outhouse
Atheistically
That's not honest, is it?
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Evolution is illogical and non sense
- Thread starter ttechsan
- Start date
That's not honest, is it?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
In science, we're only debating the specifics of the ToE-- not the basic fact that it has been and still is happening.
In science, we really don't much use the term "proof", so your point is moot.
Because they have been able to survive without being us.
"Advanced" is a relative term. Go wrestle a crocodile in deep water and we'll see who then is "advanced".
Why would you think all animals supposedly have to be like us?
"Exception" in what?
No, what doesn't make sense is when someone who really doesn't know much about the ToE jumps to conclusions and makes absurd judgments. If you really don't much understand something, and you surely don't on this subject, common sense should tell you that it makes more sense to actually ask real question and do some studying on the subject.
It's rather clear that your religion has tainted your opinions, and if I were you, I'd look for at least a different denomination to maybe join because you're being fed garbage. And I should know as I grew up in one of those fundamentalist churches that taught the same kind of garbage.
dust1n
Zindīq
3 doesn't follow 1 & 2.
dust1n
Zindīq
Sure. It happens all the time. But I usually acknowledge that I'm doing it when I'm doing it. "Mmkay" just seemed purposefully dismissive, so sorry if I misread that.
David M
Well-Known Member
We did evolve from apes. just not any extant apes. Every species in our ancestral lineage back to when the apes split from the old world monkeys was an Ape. In the same way you can take a point further back and it is primates all the way from us back to the start of the order.
David M
Well-Known Member
You do realise that there are still people who claim the sun revolves around the earth?
Unification
Well-Known Member
I understand what you mean, buddy. It's a two-edged sword though.
Things religions don't understand:
Humans themselves are the animal that needs defeated.
The religious writings are all myths, yet the objective conscious/spiritual truth is behind them.
God is no respector of persons.
Truth and fact, no difference and it doesn't matter, both are "that which is and in accord with reality."
What's true is we all live in the same balanced universe, we are all alive, we all are born and all die, we all have a brain, body, blood, heart, etc. We are all mostly stupid and devour each other.
Anything that we all don't have in common is the opposite of objectivity: I'd say the largest culprit that creates divide is religion, the very thing that is supposed to be creating peace and unity for all.
We really don't have that much freewill. A little bit.
Most religions would agree that "God" has no past or future... God is present only. If one would want to know and experience God, they would be living in the now/present themselves and the future would be irrelevant.
Creation is in the past and really doesn't matter. People worry and argue over silly things. Creation happens every microsecond and still is happening in the present. Focus on the creation happening now and in the present.
Using intelligent design, there would be really no way but to say that evolution is intelligent design, and the body evolved but the "being" was created. Man and woman, conscious and subconscious.. Objective and subjdctive dual mind. Removal of a ribosome from DNA.
RNA is complementary to DNA, helping to carry out the tasks that DNA lists for it to do.
Emotions are supposed to be under control and in subjection to the spirit(conscious)
A spiritual being separates from mind and thought and enters within themsves, the only place God (pure consciousness) can be experienced. A majority of religious beings looks for an external god or gods that looks like a man with a white beard floating around the sky.
There is nothing wrong with science or most religious writings, the hidden spiritual truth are in the writings, and the unbiased open minded science with no agenda is a friend, there is everything wrong with mindkind's interpretation of them and having an ego, with self centered intent and agenda that creates divide.
Thanks for the reply pal. Best wishes.
Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
It's clear that my religion has tainted my opinions? And you say I jump to conclusions...
I'm just open minded and don't blindly accept what people try to spoon feed me. There's many theories that we have in science and if anyone knows anything about science is that often theories are debunked and replaced with newer theories that make more sense. That's happened for years.
I find it kind of hard to believe that we evolve from apes yet apes are still not advanced. Is there really anything that explains why we've become worlds above the animals when it comes to intelligence? None of the other animals have displayed technology or psychic powers or anything like that despite other creatures being older than us.
