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Evolution of what?

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
For an animal to learn something, it needs a human to teach it.

Gen. 1:27 And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

Who taught pre-human apes to count? :rolleyes:
They were not taught to count. They were given a situation where they had to count or understand greater and lesser than relationships in order to get a reward. And they did the math successfully and consistently showing they can do the math.
Evolutionary processes have already given many animals the ability to do multiple numerical analysis in their heads to solve their day to day problems..we are not special that way.

Also please answer my question. When, according to you humans appeared?
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
...
Also please answer my question. When, according to you humans appeared?
The Bible contains a detailed genealogy that goes back to the first created man: Adam. Performing the relevant calculations, it is discovered that Adam was created in the year 4025/4 BC. That's about 6 millennia ago.

Knowing that the Sumerian civilization is the first known human civilization and that its existence dates back to after the creation of Adam, it is not difficult to deduce that the evidence shows that the Bible is right about when humans were created.

My topic asks evolutionists for proof that apes have developed intellect. So far they have presented no real evidence that this has happened. A modern human experiment is not proof of an actual past event.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The Bible contains a detailed genealogy that goes back to the first created man: Adam. Performing the relevant calculations, it is discovered that Adam was created in the year 4025/4 BC. That's about 6 millennia ago.

Knowing that the Sumerian civilization is the first known human civilization and that its existence dates back to after the creation of Adam, it is not difficult to deduce that the evidence shows that the Bible is right about when humans were created.

My topic asks evolutionists for proof that apes have developed intellect. So far they have presented no real evidence that this has happened. A modern human experiment is not proof of an actual past event.
What about piles of evidence of human settlements before 4000 BCE
A modern experiment showing monkeys know how to do math is evidence that monkeys can do math. What is so difficult to understand here?
Are you saying that if we do an experiment where a monkey eats a banana is not evidence that monkeys eat banana....:|
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
What about piles of evidence of human settlements before 4000 BCE
This is what the Bible says about the first human settlements:

Gen. 4:14 "Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your face; and I will become a wanderer and a fugitive on the earth, and anyone who finds me will certainly kill me.” 15 So Jehovah said to him: “For that reason, anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times.”
So Jehovah set up a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him would strike him. 16 Then Cain went away from before Jehovah and took up residence in the land of Exile, to the east of Eʹden.
17 Afterward Cain had sexual relations with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Eʹnoch. Then he engaged in building a city and named the city after his son Eʹnoch. 18 Later Iʹrad was born to Eʹnoch. And Iʹrad became father to Me·huʹja·el, and Me·huʹja·el became father to Me·thuʹsha·el, and Me·thuʹsha·el became father to Laʹmech.
19 Laʹmech took two wives for himself. The name of the first was Aʹdah, and the name of the second was Zilʹlah. 20 Aʹdah gave birth to Jaʹbal. He was the founder of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Juʹbal. He was the founder of all those who play the harp and the pipe. 22 Also, Zilʹlah gave birth to Tuʹbal-cain, who forged every sort of tool of copper and iron. And the sister of Tuʹbal-cain was Naʹa·mah.

So, yes, there were human settlements as soon as the first son of the first human killed his brother.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
This is what the Bible says about the first human settlements:

Gen. 4:14 "Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your face; and I will become a wanderer and a fugitive on the earth, and anyone who finds me will certainly kill me.” 15 So Jehovah said to him: “For that reason, anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times.”
So Jehovah set up a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him would strike him. 16 Then Cain went away from before Jehovah and took up residence in the land of Exile, to the east of Eʹden.
17 Afterward Cain had sexual relations with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Eʹnoch. Then he engaged in building a city and named the city after his son Eʹnoch. 18 Later Iʹrad was born to Eʹnoch. And Iʹrad became father to Me·huʹja·el, and Me·huʹja·el became father to Me·thuʹsha·el, and Me·thuʹsha·el became father to Laʹmech.
19 Laʹmech took two wives for himself. The name of the first was Aʹdah, and the name of the second was Zilʹlah. 20 Aʹdah gave birth to Jaʹbal. He was the founder of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Juʹbal. He was the founder of all those who play the harp and the pipe. 22 Also, Zilʹlah gave birth to Tuʹbal-cain, who forged every sort of tool of copper and iron. And the sister of Tuʹbal-cain was Naʹa·mah.

