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Evolution & Creationism are both Faith & Supernatural based

Dan Mellis

Thorsredballs
You need to answer the question for me to show you by steps. But I'll go ahead & show you by explanation. Esp because you have been exceedingly kind & helpful to me this my first day.

I'll do my best to make this clearly understandable.

If an evolutionist doesn't believe in eternal existence. They have a huge problem. They have to explain the origin of the original energy w/o using Faith or Supernatural & it coming into existence from nothing. See that takes both Faith & Supernatural. Science law says something can't come from nothing! Again that proves its using Faith & Supernatural.

Now if they believe in eternal existence. Then what is the difference between them & creationist & believing in an eternal God. Both are using Faith & Supernatural to explain eternal existence whether it be energy or God. So then the question becomes Why do they then have such a problem believing in an eternal existent God & their eternal existent energy or Faith or Supernatural that produced that energy from nothing.

They both come from the same place no matter how or where you cut it.

All of it comes from Faith & Supernatural ultimate Base from the start!

I hope I explained this well enough.

Again my deepest appreciation to you personally for your help today! Thanks!

I don't necessarily believe in eternal existence. I don't not believe in it - I just don't know. Science doesn't say something can't come from nothing - we haven't defined what "nothing" is or if it can even exist. Before our universe, the concept of time may not have even made sense, so the term "eternal" may even be nonsensical.

The simple, honest answer to the question of eternal matter is "we don't know." Other claims are those of the God of the gaps (i don't know, so it must be god).
 
As usual you do anything & everything to distract from the FACT you can't answer my question with not one example where FUNCTIONAL DESIGN in real life can or has ever occurred w/o ID.

It's only happened by evolutions science where to admit to filtering info, doing science w/o Real science lab demonstration, using admitted brainwashing, propaganda & just so stories.

See all you have is bluster & diversion to hide behind because you can't do the one simple thing I've asked to prove evolution is scientifically possible much less its complete non sense & illogical.

Stay in your little bubble. Using more Faith & Supernatural belief than could ever have believing all the FUNCTIONAL DESIGN we see in creation could have created itself by itself by Random trial & error & not require ID like real life proves.

I can't help you see what is so obvious & full of logic, common sense & real life proof everywhere when you refuse to see it what's so plainly evident.

It's what is called casting pearls. I won't waste any more time. I have better things to do. Like find honest academic people that will honestly examine for truth. Not ignore the obvious & then just bully pulpit out of bias agenda & ignorance what's so plainly seen & even admitted to by evolutionist own words.

I'm saddened you've chosen to be that way. It's your right but it sure doesn't make you right. It just confirms all I've said sadly.

Best wishes that in the future someday you are more prepared to learn truth & what's so obvious.

I'll be around God willing unless He takes me home. I'll help once your open minded to truth. Just like 2 Dr in Engineering man was. Despite his bias like yours. He was an honest academic & kept his word. Something you refuse to do & it's your loss not mine. I just wish he were alive to tell you himself. Yet he wouldn't want to come back here from where he is spending eternity now. You could be that blessed to if you were just honest like he was. I'm sorry you aren't. Bye.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
As usual you do anything & everything to distract from the FACT you can't answer my question with not one example where FUNCTIONAL DESIGN in real life can or has ever occurred w/o ID.
Every single example of a functional design in nature. Unless you want to assert that intelligence was involved in the process, which you have to prove.

It's only happened by evolutions science where to admit to filtering info, doing science w/o Real science lab demonstration, using admitted brainwashing, propaganda & just so stories.

See all you have is bluster & diversion to hide behind because you can't do the one simple thing I've asked to prove evolution is scientifically possible much less its complete non sense & illogical.

Stay in your little bubble. Using more Faith & Supernatural belief than could ever have believing all the FUNCTIONAL DESIGN we see in creation could have created itself by itself by Random trial & error & not require ID like real life proves.

I can't help you see what is so obvious & full of logic, common sense & real life proof everywhere when you refuse to see it what's so plainly evident.

It's what is called casting pearls. I won't waste any more time. I have better things to do. Like find honest academic people that will honestly examine for truth. Not ignore the obvious & then just bully pulpit out of bias agenda & ignorance what's so plainly seen & even admitted to by evolutionist own words.

I'm saddened you've chosen to be that way. It's your right but it sure doesn't make you right. It just confirms all I've said sadly.

Best wishes that in the future someday you are more prepared to learn truth & what's so obvious.

I'll be around God willing unless He takes me home. I'll help once your open minded to truth. Just like 2 Dr in Engineering man was. Despite his bias like yours. He was an honest academic & kept his word. Something you refuse to do & it's your loss not mine. I just wish he were alive to tell you himself. Yet he wouldn't want to come back here from where he is spending eternity now. You could be that blessed to if you were just honest like he was. I'm sorry you aren't. Bye.
I see a lot of words and absolutely no proof of your claim.

Please continue to enjoy the sound of your own voice elsewhere.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
As usual you do anything & everything to distract from the FACT you can't answer my question with not one example where FUNCTIONAL DESIGN in real life can or has ever occurred w/o ID.

It's only happened by evolutions science where to admit to filtering info, doing science w/o Real science lab demonstration, using admitted brainwashing, propaganda & just so stories.

See all you have is bluster & diversion to hide behind because you can't do the one simple thing I've asked to prove evolution is scientifically possible much less its complete non sense & illogical.

