Evolution is no more science than Creationism is.

[Prometheus]

Luke, we need to get you to talk to all the other Christians and Theists who think evolution is fact on this forum. They could convince you better than I could.

 

[Luke_17:2]

Theory: A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

That is also a definition, but it doesn't apply to the Law of Gravity because we know how gravity works; it doesn't require an explanation. As opposed to the origins of everything we see today: it requires an explanation. We have a couple religion that attempt to explain it; we might go so far as to call them religious theories.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Fortunately , we do not have to worry about Teaching Creationism or ID in schools in the UK. Our Government were sensible enough to ban it.
It is Poor Religion not Good Science.

 

[Luke_17:2]

The Law Of gravity:

This shows that it's not a theory: it's a law that can e explained.

 

[Luke_17:2]

It is Poor Religion not Good Science.

Back that up. How is evolution good science, and Creationism and/or I.D. bad religion?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Back that up. How is evolution good science, and Creationism and/or I.D. bad religion?

The first is driven by demonstrable fact and the second by willful ignorance.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The Law Of gravity:

This shows that it's not a theory: it's a law that can e explained.

You are using very old text books.
It has now been shown to be much more complex than that.
Your formulae gives a fair approximation only.
What you have shown is not a law.

I know of no Laws in science. ( that is school boy science)
Just best approximations .... theories.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The first is driven by demonstrable fact and the second by wilful ignorance.

Thanks save me the trouble to reply to the obvious.

 

[Luke_17:2]

The first is driven by demonstrable fact and the second by willful ignorance.

Evolution has never been demonstrated. There are so many things going against it. Name me some things that have been demonstrated that prove evolution as a fact.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Evolution has never been demonstrated.

Evolution has been repeatedly demonstrated.

 

[Luke_17:2]

You are using very old text books.
It has now been shown to be much more complex than that.
Your formulae gives a fair approximation only.
What you have shown is not a law.

elaborate

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

elaborate

Read.

 

[michel]

Evolution has never been demonstrated. There are so many things going against it. Name me some things that have been demonstrated that prove evolution as a fact.

In a microcosmic way (that we humans have had the ability to observe and record in an "average" lifetime), there have been many examples.......

The following were designedare for teaching the young http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/biology/variationandinheritance/3evolutionrev5.shtml
Simple organisms like bacteria and viruses show us examples of evolution in a very short space of time as they reproduce fast. By doubling their numbers every 20 minutes they can produce several generations in a very few hours and therefore evolve in a relatively short time.
One example is the bacterium E.coli. E.coli can grow and multiply rapidly in nutrient agar. During replication their DNA can be damaged or changed. Most of the time this results in death, but occasionally the mutation is beneficial and may change a single protein to confer immunity against antibiotics. When antibiotics are poured onto the agar plate, all bacteria will die except ones with the beneficial mutation. If present, the mutation will give rise to an antibiotic-resistant strain of E.coli.


From the same site, but from a different section

The horse
One of the few animals for which we have a fairly complete evolutionary record is the horse, as all the main stages of horse evolution have been preserved in fossil form. Over 60 million years the horse evolved from a dog-sized rainforest-dwelling creature, into an animal adapted to plains-dwelling and standing up to 2 metres high.
In the process it traded-in its multi-toed feet, adapted for walking across the forest floor, for single-toed hooves, suited for running over open country.

Just think about it;

again, but this time from http://www.besse.at/sms/evolutn.html

Animals of a given species are alike because they inherit a certain set of genes from their parents. Every so often, something goes wrong with the mechanism that transmits the genes, and an animal is born that doesn't resemble its father and mother. You probably know of examples in your own family.
If this accidental variation, or mutation, is helpful in the animal's struggle to survive, it is more likely to be passed on to succeeding generations. In this way, new species can arise.

 

[Sunstone]

So, what's the science behind creationism/Intelligent design, Luke? Or, is evolution the best explanation we currently have that fits the facts?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

elaborate

it can all be found on the web or in scientific papers.
I do not propose to study for you.

I can not understand the advanced reasoning of most of it...
nor do most laymen.
The important thing is that the specialists do.
But if you really want to delve into the detail it is all out there for you.

When you can understand it You to will be a Scientist.