So, yes, there were human settlements as soon as the first son of the first human killed his brother.
I asked when were humans created? Please answer that question. Thanks.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
That is what the theory of evolution is made of: speculations.
No, it's based on a combination of observation and well-substantiated explanations of those observations. For example, how we observe civilisations and knowledge developing slowly over time, so it stands to reason that these things do develop slowly over time.

Science is not a brainstorm.
I agree?

What a ridiculous comparison: a baby is not a civilization.
What comparison? It's an observation. A baby is not born intelligent. That proves your assumption - that humans are born with innate intelligence - is false. What we are born with is the capacity to learn, which makes it all the more reasonable to conclude that this learning, over time, lead to the first civilisations. It did not happen spontaneously, and not a shred of evidence exists to suggest it did.

Allow me to ask you a question: When you step out of your front door, what do you expect to happen?
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
That is what the theory of evolution is made of: speculations.
From a ancient religious agenda that selectively rejects science to justify your worldview. You need a lesson in English for the proper definition of "speculation." Many religious beliefs based on the miraculous and supernatural are based on "speculation."
Science is not a brainstorm.
True, but not in the way of your intended sarcasm.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Evolutionists pretend to be very skeptics when there's no evidence... but it seems that not so much, when it is not convenient for them.

If they supposedly find links between species much older than "homo sapiens", how difficult should it be for them to find apes that know how to count or speak or plant crops or domesticate animals, etc.? :)

Classic intentional ignorance of the sciences of evolution when it does not fit your ancient tribal agenda.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Another example: the development of spoken language.

There are currently thousands of spoken languages. In the time of Sumeria there were already several of them, not just one. But that's not all: translations were already made from one language to another. Imagine what progress for that time.

However, evolutionists have no idea how human language achieved such development. At least they should try to make the apes that exist talk and then let their imagination run wild, as they always do when they have no evidence of something.
All other primates just don't have the anatomy to talk like humans, even if some can make some of the sounds we make.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Ok.

Have a good one. :)
So you can't answer my question on when you believe humans were created? It can't be 4000 BC, as lots of settlements existed before then. So when was it?
I find it interesting that you can't really say why you think a clear cut experiment showing monkeys have inbuilt ability to do math, without anyone teaching them is not evidence that monkeys can do math???
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The Bible contains a detailed genealogy that goes back to the first created man: Adam. Performing the relevant calculations, it is discovered that Adam was created in the year 4025/4 BC. That's about 6 millennia ago.
Do you realize the inaccuracies of the genealogy, the total inaccurracy of the historical record of the Pentateuch, and the fact the Pentateuch was compiled after 600 BCE without any prior history of text?
Knowing that the Sumerian civilization is the first known human civilization and that its existence dates back to after the creation of Adam, it is not difficult to deduce that the evidence shows that the Bible is right about when humans were created.

My topic asks evolutionists for proof that apes have developed intellect. So far they have presented no real evidence that this has happened. A modern human experiment is not proof of an actual past event.

There is no proof in science. Your intentional ignorance of basic science is a witness to your clinging to an ancient tribal religous beliefs with absolutely no independent scientific or historical evidence to support your agenda.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
the intellect belongs exclusively to humans, and therefore, they were originally created with that capacity.
Or, they are the only species to have evolved to the point of possessing intellect. You have yet to provide evidence that man or anything else before the evolution of intelligence was created by a conscious agent, and we already have a good answer for how the universe, life, mind, and man came to be as we find them, one founded in evidence.
show evidence of yours since there's no apes developing intellect at any point of time.
I've already falsified that. Humans, who are apes, developed intellect. If you mean non-human apes, there's no disagreement there.

