Evolution is illogical and non sense

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Fallacy #1: "Atheism = evolution." Untrue. Most of the world's major Christian denominations have accepted the scientific fact of evolution. Most Christians are "evolutionists" and most "evolutionists" are Christians.

Fallacy #2: "Higher Order". There is no assertion by credible evolutionary biologists that suggests we "must" evolve to a "higher order". Moreover, there is no clear definition of "higher order".

Fallacy #3: "Gazelles". A brain at a higher temperature does not necessarily mean that the "brain would boil"; it only means that the brain would attain a higher temperature. But the fact remains that (assuming these gazelle "facts" are actually true), genetic mutations over time gave the gazelle a survival advantage; thus it survived.

Fallacy #4: "Finches". The "finch" is still a "finch" and that disproves evolution. How quaint. And untrue.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Explain this to me evolutionist. In science they can explain in specific detail many functions found in nature. Photosynthesis etc. All about systems, Muscular, Nerve and it goes on. Yet evolution never can explain evolution is that type detail. You can not give one proven example of evolution of one species to another higher order species. You can't tell us what it started at and what it became. You can't explain the no. of steps it took and what each step entailed to get there. That is not like the science I am referring to above. So evolution is really non science non sense.

Plus explain this. You say An explosion of energy started all the extreme order and precision we see in creation. Yet in no other example can you give where an explosion of energy ever produces order, precision etc. When I see storms, explosions etc. Much less energy than the Big Bang supposedly had and the aftermath is anything but order, precision, intracate design etc. My logic and common sense just doesn't buy it.

Evolution says the Design we see in creation only appears designed. Well that might be correct if talking about a cloud. But we are talking about FUNCTIONAL DESIGN etc. That is a big big difference. It is what makes life possible since that Function makes life possible.

Evolution has no real thinking brain. Yet you act as if it did. It reminds me of the illustration I like to give.
Mother Nature decides to form the faces on Mt Rushmore. So it gets the forces and processes of nature to join together and uses rain, wind, erosion and time to form those faces. It shows design (we know it was) yet it isn't life. But see life not only shows Design, it is functional and makes real life possible.

In all of my life, I have yet to see where I find functional Design, Engineering, Programming etc not have intelligent brains behind it. Yet evolution tries to sell me that what we have occured w/o an actual intelligent brain behind it. Really? Like Mother Nature and the faces on Mt Rushmore?

Even atheist mathematician Fred Hoyle admitted it took intelligence and evolution was impossible. He described it thusly. The odds for evolution are the same as a tornado going through a junkyard and forming a 747 ready for take off on a runway! How did he get around the obvious intelligence needed that he acknowledged. He said it had to have come from outer space! That is sure pure science huh!

Sir Isaac Newton had an atheist friend that he couldn't convince him of God. So he went to a skilled carpenter friend. He asked him to make for him a copy to a scale of our solar system. After it was finished Sir Isaac Newton went and picked it up after paying for it. The work was exquisite. He placed it on a prominate place in his house. Not too long afterwards his atheist friend came by. He couldn't help but notice the great artistic replica of our solar system. He asked Sir Isaac Newton who made it. Newton replied No one it just appeared out of no where. The friend kept asking and Newton kept replying the same. Finally the friend got really mad. Then Sir Isaac Newton explained what he had done and the purpose for it. He told him, This is basically what you keep telling me about our solar system etc. I wanted to show you how absurd that really is. Then the friend got the point. I hope you do too.

I want examples where precise intricate Design Engineering Programming has ever occurred w/o actual intelligence behind it? Gee, if I walk upon a beach and see a cell phone, computer etc I know it took intelligence to Design, Engineer and Program it? Why can't you admit the obvious?

Dawkins the Blind watchmaker has always amused me. Why? Regardless of whether a watchmaker was blind or not. He couldn't make Design, Engineer or Program the watch w/o actual intelligent thinking brain could he?