Strange as it may sound I find Sitchen's books to explain the genesis of humans that make much more sense than evolution. But it's not a science approved book so I guess therefore it makes no sense right? In the 12th planet it explained that humans were actually ape like, although a little more intelligent but there were other entities or aliens that came to Earth looking for a means to help their own planet and needed labor, and basically they jumped the gun on evolution and shared their DNA with us, altering our appearance and intelligence. These aliens were worshipped as Gods and we even sort of looked like them, which is why in the bible it's said that we are "made in God's image", explains how humans, who were previously animal like and lived in caves or tribes, all of a sudden had a concept of civilization, money, ect since these entities taught them this and there are religious books of the deities educating the humans. But so many think Sitchen is kooky even though nobody explains why. Just that official scientists don't buy it so some people, like sheep, buy into it and even though Sitchen explains all of the reasons why we became what we are, certain customs that we participate in, ect.
I don't think humans evolved from fish or apes or anything like that as cells don't make radical changes like that. Besides the living organisms that shared the pre-humans' environment should have also evolved along with us. There should be multiple races on this planet that are on par with us in terms of enlightenment, civilization, technology ect.
Also Unification, religions doesn''t divide people. Look at how many people have fought even when Christians of the same belief have fought each other. Catholics against catholics, muslims against muslims ect. Take all the religions out and you will still see division, because all people are different.
McBell
Unbound
I will await you to demonstrate your premises.
NewGuyOnTheBlock
Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
In more boisterous forums, I would really unleash and resort to insults; but alas, the rules of these forums will not permit it ...
The idea that you have that "evolutionists" see a thermostat as having free will is worthy of contempt and ridicule.
A thermostat has no brain. It has no nerves. It has no consciousness. It has no awareness of its environment. Older thermostats typically rely on a very simple scientific principles: As metal increases in temperature, it expands. As it cools, it compresses. Wires placed on a piece of metal, often by means of some kind of "wishbone" device separates the connections. As we adjust the thermostat, the gaps between the electric connections are widened or narrowed. As the metal expands or contracts, it pushes the "wishbone" one way or the other and closes a circuit. In more modern thermostats, the closing and opening of the connections are made by very simple computers with a code so primitive that an average 3rd grader could write it.
It can not think, reason, decide for itself anything. It has no power to reason, no ability to feel; it is dead. Dead things can have no free will.
The more you try to show how stupid "evolutionists" are, the more you demonstrate how little you understand.
This statement makes no sense whatsoever. It is empty babbling.
If "God" made me blind, and your theology is true, then he is ultimately responsible for my punishment. You contradict yourself: You say that God sent me guides to lead me; now you say that god made me blind. It sounds to me like you make up things as you go along; whatever sounds good at the moment.
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Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
"Even atheist mathematician Fred Hoyle admitted it took intelligence and evolution was impossible. He described it thusly. The odds for evolution are the same as a tornado going through a junkyard and forming a 747 ready for take off on a runway! How did he get around the obvious intelligence needed that he acknowledged. He said it had to have come from outer space! That is sure pure science huh!" - ttechsan
I'll submit to you some overwhelming empirical and mathematical evidence for evolution.
There is overwhelming proof of evolution. There are millions of fossils to show transitions and millions of animals to compare DNA. Chromosome 2 proves that humans share a common ancestor with Great Apes who have 24 pairs of chromosomes, while we have 23 pairs. Where did our 24th pair go? Evolutionary scientists have found evidence that human chromosome 2 is the fusion of two ancestral chromosomes. Chromosomes have a telomere on each end and a centromere in the middle. So if a chromosome had been fused, it would have three telomeres (one on each end and one in the middle) and two centromeres. Guess what...scientists found it. Chromosome 2 has three telomeres and two centromeres (unlike any other chromosome). Somewhere along the line, we broke off and took our own evolutionary route, although we humans still belong in the family of Great Apes. Endogenous Retroviruses (ERVs) also prove Evolution. ERVs are the relics of ancient viral infections preserved in our DNA. The odd thing is many ERVs are located in exactly the same position on our genome and the chimpanzee genome! There are two explanations for the perfectly matched ERV locations. Either it is an unbelievable coincidence that viruses just by chance were inserted in exactly the same location in our genomes, or humans and chimps share a common ancestor. The chances that a virus was inserted at the exact same location is 1 in 3,000,000,000. Humans and chimps share 16 pairs of viruses inserted at perfectly matched location. It was our common ancestor that was infected, and we both inherited the ERVs. ERVs provide the closest thing to a mathematical proof for evolution.
