Evolution, Atheism, and Religious Beliefs

[Audie]

"Wastingtime, energy, and supplies on art, star gazing, ritual, and so forth is a huge disadvantage for a weak species trying to survive among many strong ones. Evolution is also a natural process whereas consciousness is something that questions, manipulates, and goes against it. Just the fact that we observe and experience times shows that consciousness is outside of the material world.** Not to mention the way higher consciousness occured was completely contrary to darwinian evolution. It came on extraordinarily fast, into an already evolved species, across the entire species at once, and continues to evolve uniquely in each individual."


!

Not that this is my conversation, but maybe a thought or two-

"Wastingtime, energy, and supplies on art, star gazing, ritual, and so forth is a huge disadvantage for a weak species trying to survive among many strong ones"

I have to agree, if this were to be the case, it would
turn out very badly.

Yet overall.people did survive quite well while doing these things. So obviously there was a surplus of time / energy / food that made this possible.

Im not sure where the problem comes in. You also
see animals doing nothjing in particular for long
periods of time.

"Evolution is also a natural process whereas consciousness is something that questions, manipulates, and goes against it."


I know you think this is so but I do not see that
there is any actual evidence for it.

"Not to mention the way higher consciousness occured was completely contrary to darwinian evolution. It came on extraordinarily fast, into an already evolved species, across the entire species at once, and continues to evolve..."



Is it? I dont think this view is widely held, due to
a lack of adequate evidence. I dont see anything
contrary to ToE. (forget the "darwinian" yah?)

IF of course, you could actually show that something
occurs contrary to and in violation of Toe would
be in line for a Nobel.

 

[1137]

And thanks for your philosophical and life advice, but I'm really not in the market for any. As I indicated, I've found a worldview that has worked quite well for me.

Ah at least the problem is clear. You're out for comfort and I'm out for truth. Fair enough but very incompatible goals.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Haha, plenty of species use tools and hunt without higher consciousness.

How many knap arrowheads and build bows? That is what our consciousness is used for.

I've talked to you many times and believe you to be rather intelligent, yet now you claim you can't see how a nights watchmen in the wilderness focusing on the stars instead of looking for predators is an evolutionary disadvantage? Experience tells me you're intentionally playing unintelligent because you don't have a better point.

You can't see how human intelligence has made our species so successful? Seriously?

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Ah at least the problem is clear. You're out for comfort and I'm out for truth. Fair enough but very incompatible goals.

What about other species that partake in play? Dolphins jump out of the water and entertain themselves. Bear cubs wrestle with each other. Chimps even sit down and stare at the sky in wonder.

 

[1137]

How many knap arrowheads and build bows? That is what our consciousness is used for.

Ohhh so now you're flipping and accept our Consciousness IS different than that in other beings. Hmmmm....

You can't see how human intelligence has made our species so successful? Seriously?

Oh I can, but it violates darwinian evolution. That's the point. Everything about that higher intelligence we have does. I think you're catching on.

What about other species that partake in play? Dolphins jump out of the water and entertain themselves. Bear cubs wrestle with each other. Chimps even sit down and stare at the sky in wonder.

Um... Even human babies do this before higher consciosness develops so....

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Ohhh so now you're flipping and accept our Consciousness IS different than that in other beings. Hmmmm....

Ahh, so you are ignoring the selective advantage that our consciousness and intelligence provides us. Hmmm . . . .

Oh I can, but it violates darwinian evolution. That's the point. Everything about that higher intelligence we have does.

The selective advantage that our intelligence provides refutes your claims.

 

[Audie]

Ahh, so you are ignoring the selective advantage that our consciousness and intelligence provides us. Hmmm . . . .



The selective advantage that our intelligence provides refutes your claims.

Of course, if you are arguing against an idee fixe that has a central role
in a person's construct of the nature of reality, and it is in no way evidence-based, you are arguing against the clouds, figuratively, that is, speaking.

 

[1137]

Ahh, so you are ignoring the selective advantage that our consciousness and intelligence provides us. Hmmm . . . .

The selective advantage that our intelligence provides refutes your claims.