You're still confusing evolution with abiogenesis.

Stay in your little bubble. Using more Faith & Supernatural belief than could ever have believing all the FUNCTIONAL DESIGN we see in creation could have created itself by itself by Random trial & error & not require ID like real life proves.

I have no idea what this means.

I can't help you see what is so obvious & full of logic, common sense & real life proof everywhere when you refuse to see it what's so plainly evident.

Don't want you to help me with anything. It's obvious you don't understand what a discussion is.

It's what is called casting pearls.

Lol

I won't waste any more time. I have better things to do. Like find honest academic people that will honestly examine for truth. Not ignore the obvious & then just bully pulpit out of bias agenda & ignorance what's so plainly seen & even admitted to by evolutionist own words.

Great now my life has no meaning....

I'm saddened you've chosen to be that way. It's your right but it sure doesn't make you right.

Doesn't make me wrong either.

It just confirms all I've said sadly.

Try saying it happily.

Best wishes that in the future someday you are more prepared to learn truth & what's so obvious.

Always prepared to learn the truth

I'll be around God willing unless He takes me home. I'll help once your open minded to truth. Just like 2 Dr in Engineering man was. Despite his bias like yours. He was an honest academic & kept his word. Something you refuse to do & it's your loss not mine. I just wish he were alive to tell you himself. Yet he wouldn't want to come back here from where he is spending eternity now. You could be that blessed to if you were just honest like he was. I'm sorry you aren't. Bye.

I don't remember giving my word to anything.
 

Dan Mellis

Thorsredballs
As usual you do anything & everything to distract from the FACT you can't answer my question with not one example where FUNCTIONAL DESIGN in real life can or has ever occurred w/o ID.

It's only happened by evolutions science where to admit to filtering info, doing science w/o Real science lab demonstration, using admitted brainwashing, propaganda & just so stories.

See all you have is bluster & diversion to hide behind because you can't do the one simple thing I've asked to prove evolution is scientifically possible much less its complete non sense & illogical.

Stay in your little bubble. Using more Faith & Supernatural belief than could ever have believing all the FUNCTIONAL DESIGN we see in creation could have created itself by itself by Random trial & error & not require ID like real life proves.

I can't help you see what is so obvious & full of logic, common sense & real life proof everywhere when you refuse to see it what's so plainly evident.

It's what is called casting pearls. I won't waste any more time. I have better things to do. Like find honest academic people that will honestly examine for truth. Not ignore the obvious & then just bully pulpit out of bias agenda & ignorance what's so plainly seen & even admitted to by evolutionist own words.

I'm saddened you've chosen to be that way. It's your right but it sure doesn't make you right. It just confirms all I've said sadly.

Best wishes that in the future someday you are more prepared to learn truth & what's so obvious.

I'll be around God willing unless He takes me home. I'll help once your open minded to truth. Just like 2 Dr in Engineering man was. Despite his bias like yours. He was an honest academic & kept his word. Something you refuse to do & it's your loss not mine. I just wish he were alive to tell you himself. Yet he wouldn't want to come back here from where he is spending eternity now. You could be that blessed to if you were just honest like he was. I'm sorry you aren't. Bye.

Putting FACT in capitals doesn't make it a fact. What you did there is made a claim - there's a better argument that the vast majority of things are made without any sort of design - if we were designed, why do we have poor eyesight that deteriorates? Why are we susceptible to diseases? Why are all of our important sensory bits centralised in our face which could be destroyed very easily? Why are our fingers easier to break than sticks? And what "intelligent" designer designed the sunfish? That thing is the most pointless waste of space that exists.

If you take into account all of the defects in the world, your intelligent designer starts to look like an incompetent tinkerer.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
As usual you do anything & everything to distract from the FACT you can't answer my question with not one example where FUNCTIONAL DESIGN in real life can or has ever occurred w/o ID.
.

Every single example of functionality *except* those made by humans (and maybe Chimps and elephants). In fact, I can go further. The *only* examples of *design* we see are on this one, small planet and are limited to the last couple of million years.

Everything else is the result of the action of natural laws without any intelligent intervention.
 
You prove it constantly. You refuse to see the proof that's so plainly obvious. Everything you use in your life that is FUNCTIONAL was FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by an ID
. I keep asking for any example that DOESNT PROVE THAT. You avoid answering it like the plaque. You divert, side step, do any & everything to not have to give me an example sans evolutions just so stories.

Take for examples Dawkins book the Blind Watchmaker. He does exactly like you do in that book. He uses all the tricks evolutionist have used that illustrate the very quotes I've given that expose the great "science" hoax it is.

What's even funnier is this. A blind man could in fact design a FUNCTIONAL watch. Why? Because he has an INTELLIGENCE that could be used to overcome the loss of sight.

What could NOT in fact happen. Is a baby or non functional mentally challenged or person in a coma or person that is incapable of using their INTELLIGENCE in any form. They could NOT DESIGN A FUNCTIONAL WATCH!

Of course, like you Dawkins avoids that truth like the plaque too. Why? Because it's so obvious & is so logical & common sense filled that to acknowledge it means he like you have to admit there is an ID. That doesn't fit with atheist worldview.

So they, like you, avoid the oh so plainly obvious no matter how obvious & sadly you claim there is no proof. When in FACT it is proven all through creation, the heavens, nature & in real life because all of it has FUNCTIONAL DESIGN which is only possible through an ID.

