Evolution: Do you see the resemblence

[Captain Civic]

Since evolution is not a world view, one cannot be an evolutionist.

I disagree. Evolution is taught in schools that it is the correct (or most correct till this point) statement of where we came from. Any religious views are ousted. Not even a hint of creationism of any religion, or any other ideas. Prayers in American schools are not allowed. I'd say at least in schools it's increasingly becoming that way.

 

[Papersock]

Evolution is taught in schools as part of science. It is not a world view so much as it is just a scientific theory.

 

[Autodidact]

Would you call this micro evolution? leading to macro evolutionary change

Yes, exactly.

Where did the first ancestor originate? I would like to hear your answer, please ,just youranswer, if nothingelse.

THE FIRST ANCESTOR OF WHAT?

"You'd have to call them another species", is this your conclusion ,wow! how profound. This is the type of scientific conclusions that become the basis of evolution theory!!

Exactly. I try to explain them in simple terms, however.

One species to another, interesting hypothesis.

It was a hypothesis before it was verified; now it's theory.

I'll look into that for validity and any ongoing experiments.

You do that. You're only 100 years behind.

There must be evidence of this happening now, fossils, actual existing species,anything

Oh yes, lots of evidence, but I want to explain the theory first, and then get to the evidence, if you don't mind.

So, if this is the hypothesis, then I guess your defense as to why there is no evidence of this actually happening or had happened is that we have arrived at the end of our migration,mutation, or evolutiomary stages or whatever you choose to call it.

Did I say there is no evidence? There's tons of it. It's going to take pages, believe me. No, evolution doesn't stop, it's still going on right now.

Maybe it's going to happen in the next 100 yrs, that would be convenient for those who won't be here to have to save face.

Maybe what's going to happen?

 

[nutshell]

I disagree. Evolution is taught in schools that it is the correct (or most correct till this point) statement of where we came from. Any religious views are ousted. Not even a hint of creationism of any religion, or any other ideas. Prayers in American schools are not allowed. I'd say at least in schools it's increasingly becoming that way.

We're not talking about prayers so drop that argument.

As for evolution,,,where is it taught?>??? That's right in science class. If you or your kids want religion and the school doesn't provide it, have a pre or post school Bible group.

 

[nutshell]

Autodidact,

Since Roli is evading your questions and wrapping his own in unnecessary gobbledeguck, I'll translate.

Question: What is the common ancestor for chimps and humans?

I already answered that the common ancestor likely existed between 5 and 7 million years ago, but he ignored me. I hope you have better luck than me!

 

[gnomon]

I disagree. Evolution is taught in schools that it is the correct (or most correct till this point) statement of where we came from. Any religious views are ousted. Not even a hint of creationism of any religion, or any other ideas. Prayers in American schools are not allowed. I'd say at least in schools it's increasingly becoming that way.

How can at best one good semester at public or private school in a biology class compare to their entire lifetime up to that point of religious education through their parents and the church.

To feel threatened in this manner doesn't say much for the logical arguments given for creationism and the God hypothesis.

 

[Captain Civic]

How can at best one good semester at public or private school in a biology class compare to their entire lifetime up to that point of religious education through their parents and the church.

To feel threatened in this manner doesn't say much for the logical arguments given for creationism and the God hypothesis.

I'm saying that it's being replaced. God was once taught in school that there was a creation in that sense, but it's not there anymore. I'm not debating that it makes people with faith lose it, I'm just saying that evolution has replaced creationism in schools (whether you think that is correct or not doesn't matter, it's merely a statement of fact.)

And not everyone hears about religion outside of school. A lot of kids don't know anything about it.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

I mean would'nt it be a rather interesting study to place a piece of modern machinery such as a brand new car and leaving the key in the ignition into the presence of tribes who have never even seen a white man or technology for that matter.
Just thinking about it,would they be so dense to think that it just happened over years and years or would it be more probable they associate it and it's ability to a god or powerful source.

No, they'd probably think that god did it. And they'd be wrong, wouldn't they?
Why you'd come up with something that makes the point that just because it's 'obviously' the work of god doesn't mean god had a thing to do with it I'm not sure, but you keep hammering away at those pesky evolutioninst and see if you can't make a few more points for their argument.

 

[McBell]

I'm saying that it's being replaced. God was once taught in school that there was a creation in that sense, but it's not there anymore. I'm not debating that it makes people with faith lose it, I'm just saying that evolution has replaced creationism in schools (whether you think that is correct or not doesn't matter, it's merely a statement of fact.)

