Evolution My ToE

[dad]

Just as a matter of interest, why is this astounding miracle not recorded in the synoptic gospels?

Why was it not imprinted on baseball cards either?? These are all burning questions.

 

[dad]

So are fairy tales. No one could have saved Rapunzel if she did not have such long hair. Clear evidence for that just like yours. Snow White could not have been woken up from here deep sleep if that had not been prince charming. She woke up from his kiss. What more evidence could you ask for. With your logic in hand all fiction becomes truth and what is measured observed or tested becomes false. Clearly you have gone through the rabbit hole and never come out.

Equating Scripture with fables is par for the course for disciples of origin science. Perhaps you think there was no King David either? Abraham? Paul? You try to wave recorded facts away while pulpit pounding your own religion of so-called science.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Keep pretending all you like. Your posts betray you.

I have heard the baseless doubts behind what you are trying to say.

Says you, who have no clue what went down.

Ignorant claim.

Poor dad, everyone can see that you are simply whistling as you walk past the cemetery. Creationists quite often have an elevated fear of death. It can make the most rational of people sound insane at times. Unlike you I do not need to make wild fear based rants against reality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Equating Scripture with fables is par for the course for disciples of origin science. Perhaps you think there was no King David either? Abraham? Paul? You try to wave recorded facts away while pulpit pounding your own religion of so-called science.

The further one goes back in time the less accurate the Bible is. Paul was a real person. Probably only slightly mentally ill. "King David" was likely a real figure, but the tales of the Bible are likely about as accurate as Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. And Abraham of the Bible is likely pure myth.

 

[Audie]

The further one goes back in time the less accurate the Bible is. Paul was a real person. Probably only slightly mentally ill. "King David" was likely a real figure, but the tales of the Bible are likely about as accurate as Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. And Abraham of the Bible is likely pure myth.

Saul saw a chance to hijack the faith. Cynical phony is more
probable than mental illness.

 

[Audie]

Poor dad, everyone can see that you are simply whistling as you walk past the cemetery. Creationists quite often have an elevated fear of death. It can make the most rational of people sound insane at times. Unlike you I do not need to make wild fear based rants against reality.

Everyone?
Not really. Some of us have enuf sense to avoid the
unseemly display.

 

[Polymath257]

Saul saw a chance to hijack the faith. Cynical phony is more
probable than mental illness.

I'm betting a bit of temporal lobe epilepsy mixed in. Which isn't mental illness, but can produce some interesting visions.

I find it likely that Paul actually believed what he was saying as he was hijacking the faith.

 

[Audie]

I'm betting a bit of temporal lobe epilepsy mixed in. Which isn't mental illness, but can produce some interesting visions.

I find it likely that Paul actually believed what he was saying as he was hijacking the faith.

You think he believed that absurd snake story?

 

[Polymath257]

You think he believed that absurd snake story?

Yes. Many people have. Remember, this was a pre-scientific society that saw the universe being smaller than what we now know is the orbit of Saturn. They actually believed in a heaven above the sky and a messenger from God. They actually believed in the transformations of Ovid's Metamorphosis.

 

[Audie]

Yes. Many people have. Remember, this was a pre-scientific society that saw the universe being smaller than what we now know is the orbit of Saturn. They actually believed in a heaven above the sky and a messenger from God. They actually believed in the transformations of Ovid's Metamorphosis.

Saul believed his own lie about the snake?

What is described could not possibly have happened.

 

[YoursTrue]

I've been thinking about this post for a while, now....I've accomplished much of what I needed to get done.
There's a lot here to reply to; I appreciate your thoughtful points.

You know, however, that I presented more Flood evidence, than just a Chinese character. Much more....

If archaeologists recently unearthed an ancient document that spoke of a man, who survived a cataclysmic flood by building a boat that was basically a huge box.... '120 cubits by 120 cubits square, 90 cubits high,' as described in the Gilgamesh myth... there'd be no doubt that it was a fable.

But, if they found the story described a boat with modern ratios, they would think the story was fact.
Now, you and I and everyone else knows the story has a supernatural quality to it, events that reveal Divine intervention, in many aspects.