No person can help another see what they in their own foolishness refuse to see much less acknowledge what's so plainly in front of them.

It's a waste of time. Until you are ready to be academically emotionally & completely honest with yourself & acknowledge what's so plainly seen. That's why you can't attempt even to give me one much less many examples of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN that didn't require an ID unless you use the hoax of evolutions just so stories. Because other than that you have no real life examples & certainly no Real honest & truly scientific lab experiments validating that is remotely possible.

Why keep playing the dishonest game acting like you seek proof. You really don't. It's everywhere. You won't acknowledge it regardless. So admit as some evolutionist, to their credit have been honest enough to admit, they admitted, evolution is a religion & it gives them an " intellectual" way in their mind to be an " intellectual" atheists.

I call that pure foolishness. But at least they admitted to the truth of what evolution is & to its core is atheism meaning it CANT acknowledge what's so plainly obvious despite it meaning they are self deceived fools.

I'm leaving on that. Until you can actually give me a true life example of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN occurring w/o ID. Which you can't. I'm going to leave you in your self chosen blindness to the obvious.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
You prove it constantly. You refuse to see the proof that's so plainly obvious. Everything you use in your life that is FUNCTIONAL was FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by an ID
. I keep asking for any example that DOESNT PROVE THAT. You avoid answering it like the plaque. You divert, side step, do any & everything to not have to give me an example sans evolutions just so stories.

Take for examples Dawkins book the Blind Watchmaker. He does exactly like you do in that book. He uses all the tricks evolutionist have used that illustrate the very quotes I've given that expose the great "science" hoax it is.

What's even funnier is this. A blind man could in fact design a FUNCTIONAL watch. Why? Because he has an INTELLIGENCE that could be used to overcome the loss of sight.

What could NOT in fact happen. Is a baby or non functional mentally challenged or person in a coma or person that is incapable of using their INTELLIGENCE in any form. They could NOT DESIGN A FUNCTIONAL WATCH!

Of course, like you Dawkins avoids that truth like the plaque too. Why? Because it's so obvious & is so logical & common sense filled that to acknowledge it means he like you have to admit there is an ID. That doesn't fit with atheist worldview.

So they, like you, avoid the oh so plainly obvious no matter how obvious & sadly you claim there is no proof. When in FACT it is proven all through creation, the heavens, nature & in real life because all of it has FUNCTIONAL DESIGN which is only possible through an ID.

No person can help another see what they in their own foolishness refuse to see much less acknowledge what's so plainly in front of them.

It's a waste of time. Until you are ready to be academically emotionally & completely honest with yourself & acknowledge what's so plainly seen. That's why you can't attempt even to give me one much less many examples of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN that didn't require an ID unless you use the hoax of evolutions just so stories. Because other than that you have no real life examples & certainly no Real honest & truly scientific lab experiments validating that is remotely possible.

Why keep playing the dishonest game acting like you seek proof. You really don't. It's everywhere. You won't acknowledge it regardless. So admit as some evolutionist, to their credit have been honest enough to admit, they admitted, evolution is a religion & it gives them an " intellectual" way in their mind to be an " intellectual" atheists.

I call that pure foolishness. But at least they admitted to the truth of what evolution is & to its core is atheism meaning it CANT acknowledge what's so plainly obvious despite it meaning they are self deceived fools.

I'm leaving on that. Until you can actually give me a true life example of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN occurring w/o ID. Which you can't. I'm going to leave you in your self chosen blindness to the obvious.

This is pretty confusing.. Why do you care if some people believe evolution over creation mythos????
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
You prove it constantly. You refuse to see the proof that's so plainly obvious. Everything you use in your life that is FUNCTIONAL was FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by an ID
. I keep asking for any example that DOESNT PROVE THAT. You avoid answering it like the plaque. You divert, side step, do any & everything to not have to give me an example sans evolutions just so stories.

Take for examples Dawkins book the Blind Watchmaker. He does exactly like you do in that book. He uses all the tricks evolutionist have used that illustrate the very quotes I've given that expose the great "science" hoax it is.

What's even funnier is this. A blind man could in fact design a FUNCTIONAL watch. Why? Because he has an INTELLIGENCE that could be used to overcome the loss of sight.

What could NOT in fact happen. Is a baby or non functional mentally challenged or person in a coma or person that is incapable of using their INTELLIGENCE in any form. They could NOT DESIGN A FUNCTIONAL WATCH!

Of course, like you Dawkins avoids that truth like the plaque too. Why? Because it's so obvious & is so logical & common sense filled that to acknowledge it means he like you have to admit there is an ID. That doesn't fit with atheist worldview.

So they, like you, avoid the oh so plainly obvious no matter how obvious & sadly you claim there is no proof. When in FACT it is proven all through creation, the heavens, nature & in real life because all of it has FUNCTIONAL DESIGN which is only possible through an ID.

No person can help another see what they in their own foolishness refuse to see much less acknowledge what's so plainly in front of them.

It's a waste of time. Until you are ready to be academically emotionally & completely honest with yourself & acknowledge what's so plainly seen. That's why you can't attempt even to give me one much less many examples of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN that didn't require an ID unless you use the hoax of evolutions just so stories. Because other than that you have no real life examples & certainly no Real honest & truly scientific lab experiments validating that is remotely possible.