There are two books you should read. First one is "A Closer Look at the Evidence" by Richard and Tina Kleiss and "Inspired Evidence" by Bruce Malone. They are two books that are daily readings of one page each day. They go over many areas of science etc and show how when evolution has to get specific it falls flat on its face. Ironically, when you read evolutionist own words they actually betray the truth of the fraud and horrible science it truly is.

http://www.searchforthetruth.net/

BTW isn't it interesting that man's "evolved" brain still can't match what evolution says a non thinking intelligence Designed, Engineered and Programmed. Man study's nature to learn how to better things for man and still can't match it. Yet evolution did it so much better before mankind had "evolved" yet! How silly do you think I am! Worse is what man has tried to match, Kidney, heart machines etc. Mankind can't come close to matching. Yet evolution did it better than our top of the line "evolved" brain can do! Please explain how that is possible. Mother Nature example again!

So I want logical common sense replies to disprove my logical, comon sense "evolved" brain. Stick to the subject and don't use your usual tactics of avoidance and changing the subject to avoid answering what you can't. Much less personal attacks showing you can't answer so you attack saying I don't understand evolution. See the problem is I actually do. That is why, like Fred Hoyle, I realize it is impossible and took a supreme Intelligence. Difference I acknowledge God, Jesus the actual creator God. Colossians first Chapter and part of chapter 2 and Romans chapter 1.

That is the site you can go to the purchase those books.

BTW I taught a lesson on "How to filter evolutionary teaching using their own words" last Sunday. I had it recorded. I hope to post it on You Tube fairly soon. I am not a techno person. So my friend will have to help me. He has been real sick with strep throat. So not sure when we will be able to post it.

God Bless You All.

Instead of beating the dead horse, why don't you provide some knowledge on how creation works. How things are decided in the universe.

 

[David M]

You can not give one proven example of evolution of one species to another higher order species.

Speciation in complex life is an observed fact, deal with it.

Observed Instances of Speciation

Plus explain this. You say An explosion of energy started all the extreme order and precision we see in creation.

No we don't, because that is not what happened.

Evolution says the Design we see in creation only appears designed. Well that might be correct if talking about a cloud. But we are talking about FUNCTIONAL DESIGN etc. That is a big big difference. It is what makes life possible since that Function makes life possible.

No there is no difference, an appearance of design does not mean that there is design, and considering how many examples of crap design there are that bareley meet the level of "just good enough" your designer seems rather incompetent.

In all of my life, I have yet to see where I find functional Design, Engineering, Programming etc not have intelligent brains behind it. Yet evolution tries to sell me that what we have occured w/o an actual intelligent brain behind it. Really? Like Mother Nature and the faces on Mt Rushmore?

Your ignorance is not a problem for the Theory of Evolution.

DNA is an imperfect replicator and resources in an environmental niche are always limited. That makes evolution and diversity inevitable. Its up to you to provide valid evidence that it magically stops at some point.

 

[ttechsan]

As usual. You guys make statements w/o anything but your statements to disprove me. So prove it by disproving me with science and examples. I have called you out on this and put you and your so called science on the spot. You can't deliver. If you actually think in a debate your statements would count as proof you really don't know much do you?

I am going to quote from one of the books again.
Human anatomy
Our kidneys are such extremely complex yet reliably designed organs that we can survive with a single kidney working at a fraction of its capacity. Each of these two dark red bean shaped organs is about the size of an adult fist and performs many absolutely critical functions within our bodies. The kidney's primary function is to filter impurities and toxins from our blood.

Each kidney has three layers, called the cortex, the medulla, and the pelvis. Blood flows into the cortex and medulla through the renal artery. The renal artery then branches into smaller vessels which connect to a blood filtration unit within the kidney called a nephron. Two normal kidneys have about two million nephrons (60 miles in combined length), which purify all of the body's blood approximately every 50 minutes. Over 400 gallons of blood are pumped through the kidney's each day. After being purified, about 99% of the bloods fluid is recycled back into the body for further use.

