Evolution My ToE

[YoursTrue]

The article you have a link to did a good job showing how as more evidence occurs we can refine our interpretation. That's what makes science such a powerful tool of discovery. The fact that we have not yet found the last common ancestor does not weaken the theory of evolution and the accumulating evidence as presented demonstrates that all of the new evidence supports evolution and no other explanation. Thank you for the link.

So there is obviously a missing link insofar as the development of humans go. The similarities, however, they find among biological structures do not verify the idea of evolution. The theory they are trying to fit evidence into is still simply that: a theory. They may say it is true, but that's only because they say it's true, not because it is true.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Nice, thought-provoking post.

How does one recognize when they have interpreted the Bible cortectly? Is there a set of metrics?

As writing, The Book of Revelations is interesting, but it should have been left out of the Bible. Its symbolism is too confusing for modern readers and the temptation to find meaning in it that is not there has been too strong for many of those readers. It has helped turn Christianity into a death cult through some extreme interpretations.

Certainly, some scientific findings can be turned, after the fact, to fit certain religious claims, but these laws were determined based on the observations of nature and not in descriptions of God or other claims of the Bible.

About the only thing regarding my personal religious views that is relevant to our discussion is that I do not let church doctrine or biblical allegory distort my knowledge. As I see it, God, in some way I do not understand, gave me senses to view the world and a brain to evaluate and conclude about that information. He clearly wanted me to think and draw my own conclusions and not disregard them or parrot some doctrine.

“How does one recognize when they have interpreted the Bible cortectly? Is there a set of metrics?”

Good question.
If the Bible is from God, as it claims....and, lord knows, it’s got a lot of content that can be twisted and misconstrued....do you think we could ‘figure it out on our own’, or that we might need God’s help to properly understand it?

Well, that brings up a “set of metrics,” as you put it; criteria, standards.
It hinges on obedience to God’s commands. I mean, why would God give any understanding, to those who don’t listen to Him? Jesus said something regarding divine revelation, @ Luke 10:21. (Keep in mind, Jesus stated here that his Father — the God of Israel, Yahweh, Jehovah — was the one who revealed accurate understanding. Not himself.) As Jesus is called “the Word of God,” he spoke for God.

How many religions, ‘love their enemy’ (Matthew 5:44)? As in, refuse to kill during a conflict? (Really, how can any killing of anyone be construed as love for them?)

Grief, religions don’t even ‘love their brothers’! John 13:34-35.

SCENARIO during a war....
A soldier, who is a (Baptist?, Presbyterian?) comes across an enemy combatant: “Excuse me..I need to know that you are not a (Baptist?, Presbyterian?), before I shoot you.”

I guarantee, that never happened.

That’s one criterion, a main one.
Another is fornication (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Colossians 3:5-6; Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29)....if a religion allows its members to disregard marriage, and even passively condones extramarital sex, it’s not following Jehovah’s guidelines.

Notice, Im saying religion, as in institutions...not so much individuals. These ones have simply been misled by their leaders. These religions bear a heavy responsibility, and are held accountable.

They shouldn’t expect to receive any accurate understanding. In fact, it’s only in the “Last Days”, when “true knowledge will become abundant.” (Daniel 12 3,4,9,10.) That brings into question long-held dogmas. Like Hellfire.

Also in the “Last Days”, will the events of Isaiah 2:2-4 occur.
Let me quote from a Bible that uses God’s Name...

“2And it shall come to pass in the end of days, [that] the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow unto it.

3And many peoples shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and Jehovah's word from Jerusalem.

4And he shall judge among the nations, and shall reprove many peoples; and they shall forge their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-knives: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.”

Isaiah 2 DBT

Jehovah’s worshippers, pursue peace.

(FYI, That last part of the Scripture — vs.4 — is on the U.N. building. Not that it does much good.)


You said, “As I see it, God, in some way I do not understand, gave me senses to view the world and a brain to evaluate and conclude about that information. He clearly wanted me to think and draw my own conclusions and not disregard them or parrot some doctrine.”

Sounds similar to what Galileo Galilee said. (You’re in good company!)

I feel the same way...but I do it in the light of 1 John 5:19 and Revelation 12:9. I’m aware of who is really controlling and misleading this world.

Like I said in an earlier post to you, regarding the condition of the dead...yet it’s made to appear that they’re living. This occurs worldwide! That’s a lot of misleading going on!

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Nice, thought-provoking post.



“How does one recognize when they have interpreted the Bible cortectly? Is there a set of metrics?”

