Evolution is a Big Lie

[Walkntune]

could you rephrase your question. i don't understand what your asking exactly. and what wild assumptions what source what beauty of simplicity?

what controls chemisty? physics.

Sorry i guess I asked a lot of questions.
I will just ask this one first. We are part of the universe and we observe the universe so this is the same as saying the universe is self observant right?
This information must have evolved with purpose and I assume from what I am understanding of how are system is closed that this information came from the sun?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Thanks so scientific consesious os fetus development like i said.

I agree....

 

[Iti oj]

Sorry i guess I asked a lot of questions.
I will just ask this one first. We are part of the universe and we observe the universe so this is the same as saying the universe is self observant right?
This information must have evolved with purpose and I assume from what I am understanding of how are system is closed that this information came from the sun?

.
I'll agree that our existence means the universe observes itself. (that a personal believe) What does that have to do with evolution. Why must it have evolved with/for a purpose, there is nothing at all to suggest this nor has anyone here explaining evolution suggest it did. there is no need or reason to think there is purpose. The sun just provided energy, it also helps with mutation. Energy feeds growth energy allows a system to keep moving. but this is mostly of topic. What keeps the system from degrading? Natural selection. You cannot seperate anything evolution works as a whole. it's not mutations or selection its both and many more things as well.

 

[Walkntune]

I don't separate humans from the universe. We and our behaviour is just as much a part as the furthest speck of dirt. If we can be irrational, then the universe is irrational. If we can break laws, then so can the universe.If we can create material things, then the universe is self creating.
All laws we subject the universe to seems to be limited to the mind of man .It seems we observe the universe from the point of view to control and understand and we separate ourselves from that which we are observing instead of ourselves being all included.

 

[Walkntune]

Why must it have evolved with/for a purpose, there is nothing at all to suggest this nor has anyone here explaining evolution suggest it did. there is no need or reason to think there is purpose.

Then why question nipples on man?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Then why question nipples on man?

Ask Shermana.

 

[Iti oj]

I don't separate humans from the universe. We and our behaviour is just as much a part as the furthest speck of dirt. If we can be irrational, then the universe is irrational. If we can break laws, then so can the universe.If we can create material things, then the universe is self creating.
All laws we subject the universe to seems to be limited to the mind of man .It seems we observe the universe from the point of view to control and understand and we separate ourselves from that which we are observing instead of ourselves being all included.

DERAIL. ohhh but to reply the universe does creat it creates stars and planets and dust coulds and black holes it creates minerals and atoms and everything else we see. physics man physics. but this ism a derail. evolution does not go into what created the spark of life. only what happened after. other theories take place to explain how selfreplication came about. Your derailing the thread what does your question have todo with evolution? Also i think, quantom physics adds human observation into the mix we can effect wich particles are observable just by looking for one or the other.


Now do you have any questions about evolution this threads topic?

 

[Iti oj]

Then why question nipples on man?

zomg you missed the point of my question, i was asking if we were designed inteligently then why have nipples? not why do we have nipples i already awnser that question. ohh and reason and purpose are two different things.

 

[Walkntune]

DERAIL. ohhh but to reply the universe does creat it creates stars and planets and dust coulds and black holes it creates minerals and atoms and everything else we see. physics man physics. but this ism a derail. evolution does not go into what created the spark of life. only what happened after. other theories take place to explain how selfreplication came about. Your derailing the thread what does your question have todo with evolution? Also i think, quantom physics adds human observation into the mix we can effect wich particles are observable just by looking for one or the other.


Now do you have any questions about evolution this threads topic?

Not sure how I derailed the thread?I was trying to understand how are intelligence evolved and if it was without purpose than why does it give purpose?
The integrity behind the theory is very questionable as I can't seem to ask honest basic questions without a stance of offense.I am asking sincerely as these are questions that are most important and mean most to existance.
We can create so doesn't that mean the information to create came from somewhere?
I mean I understand the basics of that things change but its understanding the cause of change that seems more important.If its from new information then i want to know where the information comes from.