Many Engineers over countless hours have worked to design artificial kidneys. Why would anyone accept that these comparatively huge and inefficient artificial kidney's have an intelligent designer, yet refuse to see God behind the infinitely more intricately designed kidney's within our bodies?

Logic, common sense of acknowledging what is seen in today's world acknowledges God (Designer). IT describes what science knows about kidney's in depth to a point this took it. Evolution can't get near this specific. Man the top of the line "evolved" real brain can't match still what a non thinking pseudo brain of evolution already designed way before man appeared. Listen, I have some ocean front property near the Mountain ski resort in the Sahara desert to sell. You buying? Why not? You buy the rest of this illogical non sense. To help you finance the purchase, I offer you $4.00 bills for a discount!

Here is another one from the plant world

Even in the plant world, there is no such thing as "simple life". The vodoo lily, for example, was designed to raise its temperature by 25 degrees while it releases a scent that attracts beetles to pollinate it. There are many complex chemical reactions that take place within the lily. Some are specifically designed to raise the lilly's temperature. The lily's temperature then increases the rate of evaporation of other chemicals designed to attract pollinating insects.

The chemicals which evaporate from the lily happen to be the same ones found in rotting meat. The smell of rotting meat is what attracks the pollinating beetles to the flowers. As the attracked beetles crawl around inside the flower looking for food, they get covered with pollen and spread the pollen to the next lily. How did the lily "learn" to make this exact sent? It could only have happened by design. possibly after the Fall of mankind, when radical changes occurred throughout the plant and animal kingdoms.

Specific chemical reactions with a specific purpose require careful design and planning. It doesn't make logical sense to assume the vodoo lily's complex chemical reactions evolved by chance.

Again, That is pretty specific science and sure doesn't sound bogus. Evolution as I've said often, when you get specific and make evolution get away from their general just so stories and go to good science and common sense and actual logic. Evolution falls flat on its face.

I realize it is hard to admit one has been the victim of fraud due to atheistic agenda. That is why they fight so hard to make it science vs relgion. It is good vs bad science vs atheistic agenda and logic and common sense.

So come back to me when you actually have science PROOF w/COMMON SENSE & LOGIC on your side.

I've asked many evolutionist. Use your "highly evolved" brain and tell me how and explain each and the number of steps you would use to evolve one to anther. Surely you have to admit evolution actually has no real thinking brain, like Mother Nature doesn't. Yet it is treated as if it does. W/O actual demonstration as real science does.

When I look at all over the world. The different types of plants, animals, fresh, salt water, land and air. Plus all the differences in reproduction and so much more. I just don't see the Family resemblance. Any successful Engineer will use the same plan. But each is so different.

I do admire your blind faith. I need more substance of things to stand on myself. I have more.

Until you actually come back with substative science, common sense, logic etc then I will realize as usual. You have nothing but your blind faith and commitment to atheism. You are not committed to honest open logic precise descriptive science that relies on more than just so stories,fraud and all of that done w/o actual science demonstration as real science demands.

 

[ttechsan]

BTW you keep reading about the Fall, of mankind. That caused all imperfections. Not God's original Design etc.

 

[Etritonakin]

I agree that life required a designer at some point.

But.......

Evolution is a fact.

However, the overall definition of "evolution" has changed over time.

Not everything assumed or hypothesized about evolution is fact.

There are knowns and unknowns.

The fact that "evolution" happens does not mean it could not have been initiated by an intelligence -or that all changes since the emergence of life on earth happened without a creative intelligence (even we -a creative intelligence -have caused changes).

The steps by which life emerged and eventually reached its present state would be essentially the same regardless of whether or not life was the inevitable result of the Big Bang or caused afterward -or even whether within an a imagination or in reality.

If God designed the Big Bang to produce the building blocks of life, he could have encoded the emergence of life in it as well -or caused specific things to happen afterward.