No, you're ignoring it by pretending our consciousness is on par with all life lol. Cool, so what other species had consciousness come in way after their physiological development? What other species had higher consciousness arise across the already existent species at basically the same time? What other things in nature can willfully go against nature? And can I see all these advanced species with art, culture language, technology, written texts, etc?

Now, can you show me a species that is easily distracted or wastes their resources which has fitness? What day time species has survived because it looked at the stars instead of at predators? Which survived because they used their resources on decorations or buriap goods instead of for their benefit? Or better yet, why not just address the fact that materialism is probably the least philosophically valid and scientifically supported position out there?

 

[1137]

Not that this is my conversation, but maybe a thought or two-

"Wastingtime, energy, and supplies on art, star gazing, ritual, and so forth is a huge disadvantage for a weak species trying to survive among many strong ones"

I have to agree, if this were to be the case, it would
turn out very badly.

Yet overall.people did survive quite well while doing these things. So obviously there was a surplus of time / energy / food that made this possible.

Im not sure where the problem comes in. You also
see animals doing nothjing in particular for long
periods of time.

"Evolution is also a natural process whereas consciousness is something that questions, manipulates, and goes against it."


I know you think this is so but I do not see that
there is any actual evidence for it.

"Not to mention the way higher consciousness occured was completely contrary to darwinian evolution. It came on extraordinarily fast, into an already evolved species, across the entire species at once, and continues to evolve..."



Is it? I dont think this view is widely held, due to
a lack of adequate evidence. I dont see anything
contrary to ToE. (forget the "darwinian" yah?)

IF of course, you could actually show that something
occurs contrary to and in violation of Toe would
be in line for a Nobel.

Curious, a materialist denying known science like cognitive therapy and the UPR. Imagine that!

 

[1137]

Of course, if you are arguing against an idee fixe that has a central role
in a person's construct of the nature of reality, and it is in no way evidence-based, you are arguing against the clouds, figuratively, that is, speaking.

Very true, though I can't seem to stop arguing with you materialists nonetheless sadly. Even after a decade of asking for reason and evidence and getting none I still somehow act like you guys are more valid than creationists or flat earthers. Wtf is my deal lol.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

No, you're ignoring it by pretending our consciousness is on par with all life lol.

Nowhere did I ever say that. I am saying that our intelligence gives us a selective advantage, which you continue to ignore.

Now, can you show me a species that is easily distracted or wastes their resources which has fitness? What day time species has survived because it looked at the stars instead of at predators? Which survived because they used their resources on decorations or buriap goods instead of for their benefit? Or better yet, why not just address the fact that materialism is probably the least philosophically valid and scientifically supported position out there?

You are ignoring the benefit that intelligence provides which far outweighs any detrimental effects it has.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Very true, though I can't seem to stop arguing with you materialists nonetheless sadly. Even after a decade of asking for reason and evidence and getting none I still somehow act like you guys are more valid than creationists or flat earthers. Wtf is my deal lol.

You may want to take a look at the Evolution v. Creationism forum where I have started more than one thread on the evidence for evolution.

 

[Audie]

Curious, a materialist denying known science like cognitive therapy and the UPR. Imagine that!

The "known" science backing your ideas is apparently
known only to you, as you fail to supply it.

I could, btw, think of names to call you biu it is kind of rude,
dont you think?

 

[Audie]

Very true, though I can't seem to stop arguing with you materialists nonetheless sadly. Even after a decade of asking for reason and evidence and getting none I still somehow act like you guys are more valid than creationists or flat earthers. Wtf is my deal lol.

As you cannot produce datum point one to support your
rather outlandish pronouncements, what is left to you but the
gradeschool game of "i am rubber, you are glue"?

Wtf is my deal lol.

Answered above.

 

[Audie]

You may want to take a look at the Evolution v. Creationism forum where I have started more than one thread on the evidence for evolution.

How's about some evidence for creationism from someone, for a change?

This has gotten dreadfully one sided.

 

[Audie]

Nowhere did I ever say that. I am saying that our intelligence gives us a selective advantage, which you continue to ignore.


.

Now, now, if you deny the right to make things up, what is left?

 

[1137]

Nowhere did I ever say that. I am saying that our intelligence gives us a selective advantage, which you continue to ignore.