Good question.
If the Bible is from God, as it claims....and, lord knows, it’s got a lot of content that can be twisted and misconstrued....do you think we could ‘figure it out on our own’, or that we might need God’s help to properly understand it?

Well, that brings up a “set of metrics,” as you put it; criteria, standards.
It hinges on obedience to God’s commands. I mean, why would God give any understanding, to those who don’t listen to Him? Jesus said something regarding divine revelation, @ Luke 10:21. (Keep in mind, Jesus stated here that his Father — the God of Israel, Yahweh, Jehovah — was the one who revealed accurate understanding. Not himself.) As Jesus is called “the Word of God,” he spoke for God.

How many religions, ‘love their enemy’ (Matthew 5:44)? As in, refuse to kill during a conflict? (Really, how can any killing of anyone be construed as love for them?)

Grief, religions don’t even ‘love their brothers’! John 13:34-35.

SCENARIO during a war....
A soldier, who is a (Baptist?, Presbyterian?) comes across an enemy combatant: “Excuse me..I need to know that you are not a (Baptist?, Presbyterian?), before I shoot you.”

I guarantee, that never happened.

That’s one criterion, a main one.
Another is fornication (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Colossians 3:5-6; Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29)....if a religion allows its members to disregard marriage, and even passively condones extramarital sex, it’s not following Jehovah’s guidelines.

Notice, Im saying religion, as in institutions...not so much individuals. These ones have simply been misled by their leaders. These religions bear a heavy responsibility, and are held accountable.

They shouldn’t expect to receive any accurate understanding. In fact, it’s only in the “Last Days”, when “true knowledge will become abundant.” (Daniel 12 3,4,9,10.) That brings into question long-held dogmas. Like Hellfire.

Also in the “Last Days”, will the events of Isaiah 2:2-4 occur.
Let me quote from a Bible that uses God’s Name...

“2And it shall come to pass in the end of days, [that] the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow unto it.

3And many peoples shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and Jehovah's word from Jerusalem.

4And he shall judge among the nations, and shall reprove many peoples; and they shall forge their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-knives: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.”

Isaiah 2 DBT

Jehovah’s worshippers, pursue peace.

(FYI, That last part of the Scripture — vs.4 — is on the U.N. building. Not that it does much good.)


You said, “As I see it, God, in some way I do not understand, gave me senses to view the world and a brain to evaluate and conclude about that information. He clearly wanted me to think and draw my own conclusions and not disregard them or parrot some doctrine.”

Sounds similar to what Galileo Galilee said. (You’re in good company!)

I feel the same way...but I do it in the light of 1 John 5:19 and Revelation 12:9. I’m aware of who is really controlling and misleading this world.

Like I said in an earlier post to you, regarding the condition of the dead...yet it’s made to appear that they’re living.

If someone claims that they have spoken with God and He has given them the correct interpretation of scripture, how am I to know this? What screens them from those have not spoken to Him or only think they have and made the same claims? Lots of different interpretations by different religions have all been touted as directly communicated by God. That cannot be possible. So how do you know which is correct in a way that you can demonstrate to anyone and they can see it too?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Nice, thought-provoking post.



“How does one recognize when they have interpreted the Bible cortectly? Is there a set of metrics?”

Good question.
If the Bible is from God, as it claims....and, lord knows, it’s got a lot of content that can be twisted and misconstrued....do you think we could ‘figure it out on our own’, or that we might need God’s help to properly understand it?

Well, that brings up a “set of metrics,” as you put it; criteria, standards.
It hinges on obedience to God’s commands. I mean, why would God give any understanding, to those who don’t listen to Him? Jesus said something regarding divine revelation, @ Luke 10:21. (Keep in mind, Jesus stated here that his Father — the God of Israel, Yahweh, Jehovah — was the one who revealed accurate understanding. Not himself.) As Jesus is called “the Word of God,” he spoke for God.

How many religions, ‘love their enemy’ (Matthew 5:44)? As in, refuse to kill during a conflict? (Really, how can any killing of anyone be construed as love for them?)

Grief, religions don’t even ‘love their brothers’! John 13:34-35.

SCENARIO during a war....
A soldier, who is a (Baptist?, Presbyterian?) comes across an enemy combatant: “Excuse me..I need to know that you are not a (Baptist?, Presbyterian?), before I shoot you.”

I guarantee, that never happened.

