Evolution is a Big Lie

[Iti oj]

I guess i can buy into evolution as far as things changing but its only from the point of view of things going from order to disorder.This seems to be observed in everyday common knowledge. This seems to ring true intuitively.
I guess I was wanting to know what facts are the scientists standing on that says things are evolving upward and toward order instead of changing from order to disorder.
If someone knows enough about evolution to give me just a few of the facts without having to read and study a bunch of links that would be appreciated.
Like I said I can buy into the idea that everything starts with information in tact and looses information overtime.

Im a laymen but i know their is an answer. Dawkins answers this in his book in the god delusion. I also recommend most of his books on evolution and biology. like the blind watch maker. I'll make a Google search for you.

 

[outhouse]

but its only from the point of view of things going from order to disorder.This seems to be observed in everyday common knowledge.

order and disorder have nothing to do with it at all.

I guess i can buy into evolution

with a positive attitude we have scientist here that will go out of their way to teach as well as our normal crew.

Like I said I can buy into the idea that everything starts with information in tact and looses information overtime.

thats a falsehood and it doesnt work that way.

there are changes due to enviromental changes.

say humans ran hours every day on a normal basis and spent time leaping and jumping while running. In the future our bodies would slowly change to increased lung capacity, larger longer legs and a stomach that would proccess food faster.

this has nothing to do with order or disorder

 

[Iti oj]

I guess i can buy into evolution as far as things changing but its only from the point of view of things going from order to disorder.This seems to be observed in everyday common knowledge. This seems to ring true intuitively.
I guess I was wanting to know what facts are the scientists standing on that says things are evolving upward and toward order instead of changing from order to disorder.
If someone knows enough about evolution to give me just a few of the facts without having to read and study a bunch of links that would be appreciated.
Like I said I can buy into the idea that everything starts with information in tact and looses information overtime.

Richard Dawkins The Only One in Step - Richard Dawkins - RichardDawkins.net

The Second Law recognizes a similar downhill slide towards disorder in any closed system such as the universe, which lacks a source of externally supplied energy. In a local region with externally supplied energy, on the other hand, we may see what look like reversals, but the stress must be on 'local' and 'externally supplied'. Life on Earth may evolve towards greater complexity and increased order, but this is only possible because of a massive transfusion of energy from the sun. To return to the library analogy, natural selection, the nonrandom survival of successful genes in gene pools, could be called the librarian of life. And the energy to power it comes ultimately from the sun. The overall trend of the thermodynamic river is still downhill. But a small tithe of the sun's energy is trapped by plants and used to power a trickle in the reverse direction. This reverse trickle is to be found not only in evolution but in the physiology of every individual organism, and in many chemical reactions. It is like a ram pump, which uses the energy of a flowing river to pump a small quantity of the water uphill.

 

[outhouse]

this is a good read

Common descent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Walkntune]

If man was intelligently designed and not evolved why do we have tail bones? Why do males have nipples? whyn do we have appendixes? why doesnt our back bone curve a way more appropriate for bipedal creatures?????

I understand what you are saying but it is not proving to me that we evolved from a place of less information but it actually supports the idea that we have more information than needed or so we assume.

 

[Walkntune]

this is a good read

Common descent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i will read it tomorrow as it is getting late to take it in tonight.

 

[Iti oj]

I understand what you are saying but it is not proving to me that we evolved from a place of less information but it actually supports the idea that we have more information than needed.

You misunderstand, what we evolved from was no less complex then we are just cmplex in different ways, when complexity does increase its ever ever so slightly. see my other post.

 

[Shermana]

If man was intelligently designed and not evolved why do we have tail bones? Why do males have nipples? whyn do we have appendixes? why doesnt our back bone curve a way more appropriate for bipedal creatures?????

I'll pay for your tailbone removal if you want if you think its so useless. Just wear diapers. You might need crutches too.

There are several muscles that attach to the tailbone, including the gluteus maximus, the levator ani, the sphincter ani externis and the coccygeus. These muscles all play important roles in standing, bowelcontrol and pelvic floor support.

Read more: About the Tail Bone | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_4595962_the-tail-bone.html#ixzz1dH90yELK
​

Why is the backbone anything less than ideal for bipedalism, and why wouldn't it have evolved to be as perfectly curved as you think it should be?


