Evolution: Do you see the resemblence

[Dirty Penguin]

How exactly does one prove creationism? If it could be proved, wouldn't someone have done it by now?

This is a great question.

 

[McBell]

Is this why they test certain products on mice? I've often wondered why they do that and say a certain product may be safe for humans.

Additionally, has any scientist done this study on pigs? I only ask because certain doctors say certain portion of pig anatomy may be compatible with humans. I haven't really looked into it but thought some one might know the answer....

Thanks for the info...

Might be.

Though I do know that there are medications that use mouse protiens:

Infliximab is a chimeric (a hybrid consisting of 75 percent human, 25 percent mouse protein) monoclonal antibody. The antibody works by blocking the immune system's production of tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha). This is a cytokine (chemical) that intensifies inflammation.

Source
​

 

[yossarian22]

Is this why they test certain products on mice? I've often wondered why they do that and say a certain product may be safe for humans.

Yep. They are small, inexpensive to purchase and maintain, and breed very quickly. Very useful in science. I think rats are used in psychological studies because they have a similar psychology to us. Not sure about the last bit. Got it from a psychology grad I was working with.

 

[Autodidact]

Well, as I find often happens on the internet, fundamentalist Christians who express a tremendous interest in discussing evolution have little interest in discussing the actual ToE. I wonder why that is. I'll just move along to the last bit then.

So, ToE says that this process I described is how new species come into the world. But the Grand ToE says that this is how we have gotten all the species on earth, that there was a common ancestor billions of years ago, that diverged into two species of primitive, ancient one-celled organisms, and so forth and so forth, all the way down to the present day, and the millions of different species alive today, as well as the many millions of extinct species no longer with us, that each and every species that has ever existed came into existence via the process I described, or a variation of it.

Again, any comments or questions from the creationists? Helpful additions and clarifications from the scientifically oriented? As time permits, I plan to move on to discuss the evidence that roli was asking about, and that persuaded the world of Biology to accept this theory around 100 years ago.

 

[Autodidact]

So I think it's interesting. I mean, you get people on this very board just ranting against ToE, and then when someone describes the actual ToE, suddenly they lose interest. It's almost as though they are ranting against something else entirely. Huh.

Well, if anyone's interested, I could start laying out the evidence that supports the ToE. The thing is, there's a lot of it, and setting it out will really take a lot of my time. So I don't want to bother if no ones interested. My past experience is that evidence is like a magic spray that makes creationists disappear. roli? Are you there? Anyone?

 

[painted wolf]

they are ranting about something else.

Evolution is just a target for their real issue... people not taking the Bible (or other holy writ) as 100% "gospel truth".

They can't have faith if the holy writ isn't 100% true and literal. Thus anything, that in any way, rocks their religious boat must be attacked.

wa:do

 

[McBell]

So I think it's interesting. I mean, you get people on this very board just ranting against ToE, and then when someone describes the actual ToE, suddenly they lose interest. It's almost as though they are ranting against something else entirely. Huh.

Well, if anyone's interested, I could start laying out the evidence that supports the ToE. The thing is, there's a lot of it, and setting it out will really take a lot of my time. So I don't want to bother if no ones interested. My past experience is that evidence is like a magic spray that makes creationists disappear. roli? Are you there? Anyone?

Nothing gets under the skin of a creationist like the truth about evolution.

 

[roli]

Well, as I find often happens on the internet, fundamentalist Christians who express a tremendous interest in discussing evolution have little interest in discussing the actual ToE. I wonder why that is. I'll just move along to the last bit then.

I am starting to understand that the theory of evolution has most certainly changed in many ways from where it once was, at least from what I once knew it to be. Basically because they seem to so masterfully mask the big bang theory with alot more scientific names and jargon , appealing new sophisticated studies,avading the very early premise of what evolution was and avoiding past labels,such as man decending from apes and phrase it in more of an appealing term" common ancestor".A theory that is so full of holes, gaps, assumptions, missing links that are said to be just set backs and that require further study, yet is beleived, taught and endorsed by many influential people almost as a religion. I mean in my opinion, it takes more faith to assume man came from rocks , of course through a gradual process, random and natural selection than it requires for faith in God, maybe the evolutionists should apply for tax exemption.

I just can't come to terms with,the fact that intelligent people actually believe we came from inanimate, non living matter matter , in other words,they still beleive we such complex and sophisticated life forms came from a cosmic explosion.
If this is the case, this should be happening all around us,explosions creating order, complexities and life, yes, we all know things evolve,adapt, mutate, progress etc,but to think we came from rocks and blobs of bacteria etc,well ,that takes exceptional faith and an almost evangelical ability to convince the rest of the world of such preposterous assumptions.

So, ToE says that this process I described is how new species come into the world.

It almost sounds like ToE is some idol , ToE says this and ToE says that ,no my friend, it's man says this and man makes up this

But the Grand ToE says that this is how we have gotten all the species on earth, that there was a common ancestor billions of years ago, that diverged into two species of primitive, ancient one-celled organisms, and so forth and so forth, all the way down to the present day, and the millions of different species alive today, as well as the many millions of extinct species no longer with us, that each and every species that has ever existed came into existence via the process I described, or a variation of it.