I'll submit to you some overwhelming empirical and mathematical evidence for evolution.
There is overwhelming proof of evolution. There are millions of fossils to show transitions and millions of animals to compare DNA. Chromosome 2 proves that humans share a common ancestor with Great Apes who have 24 pairs of chromosomes, while we have 23 pairs. Where did our 24th pair go? Evolutionary scientists have found evidence that human chromosome 2 is the fusion of two ancestral chromosomes. Chromosomes have a telomere on each end and a centromere in the middle. So if a chromosome had been fused, it would have three telomeres (one on each end and one in the middle) and two centromeres. Guess what...scientists found it. Chromosome 2 has three telomeres and two centromeres (unlike any other chromosome). Somewhere along the line, we broke off and took our own evolutionary route, although we humans still belong in the family of Great Apes. Endogenous Retroviruses (ERVs) also prove Evolution. ERVs are the relics of ancient viral infections preserved in our DNA. The odd thing is many ERVs are located in exactly the same position on our genome and the chimpanzee genome! There are two explanations for the perfectly matched ERV locations. Either it is an unbelievable coincidence that viruses just by chance were inserted in exactly the same location in our genomes, or humans and chimps share a common ancestor. The chances that a virus was inserted at the exact same location is 1 in 3,000,000,000. Humans and chimps share 16 pairs of viruses inserted at perfectly matched location. It was our common ancestor that was infected, and we both inherited the ERVs. ERVs provide the closest thing to a mathematical proof for evolution.
shawn001
Well-Known Member
" Is there really anything that explains why we've become worlds above the animals when it comes to intelligence?"
Yes evolution explains it quite well.
I read all of Sitchen's books. But
"But so many think Sitchen is kooky even though nobody explains why."
"
What's This All About?
Welcome to the website devoted to addressing the claims of the ancient astronaut hypothesis popularized in the writings of Zecharia Sitchin. Who's behind this site? My name is Mike Heiser. Who am I? The short answer is that I'm a scholar of biblical and ancient Near Eastern languages, cultures, and religions. Why do I bother with this stuff? Because I don't like ancient texts manipulated to promote false claims. If I were a lawyer I'd feel professionally obligated to tell you if someone was giving you bad legal advice. If I was a medical doctor, I'd owe you the truth if I knew the medicine you were taking was bogus or could kill you. If I was an accountant, I'd let you know if a neighbor's tax advice could put you in jail. I'm none of those things, but take the analogy to heart. I'm trying to provide the same service in my areas of expertise. I can tell you--and show you--that what Zecharia Sitchin has written about Nibiru, the Anunnaki, the book of Genesis, the Nephilim, and a host of other things has absolutely no basis in the real data of the ancient world. I don't doubt that Zecharia Sitchin is a nice guy; he's just wrong. Nothing personal.
Home Page
Big difference between the billions of facts of evolution and Sitchen's hypothesis.
You might also want to look into this in regards to our evolution. Smithsonian Human Origins program.
Evidence of Evolution
Scientists have discovered a wealth of evidence concerning human evolution, and this evidence comes in many forms. Thousands of human fossils enable researchers and students to study the changes that occurred in brain and body size, locomotion, diet, and other aspects regarding the way of life of early human species over the past 6 million years. Millions of stone tools, figurines and paintings, footprints, and other traces of human behavior in the prehistoric record tell about where and how early humans lived and when certain technological innovations were invented. Study of human genetics show how closely related we are to other primates – in fact, how connected we are with all other organisms – and can indicate the prehistoric migrations of our species, Homo sapiens, all over the world. Advances in the dating of fossils and artifacts help determine the age of those remains, which contributes to the big picture of when different milestones in becoming human evolved.