Haha you've literally said we're just like other animals where I've been arguing that we obviously aren't. I don't blame you for moving those goal posts but c'mon.

You are ignoring the benefit that intelligence provides which far outweighs any detrimental effects it has.

Perfect! So when the entire tribe is destroyed by nocturnal animals because the watchmen were looking at the stars, how did consciousness continue to evolve in the time supposedly needed?

You may want to take a look at the Evolution v. Creationism forum where I have started more than one thread on the evidence for evolution.

Oh I know there's far more support for evolution than creationism, I accepted evolution a long time ago. I just meant creationism is better founded and more skeptical than materialism.

The "known" science backing your ideas is apparently
known only to you, as you fail to supply it.

Today I learned I'm the only one in the world aware of cognitive therapy or the Upper Paleolithic Revolution! The depths materialists sink to, my gods!!!!

As you cannot produce datum point one to support your
rather outlandish pronouncements, what is left to you but the
gradeschool game of "i am rubber, you are glue"?

Wtf is my deal lol.

Answered above.

Hahahhahahahahahahahahahaha. See above.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Haha you've literally said we're just like other animals where I've been arguing that we obviously aren't. I don't blame you for moving those goal posts but c'mon.

Are you arguing that our intelligence does not give us a selective advantage? Yes or no?

Oh I know there's far more support for evolution than creationism, I accepted evolution a long time ago. I just meant creationism is better founded and more skeptical than materialism.

Based on what examples?

Today I learned I'm the only one in the world aware of cognitive therapy or the Upper Paleolithic Revolution! The depths materialists sink to, my gods!!!!

You mean the Paleolithic Revolution that was driven by human intelligence?

 

[Audie]

Haha you've literally said we're just like other animals where I've been arguing that we obviously aren't. I don't blame you for moving those goal posts but c'mon.



Perfect! So when the entire tribe is destroyed by nocturnal animals because the watchmen were looking at the stars, how did consciousness continue to evolve in the time supposedly needed?



Oh I know there's far more support for evolution than creationism, I accepted evolution a long time ago. I just meant creationism is better founded and more skeptical than materialism.



Today I learned I'm the only one in the world aware of cognitive therapy or the Upper Paleolithic Revolution! The depths materialists sink to, my gods!!!!



Hahahhahahahahahahahahahaha. See above.

You've a definite knack for misrepresenting, but without that, along with snark and making things up, you have little to say.

This passage below for example..

Nothing in it is contrary to ToE, whatever silly scenario you make up.
"Extraordinary" is of course, a wonderful word to equivocate with.
Along with the "already evolved". Or, "at once".



And you made up the thing about continuing to evolve, tho
no doubt you can equivocate your way into or our of most anything.


"Not to mention the way higher consciousness occured was completely contrary to darwinian evolution. It came on extraordinarily fast, into an already evolved species, across the entire species at once, and continues to evolve...

"Today I learned I'm the only one in the world aware of cognitive therapy or the Upper Paleolithic Revolution!"

Nah. If that is how you learn, no wonder you are so confused.
You're the only one who buys your fanciful version of events. Whatever
source you started with on your loop out into lala is as dated as
your use of the word "Darwinian".

The Upper Paleolithic Revolution – New Archaeology

The Upper Paleolithic Revolution


When I was first studying archaeology, the prevailing theory was that although anatomically modern humans first emerged around 100,000 years ago, thereafter there seemed to have followed a period of around 60,000 years when the lifestyle of the modern humans changed little from that of their predecessors. It was not till around 30,000 years ago that the archaeological record reveals the emergence of technical and social advances which we modern humans can understand as fundamentally like our own. This dramatic change was known as the Upper Palaeolithic Revolution. The revolution comprised new technologies, hunting techniques, human burials and an artistic tradition of astonishing competency.

However, the last 15 years have seen a shift in our understanding away from the view of a dramatic change and toward a more gradual evolution of primitive to modern huma

 

[Audie]

Ah at least the problem is clear. You're out for comfort and I'm out for truth. Fair enough but very incompatible goals.

Truth being defined as whatever you make up?