God is not only credited with creating the earth, but the entire universe -perhaps things beyond, and it is written that he formed the heavens to be inhabited (Isaiah 45:18).

How can we presume to know what an eternal being has been up to forever?
It definitely wouldn't fit on one page of text.

As God told Job......

1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy

?

 

[Ouroboros]

As usual. You guys make statements w/o anything but your statements to disprove me. So prove it by disproving me with science and examples. I have called you out on this and put you and your so called science on the spot. You can't deliver. If you actually think in a debate your statements would count as proof you really don't know much do you?

I am going to quote from one of the books again.
Human anatomy
Our kidneys are such extremely complex yet reliably designed organs that we can survive with a single kidney working at a fraction of its capacity. Each of these two dark red bean shaped organs is about the size of an adult fist and performs many absolutely critical functions within our bodies. The kidney's primary function is to filter impurities and toxins from our blood.

Each kidney has three layers, called the cortex, the medulla, and the pelvis. Blood flows into the cortex and medulla through the renal artery. The renal artery then branches into smaller vessels which connect to a blood filtration unit within the kidney called a nephron. Two normal kidneys have about two million nephrons (60 miles in combined length), which purify all of the body's blood approximately every 50 minutes. Over 400 gallons of blood are pumped through the kidney's each day. After being purified, about 99% of the bloods fluid is recycled back into the body for further use.

Many Engineers over countless hours have worked to design artificial kidneys. Why would anyone accept that these comparatively huge and inefficient artificial kidney's have an intelligent designer, yet refuse to see God behind the infinitely more intricately designed kidney's within our bodies?

I think you're behind a bit in time...

A wearable artificial kidney is a wearable dialysis machine that a person with end-stage renal disease could use daily or even continuously. Until November 2008, no wearable kidney was widely available, but many research teams were in the process of developing such devices. Now the scientists have built an artificial device which can be fitted in the failed kidney. The FDA has approved the first human clinical trials in the United States for a wearable artificial kidney designed by Blood Purification Technologies Inc. out of Beverly Hills, California. It is a tube-like structure which allows the impure blood to be passed from it and the inserted fluids purify the blood which is not pure and the bi-products are allowed to pass through the ureter to be thrown out of the body.

Artificial kidney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Valjean]

Ttechsan, you give examples of complex organs and structures as evidence of divine magic, but there is nothing particularly miraculous about them. They developed, step by step, by ordinary and explainable means.
Yes, there are gaps in understanding in every discipline, and people have been attributing them to magic for hundreds of years only to have science discover a natural explanation later on.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Ttechsan, you give examples of complex organs and structures as evidence of divine magic, but there is nothing particularly miraculous about them. They developed, step by step, by ordinary and explainable means.
Yes, there are gaps in understanding in every discipline, and people have been attributing them to magic for hundreds of years only to have science discover a natural explanation later on.

Ttechsan; I noticed the denomination; not dissimilar from the non-denominational group I was trapped in. This is a devotion that believes in speaking in tongues through the Holy Spirit, miraculous healing, prophecy, knowing (though God) what one can't possibly know, etc.You can paint this person a picture, subject them to a college level course, and it still would bounce off into denial, cognitive dissonance and laa laa land.

 

[Willamena]

You can't tell us what it started at and what it became.

That's evolution.

For instance, I could suggest to you that one step breeded reggae, but it's never a certain. It's not necessary that the evolution be a certain. It's only necessary that people today recognize an evolution. All that's important to us is what's evident to us.

 

[Maponos]

I don't see why evolution is so taboo to some religious people unless you take everything that is in your mythos as absolute literal fact, in which case you may be disappointed.

 

[Ouroboros]

BTW you keep reading about the Fall, of mankind. That caused all imperfections. Not God's original Design etc.

Is the immune system part of the perfect original design? In other words, virus and bacteria was part of the perfect world? What about blood clothing (creationists favorite example)? Why would God create that for humans and animals that live in peace in a perfect garden with no violence or distress? I guess it wasn't so perfect... or blood clothing and immune system evolved as a response to the "evil" world. Your choice.

