Evolution: Do you see the resemblence

[Autodidact]

Listen ,some of the studies are excellent,and beneficial to knowing our planet etc, that has never been the issue with me,my issue is the ultimate assumption evolutionists believe we come from rock ,disorder creates order,life from non life, believe if you choose,that is a bit steep for this guy.

Have you been paying any attention? There is no such thing as an evolutionist. There is a theory called evolution, and it has nothing to do with rock, disorder, the origin of life. I have tried to describe the actual ToE to you. If you doubt me, I can link you to some sites so you can see that my explanation, while simplified, is essentially correct. That's the actual theory we're discussing here. If you want to talk about rocks, explosions, and abiogenesis, feel free, just don't call it evolution. Remember, we're all assuming here that God created the world and everything in it, O.K.?

I can't understand the eagerness to associate to such a hopeless and purposeless existence, but ,hey, knock yourself out.

Me neither, nor does it have anything to do with this thread.

s for me and my home , we will serve the Lord and live in relationship and anticipation to someday be with him forever.

So have you grasped yet that we are all assuming this? We are not arguing with this? Nor is anyone trying to dissuade you from this belief. We are trying to find out exactly How God created all these different species; that's all.

 

[Autodidact]

Where does one start and where would you finish, I'll leave the discussion to the brilliant thinkers, who think life comes from non life, order,from disorder

No none here has advocated this position. Please listen carefully, or do I need to bring out the large colored fonts? Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life or chaos theory. These subjects have nothing to do with evolution. Evolution does not claim that life comes from non-life (although it is difficult to imagine that there have always been living things) or that order comes from disorder. You are off the point. You've lost sight of the actual ToE, which is what I have described to you in this thread. Really. That's it. That's what you've been railing against all these years, roli, a scientific theory about how new species come into being.

 

[Autodidact]

How can one square this apparent emergence of order from disorder with the second law of thermodynamics?

Applies only to closed systems in which there is no energy input. Here on earth we have a rather large external source of energy.

 

[Papersock]

How can one square this apparent emergence of order from disorder with the second law of thermodynamics?

I think I found an answer to that from this site: The Law of Maximum Entrnopy Production

If the world selects those dynamics that minimize potentials at the fastest rate given the constraints, and if ordered flow is more efficient at reducing potentials than disordered flow, then the world will select order whenever it gets the chance. Theworld is in the order production business because ordered flow produces entropy faster than disordered flow.

Does that make sense?
I think because the second law of thermodynamics has more to do with energy than with order and disorder. Nature always tries to reach a state of equilibrium. Order happens to be more stable than disorder.

 

[sandandfoam]

Applies only to closed systems in which there is no energy input. Here on earth we have a rather large external source of energy.

Thanks for the response, if my next question is a stupid one I apologise in advance but this material is new to me.
I was thinking that the laws applied on a universal scale and thinking of the universe as a closed system (I was conceptualising it like a baloon) due to the fact that the universe is still expanding, am I wrong?

 

[sandandfoam]

I think I found an answer to that from this site: The Law of Maximum Entrnopy Production



Does that make sense?
I think because the second law of thermodynamics has more to do with energy than with order and disorder. Nature always tries to reach a state of equilibrium. Order happens to be more stable than disorder.

Thanks for the answer. I need to think about this..

 

[Autodidact]

Thanks for the response, if my next question is a stupid one I apologise in advance but this material is new to me.
I was thinking that the laws applied on a universal scale and thinking of the universe as a closed system (I was conceptualising it like a baloon) due to the fact that the universe is still expanding, am I wrong?

I don't find it a stupid question but unfortunately outside of my expertise. Are you familiar with the Internet Infidels Board? I started a thread there called Stupid Questions (in the science forum) where you can ask any science question and actual Ph.d type guys will answer it in simple terms. I'm actually pretty late to science and find it very hard. It took me years to really understand evolution, and now they're all talking about epigenetics and have lost me again.

 

[Storm]

I don't find it a stupid question but unfortunately outside of my expertise. Are you familiar with the Internet Infidels Board? I started a thread there called Stupid Questions (in the science forum) where you can ask any science question and actual Ph.d type guys will answer it in simple terms. I'm actually pretty late to science and find it very hard. It took me years to really understand evolution, and now they're all talking about epigenetics and have lost me again.

I tried IIDB, but left due to feeling decidedly unwelcome. It's a great board for atheists, but frankly mean-spirited toward anyone who dares believe in any form of God.

BTW, I have to disagree that there's no such thing as an evolutionist - I would have to describe myself thusly. Of course, that's because evolution is a key element of my theology, which admittedly goes beyond the scope of the theory.

 

[fantome profane]

my issue is the ultimate assumption evolutionists believe we come from rock ,disorder creates order,life from non life,

So to be precise, if this is your issue, then you have no issue with “evolutionists”. Your issue is with “abiogenesisists” (try saying that word 3 times fast). But I suspect that your real issue is with atheists
(atheismists ). So let me repeat a couple of points that people have been trying to make over and over in this threads (and others threads).