The Appendix has a function too.

What is the function of the human appendix? Did it once have a purpose that has since been lost? : Scientific American

"Among adult humans, the appendix is now thought to be involved primarily in immune functions. Lymphoid tissue begins to accumulate in the appendix shortly after birth and reaches a peak between the second and third decades of life, decreasing rapidly thereafter and practically disappearing after the age of 60. During the early years of development, however, the appendix has been shown to function as a lymphoid organ, assisting with the maturation of B lymphocytes (one variety of white blood cell) and in the production of the class of antibodies known as immunoglobulin A (IgA) antibodies. Researchers have also shown that the appendix is involved in the production of molecules that help to direct the movement of lymphocytes to various other locations in the body.
"In this context, the function of the appendix appears to be to expose white blood cells to the wide variety of antigens, or foreign substances, present in the gastrointestinal tract. Thus, the appendix probably helps to suppress potentially destructive humoral (blood- and lymph-borne) antibody responses while promoting local immunity. The appendix--like the tiny structures called Peyer's patches in other areas of the gastrointestinal tract--takes up antigens from the contents of the intestines and reacts to these contents. This local immune system plays a vital role in the physiological immune response and in the control of food, drug, microbial or viral antigens. The connection between these local immune reactions and inflammatory bowel diseases, as well as autoimmune reactions in which the individual's own tissues are attacked by the immune system, is currently under investigation.
"In the past, the appendix was often routinely removed and discarded during other abdominal surgeries to prevent any possibility of a later attack of appendicitis; the appendix is now spared in case it is needed later for reconstructive surgery if the urinary bladder is removed. In such surgery, a section of the intestine is formed into a replacement bladder, and the appendix is used to re-create a 'sphincter muscle' so that the patient remains continent (able to retain urine). In addition, the appendix has been successfully fashioned into a makeshift replacement for a diseased ureter, allowing urine to flow from the kidneys to the bladder. As a result, the appendix, once regarded as a nonfunctional tissue, is now regarded as an important 'back-up' that can be used in a variety of reconstructive surgical techniques. It is no longer routinely removed and discarded if it is healthy.

As for nipples, they are proof AGAINST evolution, aren't they. We all start as a female chassis. As for their function, that remains a mystery, but why weren't they weeded out years ago like supposedly how tails were? If we can find out years later that the Appendix has a function when once was thought not to, perhaps Nipples will as well.

 

[outhouse]

they are proof AGAINST evolution,

only for the uneducated

 

[Iti oj]

I'll pay for your tailbone removal if you want if you think its so useless. Just wear diapers. You might need crutches too.

Read more: About the Tail Bone | eHow.com About the Tail Bone | eHow.com
​

Why is the backbone anything less than ideal for bipedalism, and why wouldn't it have evolved to be as perfectly curved as you think it should be?


The Appendix has a function too.

What is the function of the human appendix? Did it once have a purpose that has since been lost? : Scientific American

As for nipples, they are proof AGAINST evolution, aren't they. We all start as a female chassis. As for their function, that remains a mystery, but why weren't they weeded out years ago like supposedly how tails were? If we can find out years later that the Appendix has a function when once was thought not to, perhaps Nipples will as well.

I never said anything was useless. you put that word in my mouth. of course we need our tail bone we evolved that why, my question is why design us that way? the appendix if it does have the use you suggest with you link and qoute(thank you btw) use to have a much larger and more important role. Why wouldnt evultion evolve the perfect back? were still evolving, not done yet, has not had time time to fix itself maybe, maybe evolution does not require perfection just something that works. We evolved from quadrupeds, our backbone shows this. As for my nipple example, its all about what happens between when we were conceived and when we are born.

I don't bring up these examples to support evolution though some of the examples do. I bring up the examples to point out the lack of intelligent design. You can keep twisting and you can keep hiding or you can start discussing this with me in earnest.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I understand what you are saying but it is not proving to me that we evolved from a place of less information but it actually supports the idea that we have more information than needed or so we assume.