Why keep playing the dishonest game acting like you seek proof. You really don't. It's everywhere. You won't acknowledge it regardless. So admit as some evolutionist, to their credit have been honest enough to admit, they admitted, evolution is a religion & it gives them an " intellectual" way in their mind to be an " intellectual" atheists.

I call that pure foolishness. But at least they admitted to the truth of what evolution is & to its core is atheism meaning it CANT acknowledge what's so plainly obvious despite it meaning they are self deceived fools.

I'm leaving on that. Until you can actually give me a true life example of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN occurring w/o ID. Which you can't. I'm going to leave you in your self chosen blindness to the obvious.
If you want to be "academically emotionally & completely honest" you'll need to demonstrate your claims, rather than simply asserting and re-asserting them.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
I'm leaving on that. Until you can actually give me a true life example of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN occurring w/o ID. Which you can't. I'm going to leave you in your self chosen blindness to the obvious.

You are demanding something you then say can't be done then threaten to leave until it is done. I thought you were a lover of common sense and logic? lol

I'm going to leave until you provide proof of God by getting him to pass on to me Saturday's winning lotto numbers.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
You prove it constantly. You refuse to see the proof that's so plainly obvious. Everything you use in your life that is FUNCTIONAL was FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by an ID
Okay then. Prove my lungs were designed by ID.

. I keep asking for any example that DOESNT PROVE THAT. You avoid answering it like the plaque. You divert, side step, do any & everything to not have to give me an example sans evolutions just so stories.
I already told you, every single example of function in nature is an example of a function that is not a result of design unless you can prove that there was a designer.

Take for examples Dawkins book the Blind Watchmaker. He does exactly like you do in that book. He uses all the tricks evolutionist have used that illustrate the very quotes I've given that expose the great "science" hoax it is.

What's even funnier is this. A blind man could in fact design a FUNCTIONAL watch. Why? Because he has an INTELLIGENCE that could be used to overcome the loss of sight.
So, you haven't actually read the Blind Watchmaker beyond the title, have you?

What could NOT in fact happen. Is a baby or non functional mentally challenged or person in a coma or person that is incapable of using their INTELLIGENCE in any form. They could NOT DESIGN A FUNCTIONAL WATCH!

Of course, like you Dawkins avoids that truth like the plaque too. Why? Because it's so obvious & is so logical & common sense filled that to acknowledge it means he like you have to admit there is an ID. That doesn't fit with atheist worldview.

So they, like you, avoid the oh so plainly obvious no matter how obvious & sadly you claim there is no proof. When in FACT it is proven all through creation, the heavens, nature & in real life because all of it has FUNCTIONAL DESIGN which is only possible through an ID.

No person can help another see what they in their own foolishness refuse to see much less acknowledge what's so plainly in front of them.

It's a waste of time. Until you are ready to be academically emotionally & completely honest with yourself & acknowledge what's so plainly seen. That's why you can't attempt even to give me one much less many examples of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN that didn't require an ID unless you use the hoax of evolutions just so stories. Because other than that you have no real life examples & certainly no Real honest & truly scientific lab experiments validating that is remotely possible.

Why keep playing the dishonest game acting like you seek proof. You really don't. It's everywhere. You won't acknowledge it regardless. So admit as some evolutionist, to their credit have been honest enough to admit, they admitted, evolution is a religion & it gives them an " intellectual" way in their mind to be an " intellectual" atheists.

I call that pure foolishness. But at least they admitted to the truth of what evolution is & to its core is atheism meaning it CANT acknowledge what's so plainly obvious despite it meaning they are self deceived fools.

I'm leaving on that. Until you can actually give me a true life example of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN occurring w/o ID. Which you can't. I'm going to leave you in your self chosen blindness to the obvious.
Bye again.
 
Prove your lungs are ID! Are you really asking that? It is so obvious it is laughable if not so tragically sad.

The fact your lungs are FUNCTIONAL & have the traits of Design. They interwork with so many other parts of your body & their DESIGN. to keep you alive is or not. https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-characteristics-of-a-good-design And 7 Essential Guidelines For Functional Design — Smashing Magazine

Think about this. In Robotics. Copying of man's body & its parts all of it takes ID. They can't work as well as what was originally FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED yet you want to sell me that they originally happened W/O ID when copying by Robotics takes ID. Wake up please! Even if mankind makes a machine stronger it still takes ID. That doesn't weaken my point. Those robots sure couldn't have occurred by random trial and error. It is like the quote from an atheist named Dr. Fred Hoyle. But as smart as he is he is like those on the Scientist Dissent List. He has to acknowledge there has to be an ID. He has said to make a case for evolution is like saying you can have a tornado go through a junkyard and it make a 747 assemble itself complete and ready for take off from the parts in the junkyard. He has made other analogies very similar to that. So he recognizes that ID is an absolute MUST due to all the FUNCTIONAL DESIGN and now as science knowledge has kept increasing the EXTREME COMPLEXITY OF FUNCTIONAL DESIGN that will and always will require an ID. Therefore, as an avid atheist where does he go for the ID he knows creation requires. He goes to outer space and space aliens. He is allowed to go wherever he wants to go. But the point is that as a Dr. in astro physics I think that was barely beaten out for a Nobel Prize in science. He recognizes what is so plainly obvious and yet you guys on here refuse to see what at least he readily acknowledges is plainly obvious.