There it is again, "the Grand ToE says ",LOL!!! ,where is the mention of the assumed explosions that are thought to create the order and life we now see,why not mention this, I know ,your saying, well we don't have all the facts ,were studying further, getting closer, but what your really doing is avading the point, that is ToE, actually believes we evolved from rock
What the "Grand ToE does'nt mention is what becomes illusive!!!

any comments or questions from the creationists? Helpful additions and clarifications from the scientifically oriented? As time permits, I plan to move on to discuss the evidence that roli was asking about, and that persuaded the world of Biology to accept this theory around 100 years ago

Ouch ,scientifically oriented, and creationists are'nt or can't read and understand the big toe and all hypothetical theories and assumptions.
If you call ultimately believing intelligent life came from rock, inanimate matter, you are certainly oriented, but I would be reluctant to imply science is behind it.
How about a very vivd imagination and wishful thinking.

All I can say is that this ToE bucket has enormous holes in it, but I admire the faith it takes to be so evangelically persistent in believing ToE,despite it's missing links ,assumptions and fictious unerlying belief and conclusion,we came from rock.

 

[roli]

Nothing gets under the skin of a creationist like the truth about evolution.

Truth, you can't handle the truth ,LOL!!!!!

If ToE is truth ,I shall live the lie!!!

As a ToE believer ,man is left with the enormous pressure and responsibility to find the answer to verify this as truth.

Christians believe Jesus is the "Truth" and he will someday prove it to the world, but by then it will be to late to receive the truth,

 

[Autodidact]

I am starting to understand that the theory of evolution has most certainly changed in many ways from where it once was, at least from what I once knew it to be.

It has, but what I described is the very basic core idea, that has not changed much, if at all, in the last century.

Basically because they seem to so masterfully mask the big bang theory with alot more scientific names and jargon , appealing new sophisticated studies,avading the very early premise of what evolution was and avoiding past labels,such as man decending from apes and phrase it in more of an appealing term" common ancestor".

I really tried to avoid any scientific jargon, and the Big Bang theory, which I don't fully understand, is from an entirely different field of science, cosmology. It has nothing to do with evolution.

A theory that is so full of holes, gaps, assumptions, missing links that are said to be just set backs and that require further study, yet is beleived, taught and endorsed by many influential people almost as a religion.

Well, I haven't even started laying out the evidence yet, but since you allege it is insufficient, I will do so as I have time. As I said, there is a lot of it, so it will take a lot of time. I will appreciate it if you will stick with the thread and respond.

I mean in my opinion, it takes more faith to assume man came from rocks , of course through a gradual process, random and natural selection than it requires for faith in God, maybe the evolutionists should apply for tax exemption.

Rocks do not come into the theory in any way.

I just can't come to terms with,the fact that intelligent people actually believe we came from inanimate, non living matter matter ,

I know this is being hard for you to grasp, but I'm getting tired of saying it. Abiogenesis is outside the scope of ToE.

in other words,they still beleive we such complex and sophisticated life forms came from a cosmic explosion.

Well, let's not take on all of modern science just yet, although I understand that you are opposed to all of it, not just biology. Let's just stick to one little corner for now, since we have enough to deal with.

If this is the case, this should be happening all around us,explosions creating order, complexities and life, yes, we all know things evolve,adapt, mutate, progress etc,but to think we came from rocks and blobs of bacteria etc,well ,that takes exceptional faith and an almost evangelical ability to convince the rest of the world of such preposterous assumptions.

No, just evidence. And yes, evolution is happening all around us. Biologists observe it happening even now.

It almost sounds like ToE is some idol , ToE says this and ToE says that ,no my friend, it's man says this and man makes up this

Of course. It goes without saying that people figured it all out. However, the thread is about ToE, so I'm describing it. I'm sorry that you have nothing substantive to say, but this is just silly.

There it is again, "the Grand ToE says ",LOL!!! ,where is the mention of the assumed explosions that are thought to create the order and life we now see,why not mention this, I know ,your saying, well we don't have all the facts ,were studying further, getting closer, but what your really doing is avading the point, that is ToE, actually believes we evolved from rock

No, it doesn't. Sorry, you're wrong. There are no explosions in ToE, and no rocks. It seems like you are actually opposed to some theory that doesn't exist. That's why I think it's helpful to explain what it actually says.

What the "Grand ToE does'nt mention is what becomes illusive!!!

I'm sure that roli is right, and all the world's biologists are just a bunch of idiots. Maybe you should write a book and set them all straight.

Ouch ,scientifically oriented, and creationists are'nt or can't read and understand the big toe and all hypothetical theories and assumptions.

I'm sure you're capable of it, if you set your mind to it.

If you call ultimately believing intelligent life came from rock, inanimate matter, you are certainly oriented, but I would be reluctant to imply science is behind it.

This thread isn't about my ultimate beliefs. It's about ToE.