Exciting scientific discoveries continually add to the broader and deeper public knowledge of human evolution. Find out about the latest evidence in our What’s Hot in Human Origins section.
Behavior
Explore the evidence of early human behavior—from ancient footprints to stone tools and the earliest symbols and art – along with similarities and differences in the behavior of other primate species.
3D Collection
Explore our 3D collection of fossils and artifacts.
Human Fossils
From skeletons to teeth, early human fossils have been found of more than 6,000 individuals. Look into our digital 3-D collection and learn about fossil human species.
Genetics
Our genes offer evidence of how closely we are related to one another – and of our species’ connection with all other organisms.
Dating
The layers that contain fossils and archeological clues can be dated by more than a dozen techniques that use the basic principles of physics, chemistry, and Earth sciences. Some techniques can even estimate the age of the ancient teeth and bones directly. Advances in dating have made human evolution very exciting!
Human Evolution by The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program
For example, a joint statement of IAP by 68 national and international science academies lists as established scientific fact that Earth is approximately 4.6 billion years old and has undergone continual change; that life, according to the evidence of earliest fossils, appeared on Earth at least 3.8 billion years ago and has subsequently taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve; and that the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicates their common primordial origin
The scientific theory of evolution goes back to single cells, in fact to some of the first fossils of Cynobacteria that evolved photosynthesis and why the earth has an oxygen atmosphere today.
Scientific American The Origin of Oxygen in Earth's Atmosphere
The breathable air we enjoy today originated from tiny organisms, although the details remain lost in geologic time
"It's hard to keep oxygen molecules around, despite the fact that it's the third-most abundant element in the universe, forged in the superhot, superdense core of stars. That's because oxygen wants to react; it can form compounds with nearly every other element on the periodic table. So how did Earth end up with an atmosphere made up of roughly 21 percent of the stuff?
The answer is tiny organisms known as cyanobacteria, or blue-green algae. These microbes conductphotosynthesis: using sunshine, water and carbon dioxide to produce carbohydrates and, yes, oxygen. In fact, all the plants on Earth incorporate symbiotic cyanobacteria (known as chloroplasts) to do their photosynthesis for them down to this day.
For some untold eons prior to the evolution of these cyanobacteria, during the Archean eon, more primitive microbes lived the real old-fashioned way: anaerobically. These ancient organisms—and their "extremophile" descendants today—thrived in the absence of oxygen, relying on sulfate for their energy needs.
But roughly 2.45 billion years ago, the isotopic ratio of sulfur transformed, indicating that for the first time oxygen was becoming a significant component of Earth's atmosphere, according to a 2000 paper in Science. At roughly the same time (and for eons thereafter), oxidized iron began to appear in ancient soils and bands of iron were deposited on the seafloor, a product of reactions with oxygen in the seawater.
"What it looks like is that oxygen was first produced somewhere around 2.7 billion to 2.8 billon years ago. It took up residence in atmosphere around 2.45 billion years ago," says geochemist Dick Holland, a visiting scholar at the University of Pennsylvania. "It looks as if there's a significant time interval between the appearance of oxygen-producing organisms and the actual oxygenation of the atmosphere."
So a date and a culprit can be fixed for what scientists refer to as the Great Oxidation Event, but mysteries remain. What occurred 2.45 billion years ago that enabled cyanobacteria to take over? What were oxygen levels at that time? Why did it take another one billion years—dubbed the "boring billion" by scientists—for oxygen levels to rise high enoughto enable the evolution of animals?
The Origin of Oxygen in Earth's Atmosphere - Scientific American
"The cyanobacteria have an extensive fossil record. The oldest known fossils, in fact, are cyanobacteria from Archaean rocks of western Australia, dated 3.5 billion years old. This may be somewhat surprising, since the oldest rocks are only a little older: 3.8 billion years old!"