Dr. DeBakey tried doing artificial heart transplants (took ID) but quit & now they use real ones. Same principle for any transplants. Real ones are better than the manmade ones using ID. But you've been sold the original (ones we live with ) was formed by random trial & error when NOTHING in your or my life experience validates anything that has FUNCTIONAL DESIGN can occur w/o ID. Again proving the statements I've quoted evolutionist use are correct that you guys claim is quote mining. Which is just their cover up when caught. They use just so stories, science w/o actual lab experiments to infer or insinuate, they filter info, they have been caught committing fraud after fraud. Why if they are so honest in science and it is so true do they NEED to and RESORT to such tactics! They still use proven frauds in text books to teach you because they have nothing else.

The more science advances the more complex they find the COMPLEXITY OF THE FUNCTIONAL DESIGN which they know can't occur by random trial and error and has to and always will require and ID. But see evolution is honestly atheist way of evangelism. Quotes prove that too. Why so many, including most on this thread. You can't admit to ID because if you do it will effect your atheism and that is what is most important to you in the final analysis. It effects ones worldview. As long as you don't have an ID you don't have to answer to Him, Her whatever you choose.


As I said earlier. Quit trying to be "academic" about this. Much less put on airs of superiority when it isn't earned or deserved. When it is just a smokescreen for the real reason. At least be honest. You have the right to be whatever you choose to be. But at least be honest. You don't care about proof because its everywhere and you won't acknowledge it anyway due to other reasons.

I was asked why I care. I always care about truth. I took my own journey finding them. Esp due to my terribly hypocritical "Christian" home I grew up with so much abuse. Yet growing up I could never buy into evolution because it never could pass the critical analysis test to me. Being good in math and reading carefully how they worded things and comparing what they said with real life experience. I could never get passed FUNCTIONAL DESIGN and much less it happening by random trial and error and without and Intelligence behind it. That is still the case and even more so and as science has discovered more and more incredibly complexity in nature. the heavens and precise measurements that if they were just a smidgen off life couldn't exist on this planet. See I've never seen and explosion of energy create order and precision. My first house. we had sold it by then was hit by a Texas sized tornado. It sure didn't leave behind order and precision in that whole neighborhood. Yet I am to buy a Big Bang created all this precision and order. First I want to know where and how the first energy was created and caused its release. Where did all the material come from to form the planets, stars, moons etc and what put them in their orbits and rotations and distances so precisely that if any of it was different life couldn't exist here on earth. See the math odds are so off the charts it is impossible. Again Dr. Hoyle agrees with me and so do Scientist Dissent List and it started way after I was graduated. Not by just so stories but real science lab experiments validating those just so stories and not their admitted science without demonstration.

For me. Acknowledging there was an ID was logical and common sense. Identifying who the ID was the hard part. Due to my childhood I had a bias against Christianity. But as an honest researcher I had to leave that open or I was not an honest researcher. I would have been controlled by bias not honesty. BTW my first Masters in college I was on scholarship for a research grant. I understand how research is done.

So I spent yrs doing my research and finally did come to a well researched and common sense and logical answer that shocked me but was backed up by so much truth that I had not known before. It has only solidified over the yrs since. Ironically I've read books by others that did what I did that the very same thing happened to them happened to me too.

That is why when I was challenged by the 2 Dr. guy at the workout facility I was very prepared. I not only knew the science and how things actually work. I myself had gone through a personal journey. So as we talked. I let him lead it but I was prepared to answer because I had already walked where he was walking. What was so wonderful was at the end of the two yrs. He was academically satisfied and internally satisfied and willing to do what I had done. I was blessed to be the one to help him on his similar road to discovery. Until someone has walked it and knows this one can't understand it.

My wife has had cancer twice. I was teetering for 48 hours between life and death due to a Dr.s mistake. I lived obviously since I'm typing on here. Yet I've lived with the consequences for over 20 yrs since. Got no compensation as no Dr. would testify against the other. I've had over 21 surgeries due to football and 3 non at fault car wrecks and that Dr.s mistake. It has left me on disability and in constant pain. Yet I am still so in love with my ID that I look forward to my eternity being spent with Him despite all I've gone through. See all the mess has become my message. I hope I've answered above questions.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Prove your lungs are ID! Are you really asking that? It is so obvious it is laughable if not so tragically sad.
You start with an insult which is always a great way to win over the opposition.

The fact your lungs are FUNCTIONAL & have the traits of Design. They interwork with so many other parts of your body & their DESIGN. to keep you alive is or not. https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-characteristics-of-a-good-design And 7 Essential Guidelines For Functional Design — Smashing Magazine

Give no evidence to answer the question with and back it up with two irrelevant links.

Think about this. In Robotics. Copying of man's body & its parts all of it takes ID. They can't work as well as what was originally FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED yet you want to sell me that they originally happened W/O ID when copying by Robotics takes ID. Wake up please! Even if mankind makes a machine stronger it still takes ID. That doesn't weaken my point. Those robots sure couldn't have occurred by random trial and error. It is like the quote from an atheist named Dr. Fred Hoyle. But as smart as he is he is like those on the Scientist Dissent List. He has to acknowledge there has to be an ID. He has said to make a case for evolution is like saying you can have a tornado go through a junkyard and it make a 747 assemble itself complete and ready for take off from the parts in the junkyard. He has made other analogies very similar to that. So he recognizes that ID is an absolute MUST due to all the FUNCTIONAL DESIGN and now as science knowledge has kept increasing the EXTREME COMPLEXITY OF FUNCTIONAL DESIGN that will and always will require an ID. Therefore, as an avid atheist where does he go for the ID he knows creation requires. He goes to outer space and space aliens. He is allowed to go wherever he wants to go. But the point is that as a Dr. in astro physics I think that was barely beaten out for a Nobel Prize in science. He recognizes what is so plainly obvious and yet you guys on here refuse to see what at least he readily acknowledges is plainly obvious.

