Evolution My ToE

[Subduction Zone]

No such thing, they made it up whole of cloth.

You do not know enough to make that claim.

 

[dad]

How do you know that Paul was "of sound mind"

He was highly educated, a Pharisee of Pharisees. He wrote most of the New Testament. His writings are highly intelligent. He had the Spirit of God that gives us a sound mind.
Since God called him, we can assume that God knew what He was doing.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Everything in Scripture is factual, but sometimes it requires a symbolic understanding.

For example, here’s an understanding you may not have come across: Revelation 21:1, which says....”And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.”

This isn’t literal. Both plant and animal life need the oceans for survival! No doubt the planet itself, in ways we don’t fully understand yet.

So what does this mean? If you read the description found @ Isaiah 57:20, you’ll grasp what Revelation 21:1 is talking about, which makes a lot more sense!

The Bible always “makes sense”, when it’s interpreted correctly....just like the evidence discovered by genuine science, reaching sound conclusions.

Like the scientific understanding of energy, that it can neither be created nor destroyed...it only can change in form. (If energy can’t be created ex nihilo, then that means, what? It’s always existed, in some form.)
Well, this perfectly describes Jehovah God’s eternal existence... He is not made of matter; rather, He is the supreme intelligence, in a form of pure energy. The Source of all matter’s origin. The Big Bang, for one. Genesis 1:1.

You identify as Christian Methodist. I’d sure like to know your view of God, and the origin of physical life.

How does one recognize when they have interpreted the Bible cortectly? Is there a set of metrics?

As writing, The Book of Revelations is interesting, but it should have been left out of the Bible. Its symbolism is too confusing for modern readers and the temptation to find meaning in it that is not there has been too strong for many of those readers. It has helped turn Christianity into a death cult through some extreme interpretations.

Certainly, some scientific findings can be turned, after the fact, to fit certain religious claims, but these laws were determined based on the observations of nature and not in descriptions of God or other claims of the Bible.

About the only thing regarding my personal religious views that is relevant to our discussion is that I do not let church doctrine or biblical allegory distort my knowledge. As I see it, God, in some way I do not understand, gave me senses to view the world and a brain to evaluate and conclude about that information. He clearly wanted me to think and draw my own conclusions and not disregard them or parrot some doctrine.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You do not know enough to make that claim.

just when it looked like we might have a descent discussion too.

 

[dad]

Really?
And you know what God thinks?

Yes, of course. He wrote it down for us. We have the mind of God.

1Co 2:16 - For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[McBell]

Yes, of course. He wrote it down for us. We have the mind of God.

1Co 2:16 - For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Um...
That verse is asking who knows the mind of god and then rather pointedly says Jesus.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Everything in Scripture is factual, but sometimes it requires a symbolic understanding.

For example, here’s an understanding you may not have come across: Revelation 21:1, which says....”And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.”

This isn’t literal. Both plant and animal life need the oceans for survival! No doubt the planet itself, in ways we don’t fully understand yet.

So what does this mean? If you read the description found @ Isaiah 57:20, you’ll grasp what Revelation 21:1 is talking about, which makes a lot more sense!

The Bible always “makes sense”, when it’s interpreted correctly....just like the evidence discovered by genuine science, reaching sound conclusions.

Like the scientific understanding of energy, that it can neither be created nor destroyed...it only can change in form. (If energy can’t be created ex nihilo, then that means, what? It’s always existed, in some form.)
Well, this perfectly describes Jehovah God’s eternal existence... He is not made of matter; rather, He is the supreme intelligence, in a form of pure energy. The Source of all matter’s origin. The Big Bang, for one. Genesis 1:1.

You identify as Christian Methodist. I’d sure like to know your view of God, and the origin of physical life.

I do not believe as a JW does and I do not appreciate some of the positions taken by your church, but that is true even of my own denomination. I accept that you believe and worship through the institution of your choice. Where we come to opposition is in claims publicly made by that church or its members. These are up for discussion and open to debate. The same is true of fundamentalist and creationist claims of the same nature in general.

I know it is unrealistic in some ways to suggest that someone believe in something and remain silent about it. However, it is not silence that I am suggesting. A lot of what human religious institutions demand of their practitioners is not required for a belief in God, with regards to Christianity or other Abrahamic religions, at least. A person can voice what they believe, but they should not expect others to accept it without question or see it as some universal truth without reason to.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Um...
That verse is asking who knows the mind of god and then rather pointedly says Jesus.

Have you ever wondered if some people missed their calling, even while there are so many used cars in need of selling?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Everything in Scripture is factual, but sometimes it requires a symbolic understanding.

For example, here’s an understanding you may not have come across: Revelation 21:1, which says....”And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.”

This isn’t literal. Both plant and animal life need the oceans for survival! No doubt the planet itself, in ways we don’t fully understand yet.

So what does this mean? If you read the description found @ Isaiah 57:20, you’ll grasp what Revelation 21:1 is talking about, which makes a lot more sense!

The Bible always “makes sense”, when it’s interpreted correctly....just like the evidence discovered by genuine science, reaching sound conclusions.

Like the scientific understanding of energy, that it can neither be created nor destroyed...it only can change in form. (If energy can’t be created ex nihilo, then that means, what? It’s always existed, in some form.)
Well, this perfectly describes Jehovah God’s eternal existence... He is not made of matter; rather, He is the supreme intelligence, in a form of pure energy. The Source of all matter’s origin. The Big Bang, for one. Genesis 1:1.

You identify as Christian Methodist. I’d sure like to know your view of God, and the origin of physical life.

