Evolution & Creationism are both Faith & Supernatural based

[Subduction Zone]

You know what's so extremely sad about you & others. My friend the 2 Engineer guy. As an Engineer he knew how things really work what it takes to make them work FUNCTIONAALY & that it takes an ID to have FUNCTIONAL DESIGN in real life just like it does it nature. Because in Nature things are not only DESIGNED they work as they are FUNCTIONALLY DESIGNED to work & that always requires an ID. He recognized that immediately. Why with Robotics etc he knew I had him in a corner he couldn't get out of & be honest to his education, profession , common sense logic etc. You are none of those. I didn't realize how fortunate I was with him. Yet actually I do because it was a divine appointment that God had set up before time began.

You guys aren't his equal in many ways & knowing him. We're he alive. Man would he eat your lunch on here for acting as you are. It's exposing you & your hypocrisy etc.

He'd actually laugh at the unrealistic arguments you keep parroting that Evolution has taught you WHAT to THINK w/o teaching you HOW to THINK much with critical analysis.

Sadly I didn't realize at that time how fortunate I was that his vast education & esp in Engineering & therefore knowing what all it takes to go from an idea to produce a DESIGN & then produce a FUNCTIONAL DESIGN & all the ID it requires. Despite his extreme active atheism which prompted him to challenge me in the first place.

Yet due to his deep knowledge of the above & despite his atheistic activism. He was an HONEST academic & would abide by the ground rules we BOTH agreed to before we started.

Sure he knew I was educated before we started but his ego knew his 2 Dr. trumped my 2 Masters. So he looked down on me at first. Then after just a few weeks he finally told me & admitted to me that I was his equal & esp in the areas we were covering. He then lost his arrogance & we proceeded as equals in even his mind. That was a key turning point. I went at it as if we were traveling the road of searching for the truth together. I just let him set the pace & subjects as we traveled together.

We're he alive today & I was able to get him on this thread. He would truly dress you guys down for being so academically dishonest & not actually understanding how things really work & proving how brainwashed you truly are. It's that tragic.
I hate seeing it for your sake.

You've made your bed. So you will have to live with it Eternally. Praise God he was like he was ultimately & esp at the end. Because now his Eternity is going to spent where he never imagined existed & had always fought against.

I wish the same for you someday. But like him. The next day isn't guaranteed. Had he told me or actually Jesus no that Friday afternoon. His Eternity would have been eternally different. Less than 24 hours was the difference. ETERNITY IS TOO LONG TO BE WRONG! I've said all can say. The rest is on you. You have access to everything you need.

Even reading books by Lee Strobel
Josh McDowell or going back in history. The Lawyer Simon Greenleaf that wrote the Rules of evidence still used today while at Harvard in 1800's. He was avid Atheist. His students challenged him to use his own rules of evidence to prove or disprove the Bible & Jesus. He took that challenge thinking it would be easy. He wrote a book afterwards confirming the Bible & Jesus & becoming a dedicated Christian himself. See if someone will actually honestly look at the evidence all the evidence is there. Don't just read the skeptics etc that validate your bias. Honest research means you have to look, read the evidence for & study it all otherwise it's dishonest research.
God Bless

That you convinced your make believe friend with poor reasoning and PRATT's tells us that your friend was not all that bright.

If you want to convince people you should try to learn how to debate properly.

EDIT: And your posts are very strong evidence against you having any sort of post high school degree. Very few people that went to college have any problem at all in debating on forums. They quickly learn how to use the Reply button, how to quote, and how to link reliable sources.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

And if my imaginary friend were still around, I'm sure he'd beat up your imaginary friend and steal his lunch money too.

Until now, I was unaware of the argument of the imaginary engineer. That settles it for me. Unless someone can come up with a better imaginary friend that worked in biology.

Are you going to stop telling inane stories and present an argument or actual evidence any time soon?

Probably not. He has nothing to do beyond assertions, inane fiction and disparaging remarks about the intelligence and integrity of other posters.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That you convinced your make believe friend with poor reasoning and PRATT's tells us that your friend was not all that bright.

If you want to convince people you should try to learn how to debate properly.

EDIT: And your posts are very strong evidence against you having any sort of post high school degree. Very few people that went to college have any problem at all in debating on forums. They quickly learn how to use the Reply button, how to quote, and how to link reliable sources.

I missed all the scientific papers that use the imaginary friend and pretend education defense in scientific arguments. I must have been in the field on the days they talked about that in my classes.

This guy can not even figure out how to use this site and the reply button.

 

[John53]

He keeps trying to smuggle purpose in through the back door by going on a about function. You do not need a biology degree to recognize that cells have functions, tissues have functions, organs have functions and so on. Even species within an ecosystem function in some capacity. Yet, he keeps failing to show is assertions about function are evidence of design. It can all be explained by natural selection.