That’s one criterion, a main one.
Another is fornication (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Colossians 3:5-6; Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29)....if a religion allows its members to disregard marriage, and even passively condones extramarital sex, it’s not following Jehovah’s guidelines.

Notice, Im saying religion, as in institutions...not so much individuals. These ones have simply been misled by their leaders. These religions bear a heavy responsibility, and are held accountable.

They shouldn’t expect to receive any accurate understanding. In fact, it’s only in the “Last Days”, when “true knowledge will become abundant.” (Daniel 12 3,4,9,10.) That brings into question long-held dogmas. Like Hellfire.

Also in the “Last Days”, will the events of Isaiah 2:2-4 occur.
Let me quote from a Bible that uses God’s Name...

“2And it shall come to pass in the end of days, [that] the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow unto it.

3And many peoples shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and Jehovah's word from Jerusalem.

4And he shall judge among the nations, and shall reprove many peoples; and they shall forge their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-knives: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.”

Isaiah 2 DBT

Jehovah’s worshippers, pursue peace.

(FYI, That last part of the Scripture — vs.4 — is on the U.N. building. Not that it does much good.)


You said, “As I see it, God, in some way I do not understand, gave me senses to view the world and a brain to evaluate and conclude about that information. He clearly wanted me to think and draw my own conclusions and not disregard them or parrot some doctrine.”

Sounds similar to what Galileo Galilee said. (You’re in good company!)

I feel the same way...but I do it in the light of 1 John 5:19 and Revelation 12:9. I’m aware of who is really controlling and misleading this world.

Like I said in an earlier post to you, regarding the condition of the dead...yet it’s made to appear that they’re living. This occurs worldwide! That’s a lot of misleading going on!

What do I do if the enemy I love is about to kill a child I love?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Nice, thought-provoking post.



“How does one recognize when they have interpreted the Bible cortectly? Is there a set of metrics?”

Good question.
If the Bible is from God, as it claims....and, lord knows, it’s got a lot of content that can be twisted and misconstrued....do you think we could ‘figure it out on our own’, or that we might need God’s help to properly understand it?

Well, that brings up a “set of metrics,” as you put it; criteria, standards.
It hinges on obedience to God’s commands. I mean, why would God give any understanding, to those who don’t listen to Him? Jesus said something regarding divine revelation, @ Luke 10:21. (Keep in mind, Jesus stated here that his Father — the God of Israel, Yahweh, Jehovah — was the one who revealed accurate understanding. Not himself.) As Jesus is called “the Word of God,” he spoke for God.

How many religions, ‘love their enemy’ (Matthew 5:44)? As in, refuse to kill during a conflict? (Really, how can any killing of anyone be construed as love for them?)

Grief, religions don’t even ‘love their brothers’! John 13:34-35.

SCENARIO during a war....
A soldier, who is a (Baptist?, Presbyterian?) comes across an enemy combatant: “Excuse me..I need to know that you are not a (Baptist?, Presbyterian?), before I shoot you.”

I guarantee, that never happened.

That’s one criterion, a main one.
Another is fornication (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Colossians 3:5-6; Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29)....if a religion allows its members to disregard marriage, and even passively condones extramarital sex, it’s not following Jehovah’s guidelines.

Notice, Im saying religion, as in institutions...not so much individuals. These ones have simply been misled by their leaders. These religions bear a heavy responsibility, and are held accountable.

They shouldn’t expect to receive any accurate understanding. In fact, it’s only in the “Last Days”, when “true knowledge will become abundant.” (Daniel 12 3,4,9,10.) That brings into question long-held dogmas. Like Hellfire.

Also in the “Last Days”, will the events of Isaiah 2:2-4 occur.
Let me quote from a Bible that uses God’s Name...

“2And it shall come to pass in the end of days, [that] the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow unto it.

3And many peoples shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and Jehovah's word from Jerusalem.

4And he shall judge among the nations, and shall reprove many peoples; and they shall forge their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-knives: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.”

Isaiah 2 DBT

Jehovah’s worshippers, pursue peace.

(FYI, That last part of the Scripture — vs.4 — is on the U.N. building. Not that it does much good.)


You said, “As I see it, God, in some way I do not understand, gave me senses to view the world and a brain to evaluate and conclude about that information. He clearly wanted me to think and draw my own conclusions and not disregard them or parrot some doctrine.”

Sounds similar to what Galileo Galilee said. (You’re in good company!)

I feel the same way...but I do it in the light of 1 John 5:19 and Revelation 12:9. I’m aware of who is really controlling and misleading this world.