• The theory of evolution is not the theory that there is no God.
• The theory of evolution is not the theory that we come from rock.

But please let me ask you one question. Why do you think it is possible that “God” could create a fully formed man from dust, but that it would be impossible for “God” to create life from non-life and then allow it to evolve into a man?

 

[roli]

Strangely, you created this thread to see evolutionary theories, yet you did so without the intention of appropriately considering or debating them. Roli, you are as narrow-minded as ever.

I just relaised how futile this arguement actually is, I respect your belief and understand more about your position than you think,I just don't desire to blow wind about such a hypothesis.

If you believe that evolution states that man comes from rocks (which is obviously so much worse than the Bible telling us that we came from dirt) then you honestly need to study evolution from an unbiased persepective, but I still expect that you will never understand the subject of which you debate, and you will continue to ignorantly spew out one fallacy after another

.
If man never came from rock and man never always existed, where did the first life form come, please don't say we just evolved. Where did man come from

The idea that one 'cannot feed medicine to the dead' has never rung more true

Likewise, the day that death rings true for you,maybe the only time you will see the truth for what it is.
Which will be , Evolution or creation, because it certainly won't be cleared up in this life.

 

[nutshell]

One day, some amino acids interacted and formed a protein. The rest is history.

 

[Storm]

If man never came from rock and man never always existed, where did the first life form come, please don't say we just evolved. Where did man come from

The issue of how life arose from non-life is abiogenesis, not evolution. Evolution states that we evolved from earlier, more primitive lifeforms.

 

[Willamena]

If man never came from rock and man never always existed, where did the first life form come, please don't say we just evolved. Where did man come from

First, "man" was not the first life-form. Second, we don't know where the first life-form came from. Thrid, the Theory of Evolution isn't really concerned with any of that, as much as you are.

 

[Autodidact]

I just relaised how futile this arguement actually is, I respect your belief and understand more about your position than you think,I just don't desire to blow wind about such a hypothesis.

Great. How about you never start another thread on the subject then, O.K.? And, as a favor, please stop spreading lies about a scientific theory, deal?
.

If man never came from rock and man never always existed, where did the first life form come, please don't say we just evolved. Where did man come from

I believe that someone has already started a thread on this subject just for you, so I suggest you raise this question there.

Likewise, the day that death rings true for you,maybe the only time you will see the truth for what it is.
Which will be , Evolution or creation, because it certainly won't be cleared up in this life.

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion on this subject, since none of us know. Personally, I think I'll be dead, and won't know anything. Oh, and so will you.

 

[McBell]

You call it reason ,I call what I have a relationship with the one we will all someday meet.

That is nice.
I hope you all get along great.
However, it has nothing to do with evolution.

I guess we will see when we all open our eyes on the other side

And what does this have to do with evolution?

Truth is relative I guess in this situation,but again. that day will reveal truth to us all

There is no such thing as an absolute religious truth.
And what does this have to do with evolution?

Where does one start and where would you finish, I'll leave the discussion to the brilliant thinkers, who think life comes from non life, order,from disorder

And you still show that you refuse to learn anything about evolution.
You still cling desperately to your lies and misinformation.
I lost count of how many times what you call evolution has been shown to be anything BUT evolution.

Where does one start?
How about you learn what evolution ACTUALLY is.

Of course, if you did that, you would have to stop using all the pre-made cookie cutter strawman arguments you so diligently cling to.

 

[Ceridwen018]

All this talk about "where the first life forms came from!?"

Early-earth conditions have been simulated in labs, and scientists have been able to get organic material from inorganic materials, or a man from a rock if you really want to dumb it down. Add a couple billion years of evolution, and voila!

 

[Autodidact]

All this talk about "where the first life forms came from!?"

Early-earth conditions have been simulated in labs, and scientists have been able to get organic material from inorganic materials, or a man from a rock if you really want to dumb it down. Add a couple billion years of evolution, and voila!

Don't take the bait; we created another thread for this entirely separate topic.

 

[Willamena]

Don't take the bait; we created another thread for this entirely separate topic.

Go us!

 

[Zeno]

Before derailing this thread into a debate on abiogenesis and the origin of life (which I'm sure many would be happy to do), I request on behalf of all the participants that you cede the points on evolution that you were wrong about. Be as specific as possible.

The two topics are wholly distinct, and I think this is a reasonable request before the subject is changed.

If man never came from rock and man never always existed, where did the first life form come, please don't say we just evolved. Where did man come from

I see my request was not taken seriously.

 

[Autodidact]

I see my request was not taken seriously.

However, a low-flying pig just passed my upstairs window, and the radio weather report for Hell called for a hard frost.