I have read the assertions and arguments too. Nothing there.

That's because you refuse to accept the logic that ID is ID because ID is ID and you refuse to explain how a robot is not designed so ner

I could not imagine volunteering to spend three hours a week listening to this incoherent broken record make the same assertions and disparaging remarks over and over again.

I've never been on a tread mill but I imagine it is already boring enough without listening to that. I doubt it ever happened or is grossly exaggerated.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Perhaps someone on here will provide an intelligent design argument for traumatic insemination. This is a form of sexual reproduction found in invertebrates and is the sole means of sexual reproduction in the genus Cimex, or bed bugs. In this form of reproduction, females are inseminated through a wound into the abdominal cavity made when the male thrusts his aedeagus through her abdominal wall and deposits sperm in the female's hemocoel. The injury can be detrimental to the female through the open wound, loss of body fluids, infection and potential immune response to sperm and ejaculatory fluids.

Insects are highly fecund organisms and Cimex is no exception. One only has to review photos and footage of bed bug infestations to recognize that reproduction is an active part of the biology of these insects.

Where is the design and where is the intelligence?

I will only respond to posts that are directed to me. If any.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That's because you refuse to accept the logic that ID is ID because ID is ID and you refuse to explain how a robot is not designed so

Since you put it that way, I am on board. ID all the way.

You make a very compelling argument. You had me at point 30.101, subsection B, but I hung on until point 103.38, subsection F, just to maintain my due diligence.

I've never been on a tread mill but I imagine it is already boring enough without listening to that. I doubt it ever happened or is grossly exaggerated.

I have been and you are correct. It can be boring. I have used stationary bicycles as well. Equally boring. I much prefer being out on a bike or a hike and seeing something.

His posts are very much like watching someone on a treadmill.

It would not surprise me that he met some dude at the gym once, they talked and the story has evolved. The next telling he may have three PhD's for all I know. Heck, why not. Let's go ahead and award him his third imaginary PhD. What should it be in? Patience? Hearing loss?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The proper use of treadmills is to test Directly Downwind Faster Than The Wind models.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Attached is an example of how geologist Steven Earle uses examples of pseudoscience to teach critical thinking, scientific reasoning and the application of geological knowledge. While the points made by Dr. Singham as they were raised in previous posts are legitimate points about science education, educators are not resigning themselves to accepting those points as inevitable. Earle's paper is a great example of how science, scientific reasoning and critical thinking can be taught to students early in their educations.


From:
Earle, S. 2003. Project Atlantis - An exercise in the application of Earth science to a critical examination of a pseudoscience hypothesis. J. Geosci. Educ. 51(3): 290-293.

ABSTRACT I ask my first-year physical geology students to write an essay examining the Crustal Displacement hypothesis (Flem-ath and Flem-ath, 1995), a hypothesis that is inconsistent with the accepted understanding of crustal and mantle processes. The assignment involves designing a test of the hypothesis, based on the material covered in our discussion of the theory of plate tectonics and of how the theory evolved. The assignment is useful because it forces students to solidify their understanding of plate tectonics by applying their knowledge in a new context, teaches them about the process of scientific reasoning and the need for objective analysis of all hypotheses, and gives them practice in critical thinking. This type of assignment could be applied to many comparable pseudoscience hypotheses in a wide range of geological disciplines.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b6a8/8d9530b448018d10ab381162455bf9d6b863.pdf

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The proper use of treadmills is to test Directly Downwind Faster Than The Wind models.

You may have to explain that one to me SZ, but I did see a video where two guys were using a treadmill to load firewood into a basement.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

What these guys like him do is they get loaded up
with the same same same oldy moldy creosite
garbage, and, energized like someone fresh
from one of those motivational speaker rallies
they charge in to slay the evil evos left and right.

With god on their side, they are incapable of being
wrong about anything. You'd not get a concession
of the least error in anything they say. Why would they?
They are on gods side, they are right, you are,well,
not.

When you spot one of those, people, it is best to
just ignore them. Especially as there will be no
actual response to anything said to them.

Now, we have a few who are at least
vaguely worth engaging. There is the incredibly
rare such who might even see some
enlightenment come their way.

Usually, though, it is more like a game to
see just how far into lunacy and denial they
will go to try to uphold some absurd notion.
Among my fav. such are the "flash frozen mammoths
in much" people. (they always use the word
"muck" which shows they all get it from the same
woo woo site)


Some few of these creos have been able to
buttenhole a paleontologist or other scientist.