Ramble off in different directions that have nothing to do with the point you responded to.

Dr. DeBakey tried doing artificial heart transplants (took ID) but quit & now they use real ones. Same principle for any transplants. Real ones are better than the manmade ones using ID. But you've been sold the original (ones we live with ) was formed by random trial & error when NOTHING in your or my life experience validates anything that has FUNCTIONAL DESIGN can occur w/o ID. Again proving the statements I've quoted evolutionist use are correct that you guys claim is quote mining. Which is just their cover up when caught. They use just so stories, science w/o actual lab experiments to infer or insinuate, they filter info, they have been caught committing fraud after fraud. Why if they are so honest in science and it is so true do they NEED to and RESORT to such tactics! They still use proven frauds in text books to teach you because they have nothing else.

I have no idea what most of this means or why you keep repeating it.

The more science advances the more complex they find the COMPLEXITY OF THE FUNCTIONAL DESIGN which they know can't occur by random trial and error and has to and always will require and ID. But see evolution is honestly atheist way of evangelism. Quotes prove that too. Why so many, including most on this thread. You can't admit to ID because if you do it will effect your atheism and that is what is most important to you in the final analysis. It effects ones worldview. As long as you don't have an ID you don't have to answer to Him, Her whatever you choose.

I lost interest after "the more complex they find the complexity".

As I said earlier. Quit trying to be "academic" about this. Much less put on airs of superiority when it isn't earned or deserved. When it is just a smokescreen for the real reason. At least be honest. You have the right to be whatever you choose to be. But at least be honest. You don't care about proof because its everywhere and you won't acknowledge it anyway due to other reasons.

This bit really baffles me... you are always complaining that evolution is not scientific then tell him to stop being academic.

I was asked why I care. I always care about truth.

You have no interest in the truth, you are only interested in preaching your own agenda as shown by your statement that democrats and leftists are trying to do away with Memorial Day.

I took my own journey finding them. Esp due to my terribly hypocritical "Christian" home I grew up with so much abuse. Yet growing up I could never buy into evolution because it never could pass the critical analysis test to me. Being good in math and reading carefully how they worded things and comparing what they said with real life experience. I could never get passed FUNCTIONAL DESIGN and much less it happening by random trial and error and without and Intelligence behind it. That is still the case and even more so and as science has discovered more and more incredibly complexity in nature. the heavens and precise measurements that if they were just a smidgen off life couldn't exist on this planet. See I've never seen and explosion of energy create order and precision. My first house. we had sold it by then was hit by a Texas sized tornado. It sure didn't leave behind order and precision in that whole neighborhood. Yet I am to buy a Big Bang created all this precision and order. First I want to know where and how the first energy was created and caused its release. Where did all the material come from to form the planets, stars, moons etc and what put them in their orbits and rotations and distances so precisely that if any of it was different life couldn't exist here on earth. See the math odds are so off the charts it is impossible. Again Dr. Hoyle agrees with me and so do Scientist Dissent List and it started way after I was graduated. Not by just so stories but real science lab experiments validating those just so stories and not their admitted science without demonstration.

Functional design... yet below you describe how poorly you are designed.

For me. Acknowledging there was an ID was logical and common sense. Identifying who the ID was the hard part. Due to my childhood I had a bias against Christianity. But as an honest researcher I had to leave that open or I was not an honest researcher. I would have been controlled by bias not honesty. BTW my first Masters in college I was on scholarship for a research grant. I understand how research is done.
Using the same common sense that lead you to ask a question that you then claimed to be unanswerable and then threatening not to respond until someone answered the unanswerable?

So I spent yrs doing my research and finally did come to a well researched and common sense and logical answer that shocked me but was backed up by so much truth that I had not known before. It has only solidified over the yrs since. Ironically I've read books by others that did what I did that the very same thing happened to them happened to me too.
I don't trust your examples of truth, logic or common sense.

That is why when I was challenged by the 2 Dr. guy at the workout facility I was very prepared. I not only knew the science and how things actually work. I myself had gone through a personal journey. So as we talked. I let him lead it but I was prepared to answer because I had already walked where he was walking. What was so wonderful was at the end of the two yrs. He was academically satisfied and internally satisfied and willing to do what I had done. I was blessed to be the one to help him on his similar road to discovery. Until someone has walked it and knows this one can't understand it.

A personal anecdote that I doubt to be fact, I have no way of investigating it. Even if it is true what does it prove? I can give numerous examples of theists that became atheists.

My wife has had cancer twice. I was teetering for 48 hours between life and death due to a Dr.s mistake. I lived obviously since I'm typing on here. Yet I've lived with the consequences for over 20 yrs since. Got no compensation as no Dr. would testify against the other. I've had over 21 surgeries due to football and 3 non at fault car wrecks and that Dr.s mistake. It has left me on disability and in constant pain. Yet I am still so in love with my ID that I look forward to my eternity being spent with Him despite all I've gone through. See all the mess has become my message. I hope I've answered above questions.