Let's consider one: the reason behind Jehovah God bringing it on. Genesis 6:1-4 gives a few details...sons of God taking women, "all whom they chose". (And the common thread between the ancient Greek, Roman, Norse, Hindu, etc., myths actually highlight it. Common threads in stories, is where truth is found.)

If you will please bear with me, I'm going to go off-topic twice, somewhat... but it's all related....

Is there evidence for the supernatural? Talk to the numerous posters on here (RF), like the Ragin Pagan, or others, who regularly converse with their spirit guides or gods, whatever they call them. I've spoken with Jose Fly, It Aint Necessarily So, & a few others....they stop short of calling these ones, 'delusional'.

Have you ever read the link I've posted before, on Lincoln's ghost - Wikipedia ...

Here's an excerpt:
"Perhaps the most famous incident was in 1942 when Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands allegedly heard footsteps outside her White House bedroom and answered a knock on the door, only to see Lincoln in frock coat and top hat standing in front of her (she promptly fainted).[13]

British Prime Minister Winston Churchill loved to retire late, take a long, hot bath while drinking a Scotch, and smoke a cigar and relax. There is an account that on this occasion, he climbed out of the bath and naked, but for his cigar, walked into the adjoining bedroom. He was startled to see Lincoln standing by the fireplace in the room, leaning on the mantle. Churchill, always quick on the uptake, simply took his cigar out of his mouth, tapped the ash off the end of his cigar and said "Good evening, Mr. President. You seem to have me at a disadvantage." Lincoln smiled softly, as if laughing and disappeared. Churchill smiled in embarrassment.[14]

President Lyndon Johnson supposedly encountered Lincoln's apparition, during a moment of great distress. President Johnson reportedly spoke to Lincoln, asking him how he handled an unpopular war (Lincoln was President during the American Civil War, which was extremely unpopular and Johnson was dealing with massive backlash over the Vietnam War). Lincoln reportedly replied "don't go to the theater."

Lincoln's ghost was reportedly seen outside of the White House as well. In Loudonville, New York, Lincoln's ghost was said to haunt a house that was owned by a woman who was present at Ford's Theatre when Lincoln was shot by John Wilkes Booth. Other Lincoln hauntings included his grave in Springfield, Illinois, a portrait of Mary Todd Lincoln and a phantom train on nights in April along the same path his funeral train followed from Washington, D.C. to Springfield.[15]

The last sighting of Lincoln's ghost was in the early 1980s, when Tony Savoy, White House operations foreman, came into the White House and saw Lincoln sitting in a chair at the top of some stairs.[13]"

Were these people, "delusional"?

Now Earthwide, multiply these experiences, by a million!

Yes, granted, many (most, even) are faked. But all? No way.

Why do incidents like this happen? I've heard the explanation, "people want to believe their dead loved ones are living (in another realm) ." Was Abraham Lincoln, a "loved one" of Queen Wilhelmina? Or Winston Churchill?

And if these dead loved ones are genuine, and it's what people "want to believe"... why is there so much fear involved in cultures that promote ancestor worship? (It touches so many cultures, in some way or another!) I mean, wouldn't your dead G-parents, if they were really living, still love you? Why be afraid of them?

Because here's the kicker: the dead are dead, they "know nothing", according to the Bible. Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 146:3-4

The Resurrection is the future hope for the dead, nothing else.

Saying "the dead don't really die; they go to live somewhere else," is simply reinforcing the first lie, when the serpent told Eve, "You positively will not die"! And this idea is seen worldwide, promoted by almost every religion!

Aided by these "Ghost" stories. But these ghosts can't really be our dead loved ones, because they "know nothing"; they're dead!

Who are these imposters, trying to mislead everyone?
They are "the angels that sinned" (2 Peter 2:4), who "did not stay in their own domain, but abandoned their proper dwelling place" (Jude 1:6)....those "sons of God" of Genesis 6.

More on this later, I've got to go.
I hope you're willing to reason on this. It explains why God had to destroy the animals, too. (Please read Matthew 8:28-34.)

I read the Scriptures about these things, and I see the hurting and confusion that people are experiencing worldwide...I understand who is behind all this mess! (Just a little while longer.)

The Bible explains a lot, if people would be open minded & try to understand it.