Or just take the kidney that you suggested as an example of God's creation. Why would Adam and Even need kidneys in a perfect world? An organ to remove impurities and waste products. I can't see how impurities, disease, illness, injuries, and so on belong in Eden.

 

[Valjean]

I don't see why evolution is so taboo to some religious people unless you take everything that is in your mythos as absolute literal fact, in which case you may be disappointed.

I think a lot of it is ego defense. If a religious doctrine or infallible scripture is important to your identity and world-view, then any alternative is psychologically threatening.
Flat-Earth and terracentrism have pretty much played out. Old Earth and change through natural mechanisms are the threats du jour now.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I think a lot of it is ego defense. If a religious doctrine or infallible scripture is important to your identity and world-view, then any alternative is psychologically threatening.

Indeed, people can get very attached to religious beliefs, and anything that challenges those beliefs is seen as personally threatening.

 

[Riverwolf]

You can not give one proven example of evolution of one species to another higher order species.

Of course not. That's not how natural selection works. There's no such thing as "higher order species".

It's just certain traits that get passed on more easily than others in a given changing environment. If you accept that artificial breeding programs exist, then you accept the existence of all the biological mechanics necessary for natural selection to exist.

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't see why evolution is so taboo to some religious people unless you take everything that is in your mythos as absolute literal fact, in which case you may be disappointed.

It isn't ''taboo'' for me, I just don't have the faith to believe the theories. I'm also not sure what you mean, either, because many religious people on the forums believe in evolution; they just believe in creationism alongside it.

 

[Riverwolf]

So prove it by disproving me with science and examples.

First of all, I don't think you know what "science" is.

Second of all...

You look different from your parents.

Artificial breeding programs exist.

Ligers and coywolves exist now.

 

[Bunyip]

Explain this to me evolutionist. In science they can explain in specific detail many functions found in nature. Photosynthesis etc. All about systems, Muscular, Nerve and it goes on. Yet evolution never can explain evolution is that type detail. You can not give one proven example of evolution of one species to another higher order species.

That was proven more than a century ago.

You can't tell us what it started at and what it became. You can't explain the no. of steps it took and what each step entailed to get there. That is not like the science I am referring to above. So evolution is really non science non sense.

Plus explain this. You say An explosion of energy started all the extreme order and precision we see in creation.

Wow! Just amazing. You have confused evolution for cosmology - and expect to be taken as anything other than a troll.

Yet in no other example can you give where an explosion of energy ever produces order, precision etc. When I see storms, explosions etc. Much less energy than the Big Bang supposedly had and the aftermath is anything but order, precision, intracate design etc. My logic and common sense just doesn't buy it.

Evolution says the Design we see in creation only appears designed. Well that might be correct if talking about a cloud. But we are talking about FUNCTIONAL DESIGN etc. That is a big big difference. It is what makes life possible since that Function makes life possible.

Evolution has no real thinking brain. Yet you act as if it did. It reminds me of the illustration I like to give.
Mother Nature decides to form the faces on Mt Rushmore. So it gets the forces and processes of nature to join together and uses rain, wind, erosion and time to form those faces. It shows design (we know it was) yet it isn't life. But see life not only shows Design, it is functional and makes real life possible.

In all of my life, I have yet to see where I find functional Design, Engineering, Programming etc not have intelligent brains behind it. Yet evolution tries to sell me that what we have occured w/o an actual intelligent brain behind it. Really? Like Mother Nature and the faces on Mt Rushmore?

Even atheist mathematician Fred Hoyle admitted it took intelligence and evolution was impossible. He described it thusly. The odds for evolution are the same as a tornado going through a junkyard and forming a 747 ready for take off on a runway! How did he get around the obvious intelligence needed that he acknowledged. He said it had to have come from outer space! That is sure pure science huh!

