Evolution My ToE

[dad]

And within the second response, you're already denying it was every posted.

Excellent.

You could post a link to where you thought it was posted and I could then expose it as religion. Or keep pretending...whatever..

 

[dad]

The only reason you can post that nonsense is because millions upon millions of observations and tested predictions in the past made your device possible in the present.
Every time you turn that thing on, you assume the present is the same as the past, because it's the science (millions upon millions of data points, observations, tests, experiments, predictions, ...) of the past that is tested every single time you turn that thing on to come on here and deny it all.

Total baloney. Science doesn't cover what nature was like on earth in any of it's fishbowl data endeavours!

The technology in that device assumes that the physics of the past operate in the present.

No phone or computer actually has anything at all to do with Noah's day, and assumes nothing of the foolish sort!

You assuming you can reply to this post tomorrow with another idiotic remark, is you assuming that physics tomorrow will work like it works today, otherwise that device won't work. Nothing would work.

If God comes tomorrow, all bets are off.

 

[dad]

Your comments and beliefs are far-out for even a religious fundamentalist creationist.

• Continents zipped across the oceans. How could that have happened? It doesn't matter - what matters is that it proves science is wrong.

• I doubt it could without killing heat in this nature.

• The whole world was flooded 4000 years ago. Why is there no evidence that it happened? It doesn't matter - what matters is that it proves science is wrong.

Don't blame others that your religious ideas destroy any possibility of seeing what actually happened.

• 
  

  [*]Time and the speed of light changed from back then til now.

  No. The issue of time is in deep space, not earth, and we don't know what it is like out there right now! The speed of light is just the way light is clocked here in our area. How much time is involved is dependent on what time is like.

 

[dad]

It has been pointed out that you deny much of scripture. You're welcome.

??

 

[nPeace]

How? You remind me of that guy asking me hot to prove the Pythagorean theorem.

To that guy I advice to study basic math. To you, to study basic biology and come back to me when you have an education about the subject.

Ciao

- viole

I mean, ma'am.

 

[nPeace]

I guess I am. Can you help me understand?

I find it hard to imagine how you could not understand. Since I don't know what exactly you have a hard time understanding, perhaps you can tell me what you do understand.

 

[viole]

I mean, ma'am.

As you were.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Jose Fly]

I find it hard to imagine how you could not understand. Since I don't know what exactly you have a hard time understanding, perhaps you can tell me what you do understand.

You accused me of stalling, so since we were at the finish line anyways.....

Before the wolves showed up, the population of deer was made up of 60% individuals with parasite immunity, 20% with slight immunity, and 20% with no immunity (they are fully susceptible to the parasite). But once the wolves started preying on the deer and tending to kill the ones that had been weakened by the parasite, the composition of the deer population shifted to 80% individuals with parasite immunity, 15% with slight immunity, and 5% with no immunity.

So clearly, in terms of immunity to the parasite, the composition of the deer population has changed. What caused that change? It was the reemergence of wolves, who preyed more on deer that were susceptible to the parasite than deer that were immune to it.

Taking that back to the concept that we're covering (selection acting on variability in a population), the selective force in this scenario is the wolf predation. The variability in this scenario is the immunity to the parasite in the deer population, where some are completely immune, others are somewhat immune, and others are completely susceptible to the parasite. When the wolves began preying on the deer, they did so selectively, killing more of the deer that were fully susceptible to the parasite (because they're easier to kill). After a period of time, this selective predation caused the deer population to change to one with a higher percentage of deer with parasite immunity.

To recap...

Variability in the population = different levels of parasite immunity in the deer population

Natural selection = wolves preying more on deer without parasite immunity

Result = a change in the percentage of deer with parasite immunity

I hope that helps you understand how natural selection acts on variability.

 

[nPeace]

You accused me of stalling, so since we were at the finish line anyways.....

Before the wolves showed up, the population of deer was made up of 60% individuals with parasite immunity, 20% with slight immunity, and 20% with no immunity (they are fully susceptible to the parasite). But once the wolves started preying on the deer and tending to kill the ones that had been weakened by the parasite, the composition of the deer population shifted to 80% individuals with parasite immunity, 15% with slight immunity, and 5% with no immunity.

So clearly, in terms of immunity to the parasite, the composition of the deer population has changed. What caused that change? It was the reemergence of wolves, who preyed more on deer that were susceptible to the parasite than deer that were immune to it.

Taking that back to the concept that we're covering (selection acting on variability in a population), the selective force in this scenario is the wolf predation. The variability in this scenario is the immunity to the parasite in the deer population, where some are completely immune, others are somewhat immune, and others are completely susceptible to the parasite. When the wolves began preying on the deer, they did so selectively, killing more of the deer that were fully susceptible to the parasite (because they're easier to kill). After a period of time, this selective predation caused the deer population to change to one with a higher percentage of deer with parasite immunity.

To recap...

Variability in the population = different levels of parasite immunity in the deer population

Natural selection = wolves preying more on deer without parasite immunity

Result = a change in the percentage of deer with parasite immunity

I hope that helps you understand how natural selection acts on variability.

Thank you.
A question...
When you say, "After a period of time", roughly how long are you thinking of?

If you are thinking as I am guessing, a number of months, or years, then I am thinking that what you described as natural selection acting on variation in a population, then that is simply the case that natural selection has occurred - Natural selection = different levels of parasite immunity in the deer population + over a period of time immunity levels are passed on to offspring + over a period of time the weaker are being removed, and reproduce less often than the stronger which are increasing more.