If you examine the evidence of science related to an issue controversial to some religious positions and determine that you accept the scientific conclusions, what would you do? Is it intellectually honest to adhere to a church doctrine that your conclusions are at odds with? Do you think that it means you must give up your belief in God? Could it mean that some interpretations need upgrading and belief in God can still remain intact? Do you think God does not want us to interpret observations the best we can or is that just the bias of a human institution? Maybe we do not understand as well as we want to believe we do.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

@Dan From Smithville , I’ve enjoyed our discussion tonight, but I gotta go. TTYL.

I have enjoyed it too. I know that it can get robust, but I have hope that some common ground can be found.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Really?
And you know what God thinks?

He appears to believe he does.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Oh come on! I'm pretty confident our omnipotent God knew exactly what was going to happen to the apple in the garden with a naked woman prancing about!

Now is that is a positive image to end the discussion with.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

First of all, facts don’t arise from inquiry. It’s the facts that lead to inquiry.
And, many times, faulty interpretations.

You said you never remember me posting that I agree that “evolution occurs”. Well, ok. But I do...it’s obvious. Otherwise, we’d have only one breed of Dogs, one of Cats, one of Horses, etc. (These limited mutations within the genome were Divinely arranged for, and purposed, for our benefit, btw. You have any reasoned guesses as to why?)

Do you remember that I’m not a YEC, either?

New facts are found during inquiry, but you are correct too. And many times sound interpretations.

I have no knowledge that any mutation was divinely contrived. I know of no evidence to give reason to conclude that nor do I know anyone that does. You are confusing what you believe with observations.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

First of all, facts don’t arise from inquiry. It’s the facts that lead to inquiry.
And, many times, faulty interpretations.

You said you never remember me posting that I agree that “evolution occurs”. Well, ok. But I do...it’s obvious. Otherwise, we’d have only one breed of Dogs, one of Cats, one of Horses, etc. (These limited mutations within the genome were Divinely arranged for, and purposed, for our benefit, btw. You have any reasoned guesses as to why?)

Do you remember that I’m not a YEC, either?

So you accept mico-evolution? Based on the evidence, I accept the theory of evolution. It does not rob me of my belief in God nor should it. My belief is not a consideration of the scientific conclusions. They can be accepted by a person of any faith or none at all.

I do recall that you stated you are not a YEC.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He was highly educated, a Pharisee of Pharisees. He wrote most of the New Testament. His writings are highly intelligent. He had the Spirit of God that gives us a sound mind.
Since God called him, we can assume that God knew what He was doing.

Some of his writings are highly intelligent, some not so much. And you are making some huge assumptions that you need to support. I don't think that you can. So since you said a lot of things that look like nonsense does that mean that Paul was sane? No, not nearly. But lucky for you it does not mean that he is insane either.

 

[Bear Wild]

Paul was of sound mind and quite learned and brilliant. Jesus is the Son of God, so He got His body from God and Mary.

So you have first hand knowledge with Paul to make that certain claim. How often to you talk to Paul? Daily?
If Jesus is the actual son of GOD and Mary then GOD must be male or be both male and female. So to your knowledge is god just male or is god part male and part female?

 

[Bear Wild]

Not necessarily. It is possible and even likely that most dinos were extinct by the time the flood came. But even if there were dinos at the time the ark was being built, unless they were created kinds, they would not really be a kind that was asked to come on the ark.
So, when the ark landed would no longer be the time of the dinos! The time of the dinos would have ended about at least a year before this.

Exactly how do you know what was created or not. If dinosaurs were not created where did they come from.

You get more creative with time but this line is truly astounding. "The time of the dinos would have ended about at least a year before this" Ok I cant help but ask how do you know the time of the dinosaurs was at least one year before this. Please explain this one!

 

[Bear Wild]

God was the One that called the kinds to the ark. I assume He called the original kinds that were created, rather than highly evolved/adapted creatures.

So some animals were created but others evolved, is that correct? Therefore there must have been life on earth that evolved before god popped into the picture and created new creatures or that only some creatures had the ability to evolve. Please explain how you know this.

 

[Bear Wild]

In the former nature, evolution happened lightning fast compared to today. So in the 1600 years before the flood, a lot of evolving went on. If dinosaurs were creatures that had evolved from created kinds of creatures in that time, they would probably not get the invite to the ark.
Simple.

Exactly how did you come up with 1600 years? This idea would be easy to test. The geologic record should show that birds or whatever animal the dinosaurs evolved from should be found in sedimentary layers below the dinosaurs. Do you have an example or are you just making this up as you go along. Where does you information come from? I really want to know.

 

[YoursTrue]

Everything in Scripture is factual, but sometimes it requires a symbolic understanding.

For example, here’s an understanding you may not have come across: Revelation 21:1, which says....”And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.”

This isn’t literal. Both plant and animal life need the oceans for survival! No doubt the planet itself, in ways we don’t fully understand yet.

So what does this mean? If you read the description found @ Isaiah 57:20, you’ll grasp what Revelation 21:1 is talking about, which makes a lot more sense!

The Bible always “makes sense”, when it’s interpreted correctly....just like the evidence discovered by genuine science, reaching sound conclusions.

Like the scientific understanding of energy, that it can neither be created nor destroyed...it only can change in form. (If energy can’t be created ex nihilo, then that means, what? It’s always existed, in some form.)
Well, this perfectly describes Jehovah God’s eternal existence... He is not made of matter; rather, He is the supreme intelligence, in a form of pure energy. The Source of all matter’s origin. The Big Bang, for one. Genesis 1:1.

Absolutely. Marvelous to think about.