the Hominidae family.

Do you even science bro?

That does not prove evolution...it could very well mean we share a common designer...have you even considered that alternative, "bro".

 

[Sapiens]

That does not prove evolution...it could very well mean we share a common designer...have you even considered that alternative, "bro".

Yeah, but I rejected it along with Zeus, Jupiter, Isis, Gilgamesh, the Pink Unicorn and a whole bunch of other fairy tales.

 

[Sha'irullah]

That does not prove evolution...it could very well mean we share a common designer...have you even considered that alternative, "bro".

A common designer? What on earth is that?
Now you are making things up, this just proves our relation to apes

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Yeah, but I rejected it along with Zeus, Jupiter, Isis, Gilgamesh, the Pink Unicorn and a whole bunch of other fairy tales.

So, you reject Jesus Christ??

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

A common designer? What on earth is that?
Now you are making things up, this just proves our relation to apes

What is our common ancestor?

 

[Sha'irullah]

What is our common ancestor?

I would not go about saying that in a singular states but our common ancestor is apes and more specifically chimpanzees.

 

[Sapiens]

If an alien xenobiologist landed and classified humans, on any basis, we'd be one of three species of chimpanzee.

 

[idav]

If an alien xenobiologist landed and classified humans, on any basis, we'd be one of three species of chimpanzee.

Likely one of the dumber weaker chimps.

 

[Sapiens]

Clearly weaker.

 

[Riverwolf]

As If what I said was inaccurate...I said that voodoo is some "unnatural" stuff, and I could care less the politically correct way to describe it...for example, having dolls made in human likeness at which if you stab the doll, you stab the human that it resembles (Childs Play) is "unnatural", and it is voodoo, thus "unnatural stuff".

I understand you wanted to showcase your knowledge, but don't make it seem as if what I said was incorrect or something.

What you said is incorrect. Voodoo is a religion. The whole doll stabbing thing is a very fringe part of its practice, associated with their equivalent to what we'd call sorcerers. Saying it's a major part of their religion is like saying Merlin is a major Christian figure.

It's not politically correct. It's simply correct. Your frequent use of it is incorrect. Voodoo is no more unnatural than Christianity.

LOL you made a post to me, at which you quoted me telling another person to "answer the infinity/birth analogy".

Relevant to something I posted.

I will recognize the possibility that Im wrong when you can demonstrate how I am wrong..which you've failed to do thus far.

I have done so many times, but because you don't believe that you could possibly be wrong, you can't see it.

Besides, even if my arguments were weak, that's no indication that yours is any more or less valid.

Basically, you are using time to fill in the gaps. Same thing. You are basically saying "given enough time, anything could happen"...thus; "time of the gaps".

Seems pretty simple to me.

And completely wrong. That's not at all what's being said or argued.

I don't know...it doesn't look like any dog I ever saw, or any cat that I ever saw. I don't know.

Well, guess what?

It's a canid: that is, a canine. It's closest other relatives are foxes. It's called a raccoon dog, or tanuki. But it sure doesn't look like one.

Therefore, using what an animal looks like is completely useless in determining what it is in relation to other animals. Furthermore, the name. Is it a raccoon or a dog? Well, neither. It's also not a true fox, despite being more closely related to them than wolves.

That's why we don't use "dog". The scientific names for animals bypass local and common names, in favor of a set standard that's used by all biologists all over the world, regardless of native language and vernacular.

Oh, and if you've never seen the actual animal, I'm sure you've at least seen one of its most well-known depictions (besides the one I probably shouldn't show here in the public forums...):

 

[Riverwolf]

Yeah, but I rejected it along with Zeus, Jupiter, Isis, Gilgamesh, the Pink Unicorn and a whole bunch of other fairy tales.

Hey, as a polytheist, I resent having the Gods compared to a Great Hero, or pink varieties of a biologically plausible-if nonexistent-in-the-fossil-record animal. (At least you didn't put "invisible", making it impossible to be any color at all. ^_^)

 

[Riverwolf]

Not at all...the problem is complicated enough...I will ask you the same thing I asked others on here (and they have also failed to give an adequate answer). So for example...

Just take the event of your birth. In order for you to be born, your parents had to come in to contact right? But in order for your parents to come in to contact, your grandparents had to come in to contact...and in order for your grandparents to come into contact, your great-grandparents had to come into contact, and so on, and so forth...

Now, if that chain can be extended into eternity past, then the chain itself is infinitely long, right? But it is obvious that if the chain itself is infinitely long, then the point of your birth could never come to past, because in order for any person in the chain to be born, an infinite amount of parents had to be born in order to "reach" any parent.

So if the past is eternal, to reach the moment of your birth, infinity would have to have been traversed..but infinity cannot be traversed in that manner, just like it can't be traversed if I asked you to count to infinity...you would never reach "infinity" as a final destination, any more than your birth could be "reached" as a destination if there were an infinite number of births which preceded yours.

See how that works?

No, because there is a model wherein a traversal with no start or end is possible: a closed shape.

Furthermore, time is not a constant; it fluctuates based on several factors, including gravity. Heck, let me blow your mind: if you went exactly the speed of light, time for you would stop altogether; if you went faster than the speed of light, you'd go back in time.

Finally, the Tree of Life does not extend infinitely to the past.

Now consider the universe as a whole...it is in a constant state of change...if the past is eternal, then no change X could ever occur, because for every change X, an infinite amount of changes would have had to occur in order to reach the present change X...but that can't be possible any more than your birth would be possible should an infinite number of births preceded yours.

I fail to see how it's impossible, since I fail to see where you get this idea that anything has to be "traversed", in the first place.

So for example, hypothetically speaking, if Adam was the first human, as many humans that were born after Adam, the humans that were born between Adam and the very last baby born today is STILL a finite number...since there was a beginning...a start of the "chain".

There is no chain. It's a tree, not a chain.

This is a big philosophical problem for you and those that hold your view...

No it's not.

and as I keep stressing, it doesn't matter what any mathematician, biologists, physicists, cosmologists say...there had to have been a beginning of all beginnings, and that is exactly why Genesis 1:1 states "IN THE BEGINNING".

No, it says that for the same reason that many fairy tales begin with "once upon a time".