Sir Isaac Newton had an atheist friend that he couldn't convince him of God. So he went to a skilled carpenter friend. He asked him to make for him a copy to a scale of our solar system. After it was finished Sir Isaac Newton went and picked it up after paying for it. The work was exquisite. He placed it on a prominate place in his house. Not too long afterwards his atheist friend came by. He couldn't help but notice the great artistic replica of our solar system. He asked Sir Isaac Newton who made it. Newton replied No one it just appeared out of no where. The friend kept asking and Newton kept replying the same. Finally the friend got really mad. Then Sir Isaac Newton explained what he had done and the purpose for it. He told him, This is basically what you keep telling me about our solar system etc. I wanted to show you how absurd that really is. Then the friend got the point. I hope you do too.

I want examples where precise intricate Design Engineering Programming has ever occurred w/o actual intelligence behind it? Gee, if I walk upon a beach and see a cell phone, computer etc I know it took intelligence to Design, Engineer and Program it? Why can't you admit the obvious?

Dawkins the Blind watchmaker has always amused me. Why? Regardless of whether a watchmaker was blind or not. He couldn't make Design, Engineer or Program the watch w/o actual intelligent thinking brain could he?

There are two books you should read. First one is "A Closer Look at the Evidence" by Richard and Tina Kleiss and "Inspired Evidence" by Bruce Malone. They are two books that are daily readings of one page each day. They go over many areas of science etc and show how when evolution has to get specific it falls flat on its face. Ironically, when you read evolutionist own words they actually betray the truth of the fraud and horrible science it truly is.

http://www.searchforthetruth.net/

BTW isn't it interesting that man's "evolved" brain still can't match what evolution says a non thinking intelligence Designed, Engineered and Programmed. Man study's nature to learn how to better things for man and still can't match it. Yet evolution did it so much better before mankind had "evolved" yet! How silly do you think I am! Worse is what man has tried to match, Kidney, heart machines etc. Mankind can't come close to matching. Yet evolution did it better than our top of the line "evolved" brain can do! Please explain how that is possible. Mother Nature example again!

So I want logical common sense replies to disprove my logical, comon sense "evolved" brain. Stick to the subject and don't use your usual tactics of avoidance and changing the subject to avoid answering what you can't. Much less personal attacks showing you can't answer so you attack saying I don't understand evolution. See the problem is I actually do. That is why, like Fred Hoyle, I realize it is impossible and took a supreme Intelligence. Difference I acknowledge God, Jesus the actual creator God. Colossians first Chapter and part of chapter 2 and Romans chapter 1.

That is the site you can go to the purchase those books.

BTW I taught a lesson on "How to filter evolutionary teaching using their own words" last Sunday. I had it recorded. I hope to post it on You Tube fairly soon. I am not a techno person. So my friend will have to help me. He has been real sick with strep throat. So not sure when we will be able to post it.

God Bless You All.

 

[Etritonakin]

Whatever happened -however it happened -has resulted in increasingly complex species increasingly capable of understanding and manipulating their environment. Man is now able to direct "evolution" -even man's own evolution -and has even begun to have some control over cosmic events.

Call it whatever you like, but "higher order" is an accurate description.

Perhaps it is too close to saying "increasingly god-like" for the comfort of some.

 

[dust1n]

Whatever happened -however it happened -has resulted in increasingly complex species increasingly capable of understanding and manipulating their environment. Man is now able to direct "evolution" -even man's own evolution -and has even begun to have some control over cosmic events.

Call it whatever you like, but "higher order" is an accurate description.

Perhaps it is too close to saying "increasingly god-like" for the comfort of some.

Increasingly complex, sure. I think people stray away from higher order, because it suggests some sort of hierarchy amongst animals, when, in reality, there isn't. There isn't anything innately wonderful about being increasingly complex, or smart, or thoughtful, and evolutionarily speaking, it's really irrelevant to be increasingly complex if it doesn't serve reproduction.