And not everyone hears about religion outside of school. A lot of kids don't know anything about it.

What schools and when?
Neither of my parents where taught 'creationism' in school. ( I asked them, they said no)
I was never taught creationism in school.
.

 

[BucephalusBB]

I was never taught creationism in school.
.

I was.. :yes:
Allong with evolution that is..

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I was in school in the 40's-50's and never even heard of creationism.
and it was a Private church school.. two chapel services every day three on Sundays, and two RE classes every week (Christian religion only).
Science classes included where appropriate the theory of evolution. It was never even questioned from a religious standpoint... after all that argument had been concluded 100 years before.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I disagree. Evolution is taught in schools that it is the correct (or most correct till this point) statement of where we came from. Any religious views are ousted. Not even a hint of creationism of any religion, or any other ideas.

How do you see this as different from how any other well-supported scientific theory is taught?

We don't have schools teach phlogiston theory (Wiki explanation, more amusing dinosaur explanation) alongside the accepted theory of combustion; we don't "teach the controversy" on that issue.

Why do you think that science and education should vary their methods for evolution and evolution alone? The theory of evolution has just as much support as the theory of combustion by oxidation; if this level of support is enough to throw out the alternate theories in the one case, why do you want special treatment for the other case?

 

[Willamena]

I disagree. Evolution is taught in schools that it is the correct (or most correct till this point) statement of where we came from.

Everything you are taught in schools is correct, even if it's wrong. If it gets you that passing grade, it's correct (trust me on this).

 

[Willamena]

How do you see this as different from how any other well-supported scientific theory is taught?

We don't have schools teach phlogiston theory (Wiki explanation, more amusing dinosaur explanation) alongside the accepted theory of combustion; we don't "teach the controversy" on that issue.

Good point. I would add that in order to understand the controversy about any subject, it is necessary first to understand the subject.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Everything you are taught in schools is correct, even if it's wrong. If it gets you that passing grade, it's correct (trust me on this).

That is very cynical... But to pass exams it is correct...at least at the lower levels.
However don't stop developing your own ideas and read widely.
But if it is not on the syllabus it is usually best to keep such things to yourself.

 

[Autodidact]

I disagree. Evolution is taught in schools that it is the correct (or most correct till this point) statement of where we came from. Any religious views are ousted. Not even a hint of creationism of any religion, or any other ideas. Prayers in American schools are not allowed. I'd say at least in schools it's increasingly becoming that way.

Do you agree or disagree with this trend?

 

[roli]

Yes, exactly.
THE FIRST ANCESTOR OF WHAT?

Exactly. I try to explain them in simple terms, however.

It was a hypothesis before it was verified; now it's theory.
You do that. You're only 100 years behind.
Oh yes, lots of evidence, but I want to explain the theory first, and then get to the evidence, if you don't mind.

Did I say there is no evidence? There's tons of it. It's going to take pages, believe me. No, evolution doesn't stop, it's still going on right now.

Maybe what's going to happen?

Are you saying, that the common ancestor of man is the chimp.
If this is the consensus, than who was the chimps ancestor,

It's like pulling teeth to get a straight answer.
I would than like to know if evolutionists ultimately believe life came from non life and if not where did life come from, because the world according to evolutionists, the world was first, than the life came after ,from whence didst they cometh???????
Or did life always exist , just in an embryonic suspended state,with it's vast potential to mutate and evolve randomly into complex life forms such as man.

Just a side thought and I know, christians are'nt suppose to think or don't do it very well, but a question to the elite of society, the higher thinkers,
If evolution was so random,how can there be so much order,for instance concerning the forming of the eye alone, how can the eye both evolve randomly when it is one of the most sophisticated and percise appendages of the human anatomy, yet when the process is studied, the process is one of intricate order and in such percise degree it is astounding.
I mean milions of optical nerve endings in a new born baby are growing from the eye towards the optic center in the brain and each one must find it's match,what are the chances of natural selection and random mutation causing this .
It's more amazing how this happens perfectly everyday with thousands of new births
If one believes this happened by chance, they must still believe in Santa Claus
Darwin even questions the probabilities of this happening by natural selection and concludes it's absurd to even consider it.

 

[Autodidact]

Autodidact,

Since Roli is evading your questions and wrapping his own in unnecessary gobbledeguck, I'll translate.