Take humans and chimpanzees. We know for a fact that we're genetically related. There's is no escaping this. When we consider that humans have 46 chromosomes and chimpanzees have 48 then one might assume they have more info in their genetic code than we do so we must be able to scan the genome and find that we in fact had 48 chromosomes...and when we found it at Chromosome #2 and that the chromosomes fused then evolution confirmed what we expected it to.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I never said anything was useless. you put that word in my mouth. of course we need our tail bone we evolved that why, my question is why design us that way? the appendix if it does have the use you suggest with you link and qoute(thank you btw) use to have a much larger and more important role. Why wouldnt evultion evolve the perfect back? were still evolving, not done yet, has not had time time to fix itself maybe, maybe evolution does not require perfection just something that works. We evolved from quadrupeds, our backbone shows this. As for my nipple example, its all about what happens between when we were conceived and when we are born.

I don't bring up these examples to support evolution though some of the examples do. I bring up the examples to point out the lack of intelligent design. You can keep twisting and you can keep hiding or you can start discussing this with me in earnest.

I think we even had a thread around here asking why we have nipples. Now the appendix question is a good one because if its purpose is as Shermana's link suggest then I'm curious about the many of people out there that have had there's removed and why they seem to function very very well without it.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

As for nipples, they are proof AGAINST evolution, aren't they. We all start as a female chassis.

Not according to your scripture we weren't.

 

[tumbleweed41]

As for nipples, they are proof AGAINST evolution, aren't they. We all start as a female chassis. As for their function, that remains a mystery, but why weren't they weeded out years ago like supposedly how tails were? If we can find out years later that the Appendix has a function when once was thought not to, perhaps Nipples will as well.

Ah yes...

Nipples, the newest "Atheist Nightmare."


[youtube]sCqHbn7V7TU[/youtube]

 

[Walkntune]

I never said anything was useless. you put that word in my mouth. of course we need our tail bone we evolved that why, my question is why design us that way? the appendix if it does have the use you suggest with you link and qoute(thank you btw) use to have a much larger and more important role. Why wouldnt evultion evolve the perfect back? were still evolving, not done yet, has not had time time to fix itself maybe, maybe evolution does not require perfection just something that works. We evolved from quadrupeds, our backbone shows this. As for my nipple example, its all about what happens between when we were conceived and when we are born.

I don't bring up these examples to support evolution though some of the examples do. I bring up the examples to point out the lack of intelligent design. You can keep twisting and you can keep hiding or you can start discussing this with me in earnest.

Its hard for me to see it that way.I don't separate humans from the universe so the fact that you have intelligence and can observe the universe tells me the universe itself is intelligent and self observant.We are not just observing the universe, we are the universe and must be included in all we observe.I believe all new information that would be involved in evolution would have to exist somewhere in the universe and not come out of nowhere so for us to have intelligence it must come from somewhere.All of our intelligence seems to grow and be passed on from the shoulders of those who were before us and it even seems intelligence can be passed on through genes.
Since other then the sun supplying energy we live in a closed sytem that heads towards disorder that the sun supplies all information for intelligence .Does the sun have this information for intelligence?
So with natural selection only information that is already availble can be selected.Am I right?
With mutations I can Understand information being mutated but I assume it is because of a possibility of other information from another source affecting it so therefore causing change.
SO us humans appear to be the most intelligent creatures on the planet(at least in some aspects as I don't see to many other animals out in spaceships discovering space unless we put them there and we seem to dominate the earth and stand out from nature which might be a lack of intelligence....).The information for the universe to want to discover itself must come frome somewhere and have some purpose as to why it evolved.
At this point I can see that the world goes from Order to disorder and the fact that everything evolves with purpose is because of new information being added to our closed system from the sun.
Sounds like we are heading into some Nikola Tesla theories ( I assume science will only understand evolution through physics myself in other words energy wanting to take the least resistant path which I believe is the science behind all change and frequencies of energy grouping with like frequencies bound with magnetic fields.)
What evolution calls a mutation is really nothing more than a frequency change in certain cells as they are affected by outside frequencies.
I guess its hard for me to grasp evolution because it is more on the surface level of materialism and it only observes effects of change and them makes assumptions as to how they came about.
We can say chemicals cause this or that .... But i believe to understand evolution we need to understand what causes the chemicals.
I guess what i am trying to say in all of this is if we live in a closed system and the information that we get that keeps harmony and order insteadf of chaos comes from the sun, then why not try and study and understand from this source of energy instead of making wild assumptions on the observed affects? I mean we know what the source is right?
Why complicate the beauty of simplicity into a bunch of unbelieveable theories?
The effects are just that, effects? The cause is where the answer is.
Like Einstein says, he wanted to know the mind of God, the rest is just details.
Just asking honestly from the point of view of a layman trying to figure the world out from his front porch.