Proving that if we are designed whoever or whatever did a terrible job.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Prove your lungs are ID! Are you really asking that? It is so obvious it is laughable if not so tragically sad.

The fact your lungs are FUNCTIONAL & have the traits of Design. They interwork with so many other parts of your body & their DESIGN. to keep you alive is or not. https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-characteristics-of-a-good-design And 7 Essential Guidelines For Functional Design — Smashing Magazine
I see, so your entire argument is circular. Your proof that function requires design is that function requires design. The rest of your rambling in this post isn't worth reading.

I wish you'd said that to begin with so I didn't have to bother responding to you. Also, weren't you leaving?
 
I don't try to insult. Just trying to get you to wake up to the obvious. Which BTW Jesus did exactly the same thing at times to make his points.

As usual you just ignore the obvious. If ones lungs weren't FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by an ID then they wouldn't work & none of us could live. Even if other parts of us are breaking down. That is a different discussion that I'm willing to have. Yet we know this isn't the thread to have it. Why bad things happen with a Loving God.

I tell you what. Let's make this realistic as possible. You'd have to admit that Robotics are FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by an ID. Including the computer chop(s) like RNA/DNA that run the whole machine.

So I want you to convince me that all Robotics were created by Random trial & error over time & never ever needed a ID.

Robotics are designed to do jobs & tasks humans can & can't do safer. Disarm bombs & or just regular tasks. Yet as we all know the take ID.

But as a analogy. You must convince me that they are & have been FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by random trial & error never needing an ID.

See that's what evolution is selling now with the difference being we are actual human beings with an ETERNAL soul that can reproduce.

The fact my body has been hurt during my days of playing football & being rear ended twice & broadsided once at my passenger side door & Dr.s mistake that almost cost me my life & I still live with the results & never ending pain. All of that has no bearing on my not being FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED. Geez if you took robotics, like you see in advertisements, have them in car wrecks. They suffer damage. Does that mean they were any less FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED? Of course not. As I've been saying you're grasping at straws or anything to not deal with the real issue.

I'm eagerly awaiting how you, like evolution does, will argue & prove robotics are not FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by an ID & they have all occurred by Random trial & error w/o any use of ID.

Have a great Lords day!
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
I don't try to insult. Just trying to get you to wake up to the obvious. Which BTW Jesus did exactly the same thing at times to make his points.

You're not Jesus and I'm not Christian. See, I have no problem identifying the obvious.

As usual you just ignore the obvious. If ones lungs weren't FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by an ID then they wouldn't work & none of us could live.

Just because you say something doesn't make it fact (or obvious). Do you have any evidence?

Even if other parts of us are breaking down. That is a different discussion that I'm willing to have. Yet we know this isn't the thread to have it. Why bad things happen with a Loving God.

I didn't ask why bad things happen to good people, I don't know you so can't judge if you are good or not. My point was that if humans are designed then they are poor design.

I tell you what. Let's make this realistic as possible. You'd have to admit that Robotics are FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by an ID. Including the computer chop(s) like RNA/DNA that run the whole machine.

Yes they are designed.

So I want you to convince me that all Robotics were created by Random trial & error over time & never ever needed a ID.

Can't because we have evidence they were not.

Robotics are designed to do jobs & tasks humans can & can't do safer. Disarm bombs & or just regular tasks. Yet as we all know the take ID.

But as a analogy. You must convince me that they are & have been FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by random trial & error never needing an ID.

I don't think you understand the purpose of an analogy.

See that's what evolution is selling now with the difference being we are actual human beings with an ETERNAL soul that can reproduce.

I don't agree with the eternal soul, there is no evidence for that but at least you're seeing the difference between life and man made objects.

The fact my body has been hurt during my days of playing football & being rear ended twice & broadsided once at my passenger side door & Dr.s mistake that almost cost me my life & I still live with the results & never ending pain. All of that has no bearing on my not being FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED. Geez if you took robotics, like you see in advertisements, have them in car wrecks. They suffer damage. Does that mean they were any less FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED? Of course not. As I've been saying you're grasping at straws or anything to not deal with the real issue.

So what's the real issue?

I'm eagerly awaiting how you, like evolution does, will argue & prove robotics are not FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED by an ID & they have all occurred by Random trial & error w/o any use of ID.

It is impossible, pointless and ridiculous.

How about you offer up you evidence for intelligent design. So far all you have said.. it is because it is.
 
I've given you countless proofs of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN. Problem is you refuse to acknowledge what's so plainly obvious.. I even told you why you won't acknowledge it.

You continually prove my point. You claiming to be wise continue proving yourself fools.

It's not proof you really seek. It's on this thread. You refuse to acknowledge ID that's responsible for ID. Because you won't give up your world view & with that know you'd have to acknowledge their is a power greater than yourself & you just might be accountable to Him.

Ironically, whether you acknowledge Him or not doesn't change His reality etc..

I've explained all this. Quit playing games & act like you need proof. You don't care that there is & its everywhere. You won't acknowledge it for reasons far beyond the science.

Just admit that regardless of the proof I'm a committed Atheist first & foremost regardless of proof otherwise.

I respect honesty much more than the games you play. It's not like you don't have the right to be an Atheist. You sure do.

It doesn't make you correct because you refuse to acknowledge the plainly obvious.