Like I said in an earlier post to you, regarding the condition of the dead...yet it’s made to appear that they’re living. This occurs worldwide! That’s a lot of misleading going on!

What evidence are you using to demonstrate that ghosts are really demons? Can you share that so I can use it too. I think they could be visitors from a parallel dimension. If that can be tested and rejected, it would put that issue to rest. Are there properties of spirits that are different from the properties of demons or dimensional visitors?

I have never seen Satan. I have no idea if he exists. It could be made up, a metaphor for human evil or a scapegoat for human evil. What evidence has been used to identify him? That would make dealing with him much easier to know that he exists and really does run things on Earth.

 

[Bear Wild]

Hey! No self-respecting rabbit would ever.

I meant no offense to rabbits and hold them in the greatest of esteem. Reading the posts from "dad" however reminded me so much of Alice in Wonderland that I could not resist the reference to the rabbit hole. I will be more respectful to rabbits in the future.

The world according to "dad" is so full of bizarre creations that nonsense becomes real and real becomes nonsense. Any measurable fact clear evidence becomes twisted into something unreal. Now we have Noah landing pangea shortly after dinosaurs who evolved from created creatures became extinct the year before the arrival who evolving at lightening speed within 1600 years. Why not have disappearing cats (no offense to cats), play cards as people and all the rest of the characters in wonderland.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What do I do if enemy I love is about to kill a child I love?

You’d protect your family.
If you tried to kill my son, I’d try to stop you. (Hopefully I wouldn’t have to kill you...I’d just take out your kneecaps, lol.) But really, how many times would you or I be faced with such a situation?

That shooter in Walmart, awhile back...if my family was in there and being threatened — or even other innocents — I’d have tried to hide them from the trouble. If the only option was to confront him, I’d have tried to take him out if no law enforcement was around. But I wouldn’t be running into the trouble, though!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Some people will believe anything, as long as it agrees with their preconceived notions. I remember the days of the supermarket tabloids and how some people believed them using the line "if it wasn't true they couldn't print it". Meanwhile ignoring the real journalism in nearby papers that regularly refuted it. Hmmm, dad as a blue haired old lady. I can picture that.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I’m determining that you’re being facetious...but if not.....

I have never seen Satan. I have no idea if he exists. It could be made up, a metaphor for human evil or a scapegoat for human evil.

He spoke with Jehovah God, in Job 1&2. He tried to tempt Jesus, who like Adam was a perfect man. (Luke 4) He fought in heaven, with Michael, in Revelation 12:9.

Things that concepts can’t do. But a living entity can.

I wish you’d take the Bible more seriously.

Jesus did. As a Christian Methodist, you should appreciate that.

I think I’ll stick to presenting observable evidence that supports Scripture.

So....how do you think the world’s going? What’s your view on climate change?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You’d protect your family.
If you tried to kill my son, I’d try to stop you. (Hopefully I wouldn’t have to kill you...I’d just take out your kneecaps, lol.) But really, how many times would you or I be faced with such a situation?

That shooter in Walmart, awhile back...if my family was in there and being threatened — or even other innocents — I’d have tried to hide them from the trouble. If the only option was to confront him, I’d have tried to take him out if no law enforcement was around. But I wouldn’t be running into the trouble, though!

So there are limitations to this belief. Why does it stop where it does in your examples? Weren't the soldiers and sailors of WWII protecting us from the dangers of Hitler and Hirohito?

 

[dad]

Um...
That verse is asking who knows the mind of god and then rather pointedly says Jesus.

Looking at this commentary you stand corrected.

 

[dad]

So you have first hand knowledge with Paul to make that certain claim. How often to you talk to Paul? Daily?
If Jesus is the actual son of GOD and Mary then GOD must be male or be both male and female. So to your knowledge is god just male or is god part male and part female?

One can tell a lot from the writings they produce. We also know Paul was embraced by the early apostles which seals his authority of being from God, and that His testimony was true.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I’m determining that you’re being facetious...but if not.....

He spoke with Jehovah God, in Job 1&2. He tried to tempt Jesus, who like Adam was a perfect man. (Luke 4) He fought in heaven, with Michael, in Revelation 12:9.

Things that concepts can’t do. But a living entity can.

I wish you’d take the Bible more seriously.

Jesus did. As a Christian Methodist, you should appreciate that.

I think I’ll stick to presenting observable evidence that supports Scripture.

So....how do you think the world’s going? What’s your view on climate change?

I was not being facetious.