All I can say is that this ToE bucket has enormous holes in it, but I admire the faith it takes to be so evangelically persistent in believing ToE,despite it's missing links ,assumptions and fictious unerlying belief and conclusion,we came from rock.

Well, I'll be laying out the evidence, and then we'll all have a chance to evaluate how well supported it is. Please stick with me and don't get overwhelmed by the quantity of scientific material. If you don't understand something I say, please ask.

 

[Autodidact]

Truth, you can't handle the truth ,LOL!!!!!

If ToE is truth ,I shall live the lie!!!

Proving once again the fundamental dishonesty inherent in creationism.

Christians believe Jesus is the "Truth" and he will someday prove it to the world, but by then it will be to late to receive the truth,

Yes, and so do all the Christians who accept ToE. Remember, we are all assuming for the purpose of this thread that God exists. We are only studying His creation to find out how He did it.

 

[Darkness]

If ToE is truth ,I shall live the lie!!!

So, no amount of evidence presented to you could ever change your mind.

 

[Jistyr]

Truth, you can't handle the truth ,LOL!!!!!

If ToE is truth ,I shall live the lie!!!

As a ToE believer ,man is left with the enormous pressure and responsibility to find the answer to verify this as truth.

Christians believe Jesus is the "Truth" and he will someday prove it to the world, but by then it will be to late to receive the truth,

Strangely, you created this thread to see evolutionary theories, yet you did so without the intention of appropriately considering or debating them. Roli, you are as narrow-minded as ever.

If you believe that evolution states that man comes from rocks (which is obviously so much worse than the Bible telling us that we came from dirt) then you honestly need to study evolution from an unbiased persepective, but I still expect that you will never understand the subject of which you debate, and you will continue to ignorantly spew out one fallacy after another.

The idea that one 'cannot feed medicine to the dead' has never rung more true.

 

[Autodidact]

Now, now, let's not give up. It's a worthwhile effort to explain evolutionary theory. If roli does not decide to accept it, he will become a better opponent, because he will actually know what it is he's arguing against. True, he hasn't understood it yet, but hope springs eternal.

 

[McBell]

Truth, you can't handle the truth ,LOL!!!!!

If ToE is truth ,I shall live the lie!!!

As a ToE believer ,man is left with the enormous pressure and responsibility to find the answer to verify this as truth.

Christians believe Jesus is the "Truth" and he will someday prove it to the world, but by then it will be to late to receive the truth,

Passion rules reason.
You demonstrate it well right here.

Funny thing is, you have been shown to be wrong at almost every turn you attempt.
Yet you still cling desperately to the lies you continously spout.
Then you accuse those who are presenting the truth as being the ones with the lies.

If you disagree with evolution, that is fine with me.
But at least have the honour to honestly argue against it.

 

[nutshell]

It's for times like this I have my sig. I think it applies well to Roli in this situation. Roli, please take it as a compliment. It's from one of my favorite characters from one of my favorite novels.

 

[roli]

So, no amount of evidence presented to you could ever change your mind.

Listen ,some of the studies are excellent,and beneficial to knowing our planet etc, that has never been the issue with me,my issue is the ultimate assumption evolutionists believe we come from rock ,disorder creates order,life from non life, believe if you choose,that is a bit steep for this guy.
I can't understand the eagerness to associate to such a hopeless and purposeless existence, but ,hey, knock yourself out.

As for me and my home , we will serve the Lord and live in relationship and anticipation to someday be with him forever.

 

[roli]

Passion rules reason.
You demonstrate it well right here.

You call it reason ,I call what I have a relationship with the one we will all someday meet.

Funny thing is, you have been shown to be wrong at almost every turn you attempt.

I guess we will see when we all open our eyes on the other side

Yet you still cling desperately to the lies you continously spout.
Then you accuse those who are presenting the truth as being the ones with the lies.

Truth is relative I guess in this situation,but again. that day will reveal truth to us all

If you disagree with evolution, that is fine with me.
But at least have the honour to honestly argue against it

Where does one start and where would you finish, I'll leave the discussion to the brilliant thinkers, who think life comes from non life, order,from disorder

 

[Papersock]

Listen ,some of the studies are excellent,and beneficial to knowing our planet etc, that has never been the issue with me,my issue is the ultimate assumption evolutionists believe we come from rock ,disorder creates order,life from non life, believe if you choose,that is a bit steep for this guy.
I can't understand the eagerness to associate to such a hopeless and purposeless existence, but ,hey, knock yourself out.

No one is saying we came from rocks. That has nothing to do with evolution. Why do you keep insisting that it does?

Natural processes create order all the time. Stars, planets, crystals, snowflakes, pearls, etc… These are not living things, of course, but it is order created from disorder.

Belief in evolution does not equal a hopeless and purposeless existence.

 

[sandandfoam]

Natural processes create order all the time. Stars, planets, crystals, snowflakes, pearls, etc… These are not living things, of course, but it is order created from disorder..

How can one square this apparent emergence of order from disorder with the second law of thermodynamics?

Belief in evolution does not equal a hopeless and purposeless existence.

I agree.