I won't waste any more time for people not being truly honest about looking for TRUTH.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
I've given you countless proofs of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN.

Not factual, give me 10 minutes and I'll go count them. You have given no proof... easily countable. You have made unsupported claims.

Problem is you refuse to acknowledge what's so plainly obvious.. I even told you why you won't acknowledge it.

Because you say something doesn't make it obvious and you have no idea how or what I think. I make my decisions based on the evidence. There is no evidence for life having been intelligently designed by a creator.

You continually prove my point. You claiming to be wise continue proving yourself fools.

And you continue to offer nothing but insults and threats

It's not proof you really seek. It's on this thread. You refuse to acknowledge ID that's responsible for ID. Because you won't give up your world view & with that know you'd have to acknowledge their is a power greater than yourself & you just might be accountable to Him.

Listen to yourself... I refuse to acknowledge ID that's responsible for ID. What does that mean!

Ironically, whether you acknowledge Him or not doesn't change His reality etc..

Ironically I never said it did.

I've explained all this. Quit playing games & act like you need proof. You don't care that there is & its everywhere. You won't acknowledge it for reasons far beyond the science.

If there's so much then simply show it to me!

Just admit that regardless of the proof I'm a committed Atheist first & foremost regardless of proof otherwise.

Do you even know what an atheist is?

I respect honesty much more than the games you play. It's not like you don't have the right to be an Atheist. You sure do.

I've seen examples of your dishonesty which is why I want evidence of your claims.

It doesn't make you correct because you refuse to acknowledge the plainly obvious.

Doesn't make me wrong that I won't be bullied into believing what you believe from your threats and insults. Is your position so weak you need to try to bully people into agreeing with you?

I won't waste any more time for people not being truly honest about looking for TRUTH.

Who cares! Just another one of your childish threats. Mummy they won't let me win so I'm not playing with them again..... Grow up and have an adult discussion!
 
My last attempt because evolution has proven it teaches students WHAT to THINK not HOW to THINK. Meaning critical Analysis.

You & I & evolutionist know that Robotics are great examples of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN. But let's limit it the ones Designed to Function like humans & do same jobs &/or jobs more dangerous like disarming a bomb.

We all recognize they used ID & are FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED because they do & function as Designed to do.

So if you as an evolutionist didn't believe they were FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED & were given the task to teach mankind they just " appeared " designed that's all there is to it. Then people objected to you. How can you say that since the actually work & function exactly as they were designed to do by ID.

Now you have to convince them those FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED robotics aren't FUNCTIONALLY despite all the evidence to the contrary.

So to prove your point as I've been asking. Prove all Robotics aren't FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED & occurred by Random trial & error w/o any ID.

Realize we are only talking robotics here. Humans are far more complex & in far more ways.

So your job as an evolutionist. Is to sell me, like humans, Robotics aren't FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED & they occurred by evolutionary methods & w/o any ID ever getting involved. Humans makes it worse. They marry & reproduce & can reason & do many other things Robots can't.

That's as close an example as there is.
For you to not grasp that says so much more about you than me. I won't attempt again. Because truly you're embarrassing yourself & fully exposing the evolutionary hoax & fraud their own words admit that you can't bring yourself to do like others have.

Thanks for exposing evolution for the fraud & hoax it is though! God Bless You this week.

Until you actually attempt to do as asked & prove what I've asked & evolution MUST prove to be remotely feasible.

Your diversion tactics are over because until you actually attempt to try its wasted our time as I've explained. But Thanks for proving my multiple points all along.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
My last attempt because evolution has proven it teaches students WHAT to THINK not HOW to THINK. Meaning critical Analysis.

You & I & evolutionist know that Robotics are great examples of FUNCTIONAL DESIGN. But let's limit it the ones Designed to Function like humans & do same jobs &/or jobs more dangerous like disarming a bomb.

We all recognize they used ID & are FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED because they do & function as Designed to do.

So if you as an evolutionist didn't believe they were FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED & were given the task to teach mankind they just " appeared " designed that's all there is to it. Then people objected to you. How can you say that since the actually work & function exactly as they were designed to do by ID.

Now you have to convince them those FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED robotics aren't FUNCTIONALLY despite all the evidence to the contrary.

So to prove your point as I've been asking. Prove all Robotics aren't FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED & occurred by Random trial & error w/o any ID.

Realize we are only talking robotics here. Humans are far more complex & in far more ways.

So your job as an evolutionist. Is to sell me, like humans, Robotics aren't FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED & they occurred by evolutionary methods & w/o any ID ever getting involved. Humans makes it worse. They marry & reproduce & can reason & do many other things Robots can't.

That's as close an example as there is.
For you to not grasp that says so much more about you than me. I won't attempt again. Because truly you're embarrassing yourself & fully exposing the evolutionary hoax & fraud their own words admit that you can't bring yourself to do like others have.

Thanks for exposing evolution for the fraud & hoax it is though! God Bless You this week.

Until you actually attempt to do as asked & prove what I've asked & evolution MUST prove to be remotely feasible.

Your diversion tactics are over because until you actually attempt to try its wasted our time as I've explained. But Thanks for proving my multiple points all along.

Lol. My only job left for the day is to cook pork tikka masala for tea tonight. Your threats and insults won't bully me into playing your childish games.

Grow up and have an adult discussion!
 
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