Evolution My ToE

[dad]

I never said that the bible told Israel to beat slaves to death. I said the bible told Israel how to own slaves. Therefore the bible/god is not against slavery.

The bible tells us how to grow food does that mean we are dirt? The bible also tells us what the heart of God is like. He sets prisoners free. He wants freedom plenty and peace and love for all.
I think unbelievers simply cannot or will not face the fact that they are in slavery! The whole world is. That is the problem.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The point is that when murderers run governments and are promoted and set free to rape and molest and steal and kill, rather than receive justice, it is not a good thing.

What has that got to do with the death penalty? You know, criminals can be locked up in these things called prisons, right? And you know murderers run the Saudi, Pakistani and Chinese governments (at least), right?

What has it got to do with what the Bible says about what sins are deserving of death?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Nowhere did the bible tell Israel or anyone else to beat slaves to death or even treat them unfairly!

You could beat them to within an inch of their life though.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No. He intervened locally in Sodom and Gomorrah, not in all the world. In the flood, He intervened worldwide but not to the point of stopping free will or sin. Noah and co were sinners. He did not stop them, He just stopped the very very very wicked. It is obvious the post-flood world was immediately involved in wickedness. When He returns to earth, He will no longer allow nations to revolt or be evil.

So his little plan to rid the world of wickedness and start over again didn't work?
You'd think god would have known that ahead of time. Instead he seems to bungle things at every turn.

 

[night912]

The bible tells us how to grow food does that mean we are dirt?

Apparently you ran out of rational ideas to support your argument and is resorting to using irrelevant comments. Since you purposely used that question out of context, I'll rewrite for you.

The bible tells us how to grow food, does that mean that god is against growing food? Are you saying that god is against growing food?

So since you claim that god is against slavery, why did god tell Israel how to own a slave?

Since god told us that we should not lie, did god tell us how to lie a certain?

 

[SkepticThinker]

You keep us posted on what spirits exist or not eh? Since you do not apparently so much as believe in them, good luck with that.

It's hard to believe in a thing that's never manifested itself in reality.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The fact of life on earth in the time of the Hebrews was that slavery was part of life. If you were organizing and raising up a people and nation at that time would you not deal with it? God did.

The way He dealt with that particular wickedness and oppression by wicked mankind was to set rules regarding it. God used slavery also because His rebelling people had to be punished at times and this involved them losing the freedom He gave them!
God also used the military of wicked nations to punish other nations as required. That does not mean He likes war. That does not mean He thought the tools used to correct His people were pure and holy or righteous.
God used soldiers to kill His son. That does not mean that the Roman empire and military were pure and good! On the contrary.
God used Satan to test the couple in the garden. That does not mean Satan was good.
God used the flood to rid the world of great evil. That does not mean huge floods are wonderful and good.
God used fire from heaven to destroy perverted wicked cities. That does not mean that He recommends you sticking your head in a barbq!
God uses what is here in the world for His purposes, and He tells us all that is in the world is evil!

What is good is to love people and show them Salvation, and feed the poor and heal, and do good. Believers are to treat employees (whether called slaves, soldiers, sweat shop workers, cashiers, underground economy employess, maids etc etc) fairly and kindly. That is what God says about slavery.

He also died a horrible painful death to set slaves free! All people on earth that have not accepted Christ are slaves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't try and tell us He does not want to set them free.

So God is evil, and he enlists his creations to carry out his evil deeds on his behalf. Great.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Divided opinion on details of ToE does not stand will not
make it "fall". Your cliche is of no value to your argument.

What would be an organism that is not "fully developed"?
I have asked that for years and creos go silent.

Please explain what you mean by fully developed,
how you know it is fully developed, how you can tell
it could not develop further, etc.

"Fully adapted" is similarly problematic, prease exprain.

As for "sudden appearance" (however fast that was)
could you fill in a few details since you seem familiar
with your topic after years of
posting about it.

How fast is sudden?
What would be a not-"fully" developed plant or animal
be like?

And-
How would you account for the ( sudden) discovery
of, say, a single bone of some mysterious animal,
with no other examples of its kind ever seen?

This sort of thing is quite common. What does it
mean?

These are serious questions, plz give it a thoughtful answer.

You're deflecting. That's how I see it.
The fossil evidence reveals these Cambrian organisms "suddenly appearing".
Yes, individual species probably were suddenly discovered, which means nothing. I once 'suddenly discovered' two brachiopods...that had no bearing on their lives. Deflection, me thinks.

As far as "fully developed"....trilobites have eyes well-suited to their environment, as if they were created for it.
Where are their precursors?

 

[Audie]

You're deflecting. That's how I see it.
The fossil evidence reveals these Cambrian organisms "suddenly appearing".
Yes, individual species probably were suddenly discovered, which means nothing. I once 'suddenly discovered' two brachiopods...that had no bearing on their lives. Deflection, me thinks.

As far as "fully developed"....trilobites have eyes well-suited to their environment, as if they were created for it.
Where are their precursors?

You kind of got what I was saying re some species
known from only one specimen. Where are its precursors?

I hoped you would actually take time to consider that question.

Should we assune this antelope, say, had no parents, no
line of descent at all? The one specimen was the
last of the line, no ancestors and no descendants?

I've need to "deflect" and I never do it You know better than
to think I was doing that.

I am trying to get you to think about how / why the fossil record
is very far from well known, lots of gaps! No fossils of
Crossopterygian (sp?) fish for 65 million years and then
someone finds a live one of a previously unknown species!

How could that happen?

Possibilitis include-

Thry live in an environment where fossilizing is all but impossible.

There may be some fossils but nobody has found any yet due to rarity.

There were no Coelacanth unltil the species was
created by god in the 20th century

The only ones in existence are the ones that have been
caught

What sounds reasonable to you?