Of course, the researcher will get shut of them
as quickly as human decency will allow. And
then creo will interpret that as what was that,
"pressure tested"?

I expect the archaeologists who work in Egypt
are equally pleased to be gone-after by one of
those pyramid freaks.

It would be a horrible thing to see one of those
people (lets pick one who is not actually insane)
and have him try to do a thesis defense

The slaughter would be, yes, horrible indeed.

That is a pretty good model you have formulated. That is how I see resident ID apologist. He is all pumped up on sermons of pseudoscience and with God at his back, he can do no wrong. He cannot listen or respond properly either, but that may just be his own unique features that he brings to the table.

I am not sure I could look directly on that slaughter. Probably I would peak through squinting, partially averted eyes. It would be painful to watch.

Sorry. I was looking back at an old post and mistook this one for something new and responded. I will let it stand. My response to a good post is still valid.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You may have to explain that one to me SZ, but I did see a video where two guys were using a treadmill to load firewood into a basement.

A DDWFTTW vehicle is one that is propelled by the wind, and goes faster than the wind, in a directly downwind direction. That makes treadmills ideal for testing them since running in place on a treadmill is exactly the same as running on the road directly downwind at the speed of the wind. A vehicle that advances in the treadmill is going faster than the wind, one that falls off the back is moving slower.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

A DDWFTTW vehicle is one that is propelled by the wind, and goes faster than the wind, in a directly downwind direction. That makes treadmills ideal for testing them since running in place on a treadmill is exactly the same as running on the road directly downwind at the speed of the wind. A vehicle that advances in the treadmill is going faster than the wind, one that falls off the back is moving slower.

Cool. I did not know that. Now that you have explained it, it make sense. It seems, in principle, to be similar to those spas that produce a current that allow you to swim in a small space by swimming into the oncoming current.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Cool. I did not know that. Now that you have explained it, it make sense. It seems, in principle, to be similar to those spas that produce a current that allow you to swim in a small space by swimming into the oncoming current.

And though it seems to violate laws of physics it is possible to make a vehicle that is propelled only by the wind that goes directly downwind faster than the wind. In other words one "sails" into one's own headwind.

 

[John53]

Perhaps someone on here will provide an intelligent design argument for traumatic insemination. This is a form of sexual reproduction found in invertebrates and is the sole means of sexual reproduction in the genus Cimex, or bed bugs. In this form of reproduction, females are inseminated through a wound into the abdominal cavity made when the male thrusts his aedeagus through her abdominal wall and deposits sperm in the female's hemocoel. The injury can be detrimental to the female through the open wound, loss of body fluids, infection and potential immune response to sperm and ejaculatory fluids.

Insects are highly fecund organisms and Cimex is no exception. One only has to review photos and footage of bed bug infestations to recognize that reproduction is an active part of the biology of these insects.

Where is the design and where is the intelligence?

I will only respond to posts that are directed to me. If any.

Have to confess I knew nothing of this, I've done a bit of reading today and it is a very interesting topic. However I can't help with explaining how it could be considered an intelligent design.

I help some people who are studying migratory waders (in a very minor role, I stand on mudflats counting birds) and went to a talk they were giving a few days ago. It was mainly about the Motus wildlife tracking system but one of the speakers touched on the evolution of migratory birds, with the help of Motus they are finding out that it involves a lot more learned behaviour than was thought. I had always assumed it was all instinct. (Sorry for wandering off in another direction)

 

[Subduction Zone]

Have to confess I knew nothing of this, I've done a bit of reading today and it is a very interesting topic. However I can't help with explaining how it could be considered an intelligent design.

I help some people who are studying migratory waders (in a very minor role, I stand on mudflats counting birds) and went to a talk they were giving a few days ago. It was mainly about the Motus wildlife tracking system but one of the speakers touched on the evolution of migratory birds, with the help of Motus they are finding out that it involves a lot more learned behaviour than was thought. I had always assumed it was all instinct. (Sorry for wandering off in another direction)

If it was learned behavior then it would not seem to be "ID" as used by our antagonist. But that is interesting. I suppose once a path is learned it is passed down from generation to generation. I suppose one could test it by mixing young birds from different populations. If they picked up the migration pattern of those that they live with that would be evidence that their flight paths were learned and not instinctual. To be honest that does make a bit more sense to me.

 

[John53]

If it was learned behavior then it would not seem to be "ID" as used by our antagonist. But that is interesting. I suppose once a path is learned it is passed down from generation to generation. I suppose one could test it by mixing young birds from different populations. If they picked up the migration pattern of those that they live with that would be evidence that their flight paths were learned and not instinctual. To be honest that does make a bit more sense to me.