 

[Iti oj]

Not sure how I derailed the thread?I was trying to understand how are intelligence evolved and if it was without purpose than why does it give purpose?
We can create so doesn't that mean the information to create came from somewhere?
I am just asking honest basic questions of existance that need to be addressed to buy into evolution.
I mean I understand the basics of that things change but its understanding the cause that seems more important.

Thats a different topic several differant topics.
why does our ability to creat mean it came from anywhere? There is no basis for this rational. We can creat due to the sum of our parts. it comes from the brains we evoloved.

 

[Iti oj]

the changes come from enviromental pressures, random mutation, and natural selection/

 

[Walkntune]

the changes come from enviromental pressures, random mutation, and natural selection/

OK I am with you on this.I see these changes as information being affected. I know natural selection can select from information but the information must be there to select from.I understand how those processes are effecting information.I want to understand the process of new information being provided.Does mutation add new information or just effect pre existing information? I am honestly trying to understand this from a simplistic point of view.
Something is not clicking here for me and I can't pin point it.
For me it still makes more sense that all information is there from the beginning and as time goes on and the universe expands information is lost and effected by change.
I just can't buy into new information being added but easy to see information being lost.

 

[outhouse]

I don't separate humans from the universe.

why?

it seems to me your creating a problem where there is none

 

[outhouse]

I know natural selection can select from information but the information must be there to select from

nope

small changes have adcanced us foward slowly. very slowly. it took billions of years to get this far.

We are not done either, evolution doesnt stop, it never has. It does however go through rapid and slow progressions. even in its fastest pace is still slow, very slow changes. The faster a species can reproduce and the larger the population is the fatser things can evolve.


life has been evolving foward for 3.5B years.

 

[outhouse]

We all fit in the tree of life. everything that has life resides within it. All going back to common ancestor.


Out of the millions of fossils found, not one has ever been found out of place. Creationist search for such fossils in vain and they cannnot ever turn one up that doesnt fit and they have been trying for so long they know its hopeless.

 

[Iti oj]

OK I am with you on this.I see these changes as information being affected. I know natural selection can select from information but the information must be there to select from.I understand how those processes are effecting information.I want to understand the process of new information being provided.Does mutation add new information or just effect pre existing information? I am honestly trying to understand this from a simplistic point of view.
Something is not clicking here for me and I can't pin point it.
For me it still makes more sense that all information is there from the beginning and as time goes on and the universe expands information is lost and effected by change.
I just can't buy into new information being added but easy to see information being lost.

The law of thermodynamics is physics not biology so stop inserting it. Did you read the link i gave you? mutatons can change add or remove information. Do not look at it as add or removed but in chnages maybe a gene splits into 2 maybe 2 genes merge together..these of course get altered in other ways too

 

[camanintx]

And if you have the time, instead of firing off something inflammatory without actual substance, try actually picking apart that article I posted.

You mean like I did here?

 

[camanintx]

I am ignorant on the subject of evolution but it seems that common sense would say that everything starts out with all of the information in tact and as time progresses things loose information and change over time eventually loosing enough to even become extinct.
I wouldn't think that mutations would ever add information but would actually contribute to the loss of information.
Like I said I am over my head but this just seems like common sense.
I guess this creates a problem of how did the information get in tact but this would be a problem many want to avoid.

I don't think you quite understand what "information" means in this context. Mutations are quite adept at creating new information.

Information Theory and Creationism: Classical Information Theory (Shannon)

Molecular Information Theory and the Theory of Molecular Machines

 

[camanintx]

Because there's tons of sweet grant money (and ideological forces) involved with trying to push the idea that order can arise from disorder and that somehow mutations cause information and overall gain rather than loss as well as sustainability.

Someone might want to tell biologists where all of this money is because very few seem to be getting rich off this scam.

 

[Father Heathen]

As for nipples, they are proof AGAINST evolution, aren't they. We all start as a female chassis. As for their function, that remains a mystery, but why weren't they weeded out years ago like supposedly how tails were? If we can find out years later that the Appendix has a function when once was thought not to, perhaps Nipples will as well.

You shot yourself in the foot with this one. You're suggesting that imperfect design is evidence of a perfect creator? For one, nipples would have no reason to disappear, it isn't a trait that's been detrimental to survival. Also, the fact that we have useless physiological features doesn't suggest intentional design by an intelligent being.