And I still don't see why you think this point supports creationism. It's consistent with naturalistic evolution, which is a better hypothesis being both more parsimonious and much better evidenced.
For an animal to learn something, it needs a human to teach it.
Nope. We've taught our dogs to do their business outdoors and to use the dog door to get there, but everything else they know that isn't instinctual they learned from observing patterns, inducing relationships, and deducing what will follow when they see or hear certain things.
Knowing that the Sumerian civilization is the first known human civilization and that its existence dates back to after the creation of Adam, it is not difficult to deduce that the evidence shows that the Bible is right about when humans were created.
Your reasoning is fallacious. I've already explained that. Genesis is mythology, not history. Adam is a fictional character. No conclusion that follows from erroneous and unshared premises can be sound.
My topic asks evolutionists for proof that apes have developed intellect. So far they have presented no real evidence that this has happened.
I've given you that evidence myself. Have you forgotten already? I posted on the evolution of numbers and English as well as listing intelligent accomplishments of mankind predating civilization by millennia.

Basically, you're complaining that nobody will give you evidence that you have already ignored and arguing that scripture and biblical genealogies are evidence of divine creation when you have been shown that they are not.

I notice you chose to not answer my question about what motivates you to come to mixed forum and argue creationism with arguments that have no chance of persuading critical thinkers. I have already speculated on why you do that, and you offered no counterargument or denial, so I'm assuming that I'm probably correct that you are trying to please your god by martyring yourself promoting your religion.

That would also explain why you won't answer. You can't tell the truth and you can't lie if you think your god, who you believe is privy to these discussions, would disapprove of both. You think you can't say that you are doing this to be contradicted and rejected to earn favor, which is the likely reason, and you think that you can't lie about what your reason is. You don't know how to answer, so you don't.

And it would also explain why not one creationist out of a dozen or more that I have asked this question will acknowledge seeing it much less answer it. Isn't lying for Jesus OK in Christianity? Go ahead and tell the lie that you are here to teach the skeptics and bring them to Jesus. I say lie because you know that you can't do that, and that all that you accomplish is to further confirm with yet another example that creationism is false and these skeptics are justified in rejecting your beliefs, which would be the opposite of a claim of trying to teach or help others. None of you believe that you are doing that if none of you will say those words.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
My topic asks evolutionists for proof that apes have developed intellect. So far they have presented no real evidence that this has happened. A modern human experiment is not proof of an actual past event.
Perhaps replace intellect by intelligence and then we might be able to compare, given that non-human primates and many other species show evidence of intelligence, and of using such apparently in solving problems - and not just by any hit-and-miss method. It's quite understandable that no other species apparently hasn't the intellect of humans given that none that we know of have developed symbolic language - but we will have to await our deciphering the communication of some species to be sure of this. But then we at some stage didn't have such either - even if your condensed timescale precludes this happening and has to rely on an old religious text to make everything fit.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
This is what the Bible says about the first human settlements:

Gen. 4:14 "Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your face; and I will become a wanderer and a fugitive on the earth, and anyone who finds me will certainly kill me.” 15 So Jehovah said to him: “For that reason, anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times.”
So Jehovah set up a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him would strike him. 16 Then Cain went away from before Jehovah and took up residence in the land of Exile, to the east of Eʹden.
17 Afterward Cain had sexual relations with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Eʹnoch. Then he engaged in building a city and named the city after his son Eʹnoch. 18 Later Iʹrad was born to Eʹnoch. And Iʹrad became father to Me·huʹja·el, and Me·huʹja·el became father to Me·thuʹsha·el, and Me·thuʹsha·el became father to Laʹmech.
19 Laʹmech took two wives for himself. The name of the first was Aʹdah, and the name of the second was Zilʹlah. 20 Aʹdah gave birth to Jaʹbal. He was the founder of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Juʹbal. He was the founder of all those who play the harp and the pipe. 22 Also, Zilʹlah gave birth to Tuʹbal-cain, who forged every sort of tool of copper and iron. And the sister of Tuʹbal-cain was Naʹa·mah.

So, yes, there were human settlements as soon as the first son of the first human killed his brother.
Nothing here is based on independent historical or archaeological evidence,
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Where did you get that from? Animals can learn in all sorts of ways. Many of them can learn on their own. Have you even had a pet?
Nobody is teaching squirrels to overcome efforts to keep them off of birdfeeders. They do pretty well on their own and seem to pass that info along to other squirrels too.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Nobody is teaching squirrels to overcome efforts to keep them off of birdfeeders. They do pretty well on their own and seem to pass that info along to other squirrels too.

Rabbits keep digging under my fence and eating my vegetables. You don't happen to know anything about that do you rodent?
 
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