Great post. Thank you for it. Makes sense.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Saul saw a chance to hijack the faith. Cynical phony is more
probable than mental illness.

Or possibly a massive hypocrite. His writings hint at him being a homosexual in a very homophobic society with a very homophobic religion. His only answer was to vilify that part of himself and the same feelings that others may have had. Strong self loathing can be a very strong motivator.

 

[Audie]

Or possibly a massive hypocrite. His writings hint at him being a homosexual in a very homophobic society with a very homophobic religion. His only answer was to vilify that part of himself and the same feelings that others may have had. Strong self loathing can be a very strong motivator.

I’m not much on time machine remote
view psychiatry.

Phony, though, sure.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I’m not much on time machine remote
view psychiatry.

Phony, though, sure.

Yes, hard to tell at this point. As to the snake story I have seen people believe crazy things about events that they were involved in. It does not make them a liar. Their own fears and biases can color how they interpret their past. As to "snake stories" I remember while on a university geology field trip a student from Africa was with us. He saw a snake and screamed and ran, much to everyone else's amusement. In Minnesota one would be hard pressed to find a rattlesnake. They are very few and far between. And we were not in such an area. If he was not told that it was not venomous he might have had a different story as the years went by. Emotion does that to a person.

 

[dad]

.. you are simply whistling as you walk past the cemetery.

Ain't no grave, gonna hold my body down!

 

[dad]

The further one goes back in time the less accurate the Bible is.

Since man has less ability to check the further we go back in time, you are not saying much.

Paul was a real person. Probably only slightly mentally ill.

Let's review your position. You say prophecy in the bible was written after the fact in a colossal con job. You say Mary was impregnated by a man and was a con artist. You now say that the great apostle Paul was mentally ill.

"King David" was likely a real figure, but the tales of the Bible are likely about as accurate as Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. And Abraham of the Bible is likely pure myth.

Now you claim Scripture is totally inaccurate.

Lurkers, behold the spirit behind the posts.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That day is every day for me.
In one example in history, Mary got evidence that what Gabriel told her was true. It was observed. If science was there, it would say it was impossible.

So every day for you is a logical fallacy.

Sounds about right.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ain't no grave, gonna hold my body down!

That is wishful thinking at best. Once again, whistling as one walks by the graveyard.

 

[SkepticThinker]

History and Scripture are records of encounters with spirits and spiritual things.

In every case, people affected had evidence! Elijah had evidence of the food dropped by ravens in his belly! Mary had evidence of what the angel said in her belly!

Again, the Bible contains claims. Where is the evidence?

I know a guy who says he's Napoleon Bonaparte reincarnated. His evidence that he is Napoleon Bonaparte reincarnated comes from the voice in his head that tells him he is Napoleon Bonaparte reincarnated. He must be Napoleon Bonaparte reincarnated, right?

Not as far as science goes.

We're using your bizarre line of logic here where whatever anybody claims is true until shown otherwise. So yeah, fairies fixed my broken toe. That's now a truth until you prove me wrong. (I'm sure you're seeing how silly this is, right?)

 

[Subduction Zone]

Since man has less ability to check the further we go back in time, you are not saying much.

No,. we are able to check out quite a few of the Bible claims. Or did you forget the failure of Luke's Nativity?

Let's review your position. You say prophecy in the bible was written after the fact in a colossal con job. You say Mary was impregnated by a man and was a con artist. You now say that the great apostle Paul was mentally ill.

No, I did not say that. I said some of it was written after the fact. Not all of it. One of the flaws of creationist thinking is that most of them have an "all or nothing" approach to everything. There are clear failed prophecies in the Bible. There is history written as prophecy in the Bible. There are prophecies that fail because they are overly vague. What we do not see is the successful prophecy that you claim but cannot support. And I never said that Mary was a con artist. You said that. And yes, Paul was almost certainly mentally ill. Hey! You did get that right. Congratulations.

Now you claim Scripture is totally inaccurate.

Nope. Once again this is a black and white fallacy.

Lurkers, behold the spirit behind the posts.

I know. The spirit of honesty. It is so hard for a creationist to deal with that.

dad, instead of your usual Gish Gallop of errors why don't we try to deal with one concept at a time?