 

[Iti oj]

I think we even had a thread around here asking why we have nipples. Now the appendix question is a good one because if its purpose is as Shermana's link suggest then I'm curious about the many of people out there that have had there's removed and why they seem to function very very well without it.

Well i personally doubt the validate of the quote and link. Over all it does not matter. Even if it found a new use (which it does poorly and unnecessarily) it still had a different original use. If it were designed by an intelligent creator like you said why do so many people have to have theirs removed? Just using the human body alone there is tons of evidence for evolution, that or the intelligent designer failed biology and mechanics and engineering. If we are designed it was poorly done. ima try to find that thread unless you have link?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Ah yes...

Nipples, the newest "Atheist Nightmare."


[youtube]sCqHbn7V7TU[/youtube]

Excellent.....:yes:

 

[Iti oj]

Its hard for me to see it that way.I don't separate humans from the universe so the fact that you have intelligence and can observe the universe tells me the universe itself is intelligent and self observant.We are not just observing the universe, we are the universe and must be included in all we observe.I believe all new information that would be involved in evolution would have to exist somewhere in the universe and not come out of nowhere so for us to have intelligence it must come from somewhere.All of our intelligence seems to grow and be passed on from the shoulders of those who were before us and it even seems intelligence can be passed on through genes.
Since other then the sun supplying energy we live in a closed sytem that heads towards disorder that the sun supplies all information for intelligence .Does the sun have this information for intelligence?
So with natural selection only information that is already availble can be selected.Am I right?
With mutations I can Understand information being mutated but I assume it is because of a possibility of other information from another source affecting it so therefore causing change.
SO us humans appear to be the most intelligent creatures on the planet(at least in some aspects as I don't see to many other animals out in spaceships discovering space unless we put them there).The information for the universe to want to discover itself must come frome somewhere and have some purpose as to why it evolved.
At this point I can see that the world goes from Order to disorder and the fact that everything evolves with purpose is because of new information being added to our closed system from the sun.
Sounds like we are heading into some Nikola Tesla theories ( I assume science will only understand evolution through physics myself in other words energy wanting to take the least resistant path which I believe is the science behind all change and frequencies of energy grouping with like frequencies bound with magnetic fields.)
What evolution calls a mutation is really nothing more than a frequency change in certain cells as they are affected by outside frequencies.
I guess its hard for me to grasp evolution because it is more on the surface level of materialism and it only observes effects of change and them makes assumptions as to how they came about.
We can say chemicals cause this or that .... But i believe to understand evolution we need to understand what causes the chemicals.
I guess what i am trying to say in all of this is if we live in a closed system and the information that we get that keeps harmony and order insteadf of chaos comes from the sun, then why not try and study and understand from this source of energy instead of making wild assumptions on the observed affects? I mean we know what the source is right?
Why complicate the beauty of simplicity into a bunch of unbelieveable theories?
The effects are just that, effects? The cause is where the answer is.
Like Einstein says, he wanted to know the mind of God, the rest is just details.
Just asking honestly from the point of view of a layman trying to figure the world out from his front porch.

could you rephrase your question. i don't understand what your asking exactly. and what wild assumptions what source what beauty of simplicity?

what controls chemisty? physics.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Well i personally doubt the validate of the quote and link. Over all it does not matter. Even if it found a new use (which it does poorly and unnecessarily) it still had a different original use. If it were designed by an intelligent creator like you said why do so many people have to have theirs removed? Just using the human body alone there is tons of evidence for evolution, that or the intelligent designer failed biology and mechanics and engineering. If we are designed it was poorly done. ima try to find that thread unless you have link?

Here it is....

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/77920-male-nipples.html

 

[Iti oj]

Here it is....

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/77920-male-nipples.html

Thanks so scientific consesious os fetus development like i said.