They've only have meaningful data on 1 species at the moment, the research was done in Canada and I can't for the life of me remember the species (I'll ask Alan next time I talk to him, he's in charge of the research in my area and he has a PhD! (Not sure how many though)). The juveniles left a couple of weeks after the adults and made a few trial and error attempts before taking a completely different route to the adults.

 

[Bear Wild]

Have to confess I knew nothing of this, I've done a bit of reading today and it is a very interesting topic. However I can't help with explaining how it could be considered an intelligent design.

I help some people who are studying migratory waders (in a very minor role, I stand on mudflats counting birds) and went to a talk they were giving a few days ago. It was mainly about the Motus wildlife tracking system but one of the speakers touched on the evolution of migratory birds, with the help of Motus they are finding out that it involves a lot more learned behaviour than was thought. I had always assumed it was all instinct. (Sorry for wandering off in another direction)

Actually I find bird migrations fascinating. The evidence that night-migratory birds can use the the angle of the magnetic field lines relative to the Earth’s surface and not just the polarity is amazing. Evidently there are at least two proposals 1) that trigeminal-nerve-related, magnetite (Fe3O4) as magnetoreceptor in the upper beak of birds can detect the magnetic field lines or 2) a light-dependent photo-induced electron transfer reaction in cryptochromes (found the birds retina) can generate changes in electronic spin-states whose development depends on the direction of the Earth’s magnetic field forming a type of magnetic compass. I can't explain the physics of the second proposal but evidently the ganglia of these retinal neurons attach to a portion of the forebrain of the bird involved in orientation behavior.
Another amazing product of evolution (to tie this into the topic)!

 

[John53]

Perhaps someone on here will provide an intelligent design argument for traumatic insemination. This is a form of sexual reproduction found in invertebrates and is the sole means of sexual reproduction in the genus Cimex, or bed bugs. In this form of reproduction, females are inseminated through a wound into the abdominal cavity made when the male thrusts his aedeagus through her abdominal wall and deposits sperm in the female's hemocoel. The injury can be detrimental to the female through the open wound, loss of body fluids, infection and potential immune response to sperm and ejaculatory fluids.

Insects are highly fecund organisms and Cimex is no exception. One only has to review photos and footage of bed bug infestations to recognize that reproduction is an active part of the biology of these insects.

Where is the design and where is the intelligence?

I will only respond to posts that are directed to me. If any.

Hi Dan,

I was watching a show today about the Jewell Wasp (or Emerald Cockroach Wasp). They sting a cockroach in a particular spot in the brain that effectively turns them into a zombie then lead them to their nest and lay an egg in them which hatches after 3 days then eats the cockroach from the inside out. I wonder why a kind, loving intelligent designer would design such a cruel system. Seems to me evolution would be the only explanation.

Parasitic wasp turns roaches into zombie slaves using neurotoxic cocktail

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hi Dan,

I was watching a show today about the Jewell Wasp (or Emerald Cockroach Wasp). They sting a cockroach in a particular spot in the brain that effectively turns them into a zombie then lead them to their nest and lay an egg in them which hatches after 3 days then eats the cockroach from the inside out. I wonder why a kind, loving intelligent designer would design such a cruel system. Seems to me evolution would be the only explanation.

Parasitic wasp turns roaches into zombie slaves using neurotoxic cocktail

Nature seems to love zombies:

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Hi Dan,

I was watching a show today about the Jewell Wasp (or Emerald Cockroach Wasp). They sting a cockroach in a particular spot in the brain that effectively turns them into a zombie then lead them to their nest and lay an egg in them which hatches after 3 days then eats the cockroach from the inside out. I wonder why a kind, loving intelligent designer would design such a cruel system. Seems to me evolution would be the only explanation.

Parasitic wasp turns roaches into zombie slaves using neurotoxic cocktail

Nature is pretty stark and cold in how it operates sometimes. Those gazelles that get attacked by lions are sometimes still alive when the lions start to eat.

The order Hymenoptera (ants, bees and wasps) is represented by about 120,000 described species. The majority are parasitic wasps like the one Emerald Cockroach Wasp. Many are endoparasites like that, but there are ectoparasitic species too. Hyperparasites are found in this group as well. These are parasitic wasps that parasitize other parasitic wasps that are, in turn, parasites on some other insect.

Parasitism at some stage in development is a very successful strategy. Not as successful as mutualism or comensalism, but still very successful.

I would imagine that you have some species of mud dauber wasps in Australia. These build small mud nests on structures. Some of the species here hunt spiders, anesthetize them with their sting and store them in the nest where they lay eggs and the larvae eventually eat the spiders. The wasp venom immobilizes the spiders and keeps them alive and fresh until their eggs hatch. It is all very cruel from a human perspective.