Fossil Record of the Cyanobacteria
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
I think there are 22 ERVs shared, but I could remember wrong. We also have over 100 transposons shared with chimps which are just as strong evidence as the ERVs.
Can you be more specific?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Except you reference God, which rather clearly indicates that your religious motivation is rather clearly involved one way or the other. So, my "jump to conclusions" was not a "jump" but a reality.
Again, you do not understand how "theory" is used in science, and since it's been mentioned to you before, and since you keep making the same mistake, it's obvious you have no intention whatsoever to be either "open-minded" or to actually try to learn.
This has already been explained, and yet you keep coming back with the same nonsense. "Open-minded"? Hardly.
You gotta be kidding?! This guy has a reputation for pseudo-science.
Again, as what already has been pointed out to you, geneticists should be mostly on your side if you were correct on this, but they ain't. Also, it doesn't take a ph.d. in genetics to understand that many small changes over a long period of time adds up.
Actually there used to be more "races" than what we now find, but humans have developed this greater ability to kill one another, thus most previous human groups are now extinct.
You are probably the only person on the planet that believes this. Religions sometimes unite peoples, but sometimes they divide.
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Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
Yet another thing that supports evolution is the radiation of species. It's basically the spread of species from points of location over time. Of the two competing models, orchard (eden, creationism) vs evolution, only one fits how we see the species spread and change over time while their spreading, and how it also follows the geological changes and formations, and that is evolution. The orchard hypothesis (or model) doesn't fit at all. The species did not appear everywhere in the world at once, but they are spreading and changing (evolving) while spreading, or as it's named "radiate" from their locations. I believe this was one of the first discoveries by geologists and paleontologists being a problem when fitting it with the orchard model. Creationism just couldn't explain this. And, No, the flood doesn't explain it either since this radial spread and change must've happened before the flood.
McBell
Unbound
Start with number three.
Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
Yup I'm the only one out of 7 billion people that thinks that way. What are you talking about? Religion is religion. It doesn't do anything by itself. People divide people and there have been divided people long before religion.
Let me guess, did you hear about Sitchen from some science magazine that says he's crazy even though they themselves offer no reason as to why he's crazy. He's made more sense than the others, and really aliens landing on this planet isn't so strange so I don't know why people say it's implausible. But since he's labeled crazy people won't listen. Don't just believe it when someone labels a person "crazy" as sometimes crazy people tend to be right. Even the greatest scientists and philosophers were once called crazy.
Apparently theory means proven fact, despite it being called a theory. Someone should look up the word first.
All you keep saying is "Duh the answer is obvious" but have yet to offer any reasonable explanation. It is what is. Just because. That's what you're mostly saying.
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
A theory can also be a fact. There is no point in time when a scientific theory stops being a scientific theory unless it gets thrown out because of conflicting evidence. But no matter how sure or factual a theory is...its still a theory. And that is to no discredit of the theory.
I can link you to so much evidence it would literally take you years to go through. If that is actually what you want then we can do this. Or I can link you to a few manageable sources. Which would you like?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I never stated nor implied religion somehow does it by itself, but religion does tend to cause differences between people, and sometimes these differences are acted on in harmful ways. Nor did I say or imply that it's only religion that causes differences either. Your response to what I posted is quite bizarre and disingenuous, and I would suggest that most people reading what I had written actually knew what I was saying and implying in this regard.
Actually not, but if that fits into your fantasy, go for it. There's a difference between a scientific approach versus a pseudo-science approach, but it surprises me not that you can't tell the difference.
I've posted before that we generally do not use the term "proven", and yet you keep repeating this same word over and over again. Since you won't spend the time to actually look up "theory" as defined in the world of science, let me post a very simple definition: "A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not 'guesses' but reliable accounts of the real world." -- Wikipedia
Which item are you referring to? It's very easy for any of us here to post one scientific link after another as long as we know what area you're talking about.