Question: What is the common ancestor for chimps and humans?

I already answered that the common ancestor likely existed between 5 and 7 million years ago, but he ignored me. I hope you have better luck than me!

Oh. I don't know actually. I have no special expertise in this area, and I think anthropologists are still arguing over it. I guess they think it was something called a Panini, around 7 million years ago? Why do you ask, roli?
Here's a few web resources:
Evolution - Introduction - 1
The First Hominid
Hominid Evolution, Australopithecus afarensis africanus anamensis, Homo sapiens neanderthal neandertalensis heidelbergensis antecessor ergaster erectus rudolfensis habilis, Paranthropus boisei robustus aethiopicus, Ardipithecus ramidus, Hominid speci

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Are you saying, that the common ancestor of man is the chimp.
If this is the consensus, than who was the chimps ancestor,

It's like pulling teeth to get a straight answer.
I would than like to know if evolutionists ultimately believe life came from non life and if not where did life come from, because the world according to evolutionists, the world was first, than the life came after ,from whence didst they cometh???????
Or did life always exist , just in an embryonic suspended state,with it's vast potential to mutate and evolve randomly into complex life forms such as man.

Just a side thought and I know, christians are'nt suppose to think or don't do it very well, but a question to the elite of society, the higher thinkers,
If evolution was so random,how can there be so much order,for instance concerning the forming of the eye alone, how can the eye both evolve randomly when it is one of the most sophisticated and percise appendages of the human anatomy, yet when the process is studied, the process is one of intricate order and in such percise degree it is astounding.
I mean milions of optical nerve endings in a new born baby are growing from the eye towards the optic center in the brain and each one must find it's match,what are the chances of natural selection and random mutation causing this .
It's more amazing how this happens perfectly everyday with thousands of new births
If one believes this happened by chance, they must still believe in Santa Claus
Darwin even questions the probabilities of this happening by natural selection and concludes it's absurd to even consider it.

It's like pulling teeth to get you to read and comprehend the answers you've been repeatedly given...the difference being that when you pull a tooth the pain goes away whereas here there appears little likelyhood of relief.
Not one person in this debate has said the chimp is any sort of ancestor of man, except you in your continual repitition of the stupid question you've once again posed above. What has been continually stated is that man and the little chimpy share a common ancestor.Much the same way as my cousin and I share a common ancestor, and for reasons which shouldn't need to be stated, my cousin isn't the common ancestor himself.
Please try and actually take in the information you are continually being given.
Honestly, if there's a god he must really want to bang his head against a wall in the face of such wilfull ignorance.:banghead3

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are you saying, that the common ancestor of man is the chimp.
If this is the consensus, than who was the chimps ancestor,

It's like pulling teeth to get a straight answer.

Here's the straightest answer you're going to get: we know as far back as the root of the eukarya, bacteria and archaea kingdoms, though the original ancestors in those families don't have specific names. The section from the original ancestor to the division of life into the three kingdoms is less clear, but work is being done to fill in the gaps:

Presumably because of sideways gene traffic in the distant past, both archaea and eukarya seem to rely on bacterial-type genes to manage much of their general chemical metabolism. (The eukarya, thought to be descended from the archaea, rely on archaean-type genes to manage their DNA and to translate its genetic information into protein products.)

"It's possible that bacterial genes have swept all over the world and replaced everything else that existed, so some of the features of the last common ancestor may have been erased from the face of the planet," Koonin said.


But no one is abandoning the search for the ancestor. "My biggest fear is that evolution would be indecipherable because of all the random changes that took place," said Craig Venter of the Institute for Genomic Research in Rockville, Md. "The good news is that that is clearly not the case. I think it will be completely decipherable but because of horizontal transfer the tree may look more like a neural network," he said, referring to the criss-cross pattern of a neural computing circuit.
Venter, who pioneered the sequencing of microbial genomes, estimated that 50 to 100 more genomes needed to be sequenced to help triangulate back to the last common ancestor.

(source)

In single-celled organisms, it is relatively common for cells to acquire new genetic information by absorbing the DNA of other unrelated single-celled organisms. This makes it very difficult to trace the exact source of each bit of our genome to one single "trunk" of the "tree of life".

However, I don't see why this is such a big deal for you. Do you think people needed to visit every point on the planet before they could declare that the Earth is round? We know that from the early days of single-celled organisms to us, that evolution has governed the development of life on Earth.