 

[Luke_17:2]

You mean 15 billion years ago (I believe that's the current estimate-it changes constantly) all matter in the universe exploded after somehow condensing into a very small area (where'd the matter come from), and formed everything? How did the matter order itself into galaxies? When the sun was formed, and it was spinning, and when parts of it broke off because of the speed, and formed the planets, everything in the solar system should be spinning in the same direction, but that's not the case; three planets spin backwards, and at least 6 moons revolve backwards. In other words, we have a religion that claims to be the answer to how all life revolved, but can't even provide all the answers. I will submit that evolution has been disproven, but I will NOT submit that we should all adhere to Creationism: it can't be proved either, but it doesn't claim to be proven, and we don't want the next generation told that our theory is the only alternative, nor do we want it painted as fact: that is the main issue here.

So you can't accuse me of being biased, let's look at Creationism in a candid light: someone or something 6,000 years ago (where'd he/it come from?) created everything at a whim in seven days-including the day of rest-(how'd he do it, and why did it take six days if he's omnipotent, and why did he rest if he's God?). Then he let his creation sin, and then destroyed them with a flood?

I can answer the questions regarding Creationism. But first I must tell you: it's a religion, but it's not one hiding behind a mask of so-called "science", so it's going to appear like religion, and until you answer the questions satisfactorally regarding evolution (i.e. no theories to defend an already shaky theory), you can't dismiss these answers as ludicrous, or anything else negative.

Answer to question no. 1: God is God, and He didn't have a beginning. If He's bound by matter, time, or space then he's not God. The Bible says he is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and ending, indicating He is timeless.

Answer to question no. 2: the number 7 is very symbolic in the Bible, and it was a symbol. It was prophet of what was to come.

Answer to question no. 3: it was not rest because result of physical exertion, but the same as when a lawyer might say, "the prosecution rests". And it too was also symbolic of the future when God would tell His people to rest on the seventh day "as the Lord their God rested".

 

[Sunstone]

Fortunately , we do not have to worry about Teaching Creationism or ID in schools in the UK. Our Government were sensible enough to ban it.

Lucky you! Actually, the Dover decision pretty much wiped out any legal grounds to get intelligent design taught as science here. So, we're making some progress -- however slow.

 

[Luke_17:2]

In a microcosmic way (that we humans have had the ability to observe and record in an 2average" lifetime), there have been many examples.......

The following were designedare for teaching the young http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/biology/variationandinheritance/3evolutionrev5.shtml
Simple organisms like bacteria and viruses show us examples of evolution in a very short space of time as they reproduce fast. By doubling their numbers every 20 minutes they can produce several generations in a very few hours and therefore evolve in a relatively short time.
One example is the bacterium E.coli. E.coli can grow and multiply rapidly in nutrient agar. During replication their DNA can be damaged or changed. Most of the time this results in death, but occasionally the mutation is beneficial and may change a single protein to confer immunity against antibiotics. When antibiotics are poured onto the agar plate, all bacteria will die except ones with the beneficial mutation. If present, the mutation will give rise to an antibiotic-resistant strain of E.coli.


From the same site, but from a different section

The horse
One of the few animals for which we have a fairly complete evolutionary record is the horse, as all the main stages of horse evolution have been preserved in fossil form. Over 60 million years the horse evolved from a dog-sized rainforest-dwelling creature, into an animal adapted to plains-dwelling and standing up to 2 metres high.
In the process it traded-in its multi-toed feet, adapted for walking across the forest floor, for single-toed hooves, suited for running over open country.

Just think about it;

again, but this time from http://www.besse.at/sms/evolutn.html

Animals of a given species are alike because they inherit a certain set of genes from their parents. Every so often, something goes wrong with the mechanism that transmits the genes, and an animal is born that doesn't resemble its father and mother. You probably know of examples in your own family.
If this accidental variation, or mutation, is helpful in the animal's struggle to survive, it is more likely to be passed on to succeeding generations. In this way, new species can arise.

What you described here are examples of micro evolution-the evolution within species. And how, for example, do you know that the fossils are examples of early horses? They could easily be a different animal that died off. That's the thing about evolution: it always begins with an assumption that will hopefully go unnoticed.

 

[Luke_17:2]

Lucky you! Actually, the Dover decision pretty much wiped out any legal grounds to get intelligent design taught as science here. So, we're making some progress -- however slow.

So you're for a government that dictates what can, and cannot be taught to children-a lot like fascist Germany. You see, Hitler said, "Let me control the text books, and I will control the state." He also believed he was serving evolution by eliminating the Jews.

 

[Luke_17:2]

So, what's the science behind creationism/Intelligent design, Luke? Or, is evolution the best explanation we currently have that fits the facts?

Evolution does not fit the facts. From gravity to population: it is all out of proportion.