How do I know the depiction of Satan in the Bible is not just a metaphorical personification of human evil to teach a lesson? One would have to assume much not in evidence to accept the claims of the Bible as fact that can be used to sway others. I do not view Satan as an actual entity. What evidence outside of biblical claims should I use to test this?

What observable evidence supports scripture? Keeping in mind that observable support for some of it is not observable evidence for all of it? For example some of the people and places mentioned are known to have existed, but others are not.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I’m determining that you’re being facetious...but if not.....

He spoke with Jehovah God, in Job 1&2. He tried to tempt Jesus, who like Adam was a perfect man. (Luke 4) He fought in heaven, with Michael, in Revelation 12:9.

Things that concepts can’t do. But a living entity can.

I wish you’d take the Bible more seriously.

Jesus did. As a Christian Methodist, you should appreciate that.

I think I’ll stick to presenting observable evidence that supports Scripture.

So....how do you think the world’s going? What’s your view on climate change?

You wish I accepted the Bible as literal. There is no reason anyone has to. There are numerous, valid reasons not to. It is merely a belief to treat it as infallible. It is a false perception to claim this view as the Bible is useless or lying.

I accept the current science supporting climate change and the evidence that the current change is the result of human activity.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

If [demon presence] can be tested and rejected…

Is this what you meant?
If you’re speaking about “parallel universe” entities, I could still associate that with spirit life.
Interesting how many people conjecture regarding other dimensions....wonder where that comes from? Any scientific basis?

 

[dad]

Exactly how do you know what was created or not. If dinosaurs were not created where did they come from.

We don't know. However, since all kinds were on the ark, if they were a created kind, and on that ark then they would have lived after the flood also. That would not fit the evidence. Now I could speculate here if you like. Science tells us, I think, that there are dinos that were sort of related to lizards, and to birds. So, we know birds were created in creation week, days before man was created. If we assume lizards of some type were also created then we have the created kinds in place for the rapid evolving and adapting of that former nature to work. We could have seen, for example, some birds need to live in areas where food was better attained on foot. So they adapted and eventually after months or years or decades in that area presumably into little dinos.!? Ha. As time went by, months or years later they adapted into larger dinos. One thing I would think might warrant some looking into would be whether one of the key factors in whether an animal could leave remains was the degree to which it had evolved from the created kinds! Of course, we don't really know why. However, there seems to be a trend in the early fossil record that could suggest that this may be the case.
Anyhow, so there we have a way for all sorts of dinos to be here, yet none invited to the ark! Real science in heaven will be fun!

You get more creative with time but this line is truly astounding. "The time of the dinos would have ended about at least a year before this" Ok I cant help but ask how do you know the time of the dinosaurs was at least one year before this. Please explain this one!

That's an easy one, the flood lasted for a little over a year.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So there is obviously a missing link insofar as the development of humans go. The similarities, however, they find among biological structures do not verify the idea of evolution. The theory they are trying to fit evidence into is still simply that: a theory. They may say it is true, but that's only because they say it's true, not because it is true.

In other words you deny the evidence and keep your preconceived notions intact. Congrats! Why bother to discuss it at all?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Is this what you meant?
If you’re speaking about “parallel universe” entities, I could still associate that with spirit life.
Interesting how many people conjecture regarding other dimensions....wonder where that comes from? Any scientific basis?

You are claiming to know the difference. How? Is it just an interpretation of the Bible? Then how has that been verified?

 

[dad]

So some animals were created but others evolved, is that correct?

The only adapting or evolving that ever would have gone on is after creation! Not like some creatures got here by evolution alone in Eden. I think that it may have been possible to have so much rapid evolving going on in that former world, that many of the creatures that resulted would be considered different animals or species or whatever by science.

Therefore there must have been life on earth that evolved before god popped into the picture and created new creatures or that only some creatures had the ability to evolve. Please explain how you know this.

No, no-no. See above. All adaptation that could have happened could only have happened after the created kinds were here!

 

[dad]

Exactly how did you come up with 1600 years? This idea would be easy to test. The geologic record should show that birds or whatever animal the dinosaurs evolved from should be found in sedimentary layers below the dinosaurs.

The 1600 years was a rough estimation based on chronologies like that of Bishop Usher.

So my current guess (subject to evidence and adjusting if needed) is that the flood was somewhere around the time the KT layer was put down. Notice there was no dinos after?!

I also expect to find no people or most mammals before that time, because as mentioned, most could probably not leave remains at all in that former nature.