Otherwise, natural selection has not occurred.
How you get natural selection to equal wolves preying more on deer without parasite immunity, is not lining up with what natural selection is understood to be.
Unless of course, you have included heredity in there, and enough time for the percentage difference.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You could post a link to where you thought it was posted

3 posts on and you've already move from implicit denial to explicit denial.

Delicious.

 

[ecco]

• I doubt it could without killing heat in this nature.

Don't blame others that your religious ideas destroy any possibility of seeing what actually happened.

• 
  No. The issue of time is in deep space, not earth, and we don't know what it is like out there right now! The speed of light is just the way light is clocked here in our area. How much time is involved is dependent on what time is like.

If ignorance is bliss, incoherent ignorance must by a continuous trip on a high grade drug.

The only thing you have to back up your assertions are stories that you yourself have admitted to making up.

The fairy tales of Dad vs the accumulated knowledge of mankind. Which is right and which is not worthy of the time it takes to throw it into a compost pile? Hmm.

 

[Jose Fly]

Thank you.

You're welcome!

A question...
When you say, "After a period of time", roughly how long are you thinking of?

I'd say 4-5 generations, which for most deer is about 8-10 years.

If you are thinking as I am guessing, a number of months, or years, then I am thinking that what you described as natural selection acting on variation in a population, then that is simply the case that natural selection has occurred - Natural selection = different levels of parasite immunity in the deer population + over a period of time immunity levels are passed on to offspring + over a period of time the weaker are being removed, and reproduce less often than the stronger which are increasing more.

Otherwise, natural selection has not occurred.

Yep, natural selection definitely occurred. As far as heredity, I was planning on introducing that into the scenario, but you seemed to be losing patience so I just skipped ahead.

How you get natural selection to equal wolves preying more on deer without parasite immunity, is not lining up with what natural selection is understood to be.
Unless of course, you have included heredity in there, and enough time for the percentage difference.

Actually, selection occurred whether the the immunity is hereditary or not. The wolves selected the weaker individuals and changed the composition of the population, regardless.

However, in order for the selection to be meaningful in the context of evolution, the trait under selective pressure (in our case, immunity) must be hereditary/genetic. Because at its most basic, evolution is a change in the genetics of a population over time.

 

[dad]

3 posts on and you've already move from implicit denial to explicit denial.

Delicious.

No idea what you are going on about. Poor excuse for posts though.

 

[dad]

If ignorance is bliss, incoherent ignorance must by a continuous trip on a high grade drug.

The only thing you have to back up your assertions are stories that you yourself have admitted to making up.

The fairy tales of Dad vs the accumulated knowledge of mankind. Which is right and which is not worthy of the time it takes to throw it into a compost pile? Hmm.

You cannot challenge the fact that what happens depends on the nature/forces/laws in place, and that you cannot prove what nature existed long ago on earth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You cannot challenge the fact that what happens depends on the nature/forces/laws in place, and that you cannot prove what nature existed long ago on earth.

You have that backwards as usual. None of the evidence indicates a change in the laws of nature. In fact the evidence supports that the laws have been the same since the Big Bang. You are trying to shift the burden of proof. You are the one that needs to prove a different state past. And you are going to need more than a book of myths.

 

[nPeace]

You're welcome!


I'd say 4-5 generations, which for most deer is about 8-10 years.


Yep, natural selection definitely occurred. As far as heredity, I was planning on introducing that into the scenario, but you seemed to be losing patience so I just skipped ahead.


Actually, selection occurred whether the the immunity is hereditary or not. The wolves selected the weaker individuals and changed the composition of the population, regardless.

However, in order for the selection to be meaningful in the context of evolution, the trait under selective pressure (in our case, immunity) must be hereditary/genetic. Because at its most basic, evolution is a change in the genetics of a population over time.

Well, isn't evolution what we are talking about?

 

[Jose Fly]

Well, isn't evolution what we are talking about?

Yep. So in that context, if immunity to the parasite is genetic (like antibiotic immunity and pesticide immunity), then the selective pressure from wolf predation has led to an evolutionary change in the deer population (an increase in the proportion of deer with parasite immunity).

So in sum, we have natural selection acting on variability in a population, leading to an evolutionary change.

I hope that cleared things up.

 

[nPeace]

Yep. So in that context, if immunity to the parasite is genetic (like antibiotic immunity and pesticide immunity), then the selective pressure from wolf predation has led to an evolutionary change in the deer population (an increase in the proportion of deer with parasite immunity).

So in sum, we have natural selection acting on variability in a population, leading to an evolutionary change.

I hope that cleared things up.

I think you explained how you understand "acting on". However, based on your earlier analogy, you would have to show me that variation in the population is not the same as variation that makes natural selection possible.
You have not done that, as far as I can tell. So until you can, I can only see it as natural selection happened, or has occurred.

 

[dad]

None of the evidence indicates a change in the laws of nature.

Or not...so? Science doesn't know, Scripture and history weigh in with me. How sweet it is.

In fact the evidence supports that the laws have been the same since the Big Bang.

Except that is baloney. That is why you just proclaim it rather than post substance.

 

[Jose Fly]

I think you explained how you understand "acting on".

Good!

However, based on your earlier analogy, you would have to show me that variation in the population is not the same as variation that makes natural selection possible.

It is the same. Variation in populations exists....it just is....it's reality.

Natural selection depends on that variation, because if there were no variation there would be nothing to select for or against (the wolves would just prey on all the deer equally and the population wouldn't change). Natural selection also acts on that variation (wolves selecting deer without immunity) to produce changes in the population (increase in the proportion of deer with immunity).