Can you think of any resson besides "sudden" creation
by god for the absence of known ancestors for any rare
plant or animal (see Coelacanth, singlr-specimen fossil
species) ?

Your response to complete / incomplete was sketchy and
largely unresponsive so we can return to it. I am very honestly
mystifued by the concept of any living think besides an
embryo that could be anything other than fully formed.

"Half a wing" is too ridiculous to be an example you'd give.

I dont doubt you've something in mind but I cannot figure
what it is.

Oh, one more. Do you think God made all Cambrian living things
"fully formed", and such as the wombat and blatherskite evolved
from those...or what is your point about the Cambrian?

 

[SkepticThinker]

You're deflecting. That's how I see it.
The fossil evidence reveals these Cambrian organisms "suddenly appearing".
Yes, individual species probably were suddenly discovered, which means nothing. I once 'suddenly discovered' two brachiopods...that had no bearing on their lives. Deflection, me thinks.

As far as "fully developed"....trilobites have eyes well-suited to their environment, as if they were created for it.
Where are their precursors?

No it doesn't.

No it doesn't.

No it doesn't.

You've been over this several times. Plus another several times with multiple other posters.

 

[ecco]

RE: Prove

@Jim don't mind the hangups some here have with the word prove. Scientists use it. Just read the journals, and you will see it. They are not idiots. They know what they mean, and when it may be appropriate to use it.

Since you are so up on Journal reading, perhaps you can cut and paste a portion of a scientific journal or paper where the authors say they have proven anything.

Alternatively, you can retract your comment to Jim.

 

[ecco]

Understandably Atheists desperately want their beliefs to be fact

Ah, yes, the evil atheists. But what about the tens of thousands of Christian scientists who believe in and support ToE? What about the tens of thousands of Christian clergy who believe in and support ToE?

If you want to disparage atheists, OK - give it your best shot.
If you want to disparage Toe, OK - give it your best shot.

But when you try to tie ToE in exclusively with atheists, you only show your ignorance of Christians and Scientists.


ETA: You also show your bias.

 

[ecco]

Did you really just call yourself and your fellow fundamentalists demonstrably ignorant? Really?!?

I know you are but what am I?

Once again you can not address a simple question.

I'll save you the trouble - yes you did just call yourself and your fellow fundamentalists demonstrably ignorant.

Regarding Genesis, you wrote:

Better to understand the demonstrated ignorance of those who read it!

 

[Audie]

RE: Prove

Since you are so up on Journal reading, perhaps you can cut and paste a portion of a scientific journal or paper where the authors say they have proven anything.

Alternatively, you can retract your comment to Jim.

Fat chance. But don’t be the kind of girl
Who gives up just like that.

 

[YoursTrue]

haha, lets see if you can stack up even two "Believers" (who all get
their Truth from God) who believe the same thing.

I could not agree with someone who calls himself a Christian but believes each day of creation is 24 hours. I have friends who are fellow believers who agree that each day could be thousands and possibly millions of years. Not everyone knows or recognizes that the 'seventh day' has not ended, according to the scriptures.

 

[YoursTrue]

One could still be satisfied and see their life as complete even when they or a loved one is about to die. If they were satisfied with the the life that they lived and/or with that person that is about to die.

People often cry and go into mourning when a loved one dies.

 

[YoursTrue]

Not what I asked... I asked is Peter more important than Jesus in your religion?



Which version of the bible are you using? Mine reads differently.

I might say that Jesus was under the law of Moses, he did not deviate. Therefore, although his meals are not listed, it is more than reasonable to assume he did not eat pork or shrimp or bats.

 

[YoursTrue]

Whatevs, you are not worth any more attention.

I must say also that while fossils are interesting, and bacteria can produce other bacteria, nothing has convinced me that humans and lions came about by evolution.

 

[Audie]

I could not agree with someone who calls himself a Christian but believes each day of creation is 24 hours. I have friends who are fellow believers who agree that each day could be thousands and possibly millions of years. Not everyone knows or recognizes that the 'seventh day' has not ended, according to the scriptures.

Sounds reasonable up to where people get into how
God coaches them to find the true meaning.

Might believe if it were not all were not calling
as Joseph Smith would put it, "Lo here and Lo thete"

 

[Audie]

I must say also that while fossils are interesting, and bacteria can produce other bacteria, nothing has convinced me that humans and lions came about by evolution.

I totally believe that. Two probable ressons, imo:


-A life -and- death solid conviction that evolution cannot
be so, based on youf belief in what thd bible is seen
as being and saying

-Very llittle has been seen by you on the subject, other
than what is presented, pre digested as it were, from
Creationist sites. So of course you've seen nothing
to show you how it works

The hard hours of lab lecture librsry and field such as I completed
(mostly to please my Dad), no. You've not done thst.

You have not gone there, so you have not seen.

All your effort apoears to be in fighting iagainst lear ing it

We who have studied cannot help but recognize the errors
you make as readily as readily as you would if i tried
to explain your job to you, or do an after game show
in football! . Imagine...

Now, i personally love how being able to read the landscape
with geologist eyes makes it come alive, its, like you know
the story, you can run the "video" of how this valley formed,
how it will change, backwards anc forewards.

Evolution is kind of like that. Knowing what a creature is!

It is said that nothing in biology really makes sense
without the explanatory framework of evolution.

Now, this may not matter to you, which is fine if kind of
too bad. Not everyone cares.

Some do. Of those-

Some feel God is smart enough to be able to make s universe
that can operate and generate wonders ftom the matter and
governing laws, no need to tinker and adjust as if its a
cantakerous old British sports car.

I hope you will at least consider looking into how evolutiion actually
works, the history of life is as cool a thing as there is.

Wishing you well-

its me, Min