Reading about Krakatoa will give some insight into the causes and results of Continental Drift.
Krakatoa, like all volcanoes, are a product of Continental Drift.
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Evolution of what?
- Thread starter Eli G
- Start date
Krakatoa, like all volcanoes, are a product of Continental Drift.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
It also shows that vegetation and life forms grew rather quickly after the disasters. Another thing it shows is that there were little records of one of the big blasts.
Also shows?!?!?! Volcanoes are part of the subduction zones and hot spots with histories of millions of years of geologic activity.
Yes, but so what?!?!?
Huh!?!?! Nonsense.
In the layers of deposits around the large volcanoes there is evidence of eruptions for over tens of thousands of years.
In Continental Drift the volcanoes occur the subduction zones and hot spots.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes there were reports I'll go over this later. Thanks.
ChieftheCef
Active Member
Fair enough. I just dint think it would remotely be in India. That's not even near where civilization started. There are gods older than Hinduism. Older than Suneria even
ChieftheCef
Active Member
Keep up the good fight. Thanks for helping to save me from potential genocide
Bharat Jhunjhunwala
TruthPrevails
Let us not play with words and let us understand the crux. I agree that Joseph Campbell did not consider myths to be real history, but he also says that they are not pure falsehood. So, there is a kernel of history which then develops into the so-called myth. Our ability lies in retrieving that kernel of history which is embedded in the history.
I agreed that existence of Mount Ararat does not justify the Noah and the world flood story but we have a mount Aravalli in the Indus Valley which does justify Noah's flood because we have a bonelike structure in Jalore where such a local flood of long duration could have taken place.
I think you are jumping the gun. Please see the attached paper on the relationship of on the location of Eden in the Indus Valley.
You are the one playing with words, because you consider the Pentateuch actual history including actual real Garden of Eden location, and Joseph Campbell did not even hint any such historical reality of ancient myths as history. Being kernels of history or embedded in history des not remotely translate as actual history as you claim. As with Joseph Campbell I fully acknowledge the relationship between mythology and history.
By the way there are a number of mountains with dry or semi-dry ancient wadis in four directions that in the ancient past were verdant plentiful plains with even ancient cities before climate changes made the deserts today.
IT is mythology and no such flood described in the Bible took place, It is based on the Sumerian Tigris Euphrates flood that is documented geologically. The story was handed down as an oral legend first that written, and the Pentateuch account is based on the Sumerian and Babylonian accounts of the thread, This what Joseph Campbell described as how myth is based on historical events.
I say the paper and it is unbelievably false, The account of the journey in the Pentateuch described actual documented trade locations in the Sinai.
It remains factual the specific genetic relationship between Canaanite/Hebrews and Egyptians as Semitic people goes back over 3000 years, The archeological evidence documents Canaanite/Hebrew continuous culture, language and religion over 3000 years. No such relationship documented relationship with the Indus Valley.
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Your version would make a grade D sci-fi movie.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Darwin's concept of natural selection is connected to the pressures and needs of the changing physical environment. When the Sahara Desert changed to desert, life there had to adapt, migrate, until what was chosen could handle the new conditions. It is the modern genetic centric approach that does not allow an integrated earth model, since natural selection is not exclusively, genetic. The brain and consciousness, via migration can game local natural selection criteria, by walking to where it can be selected. There are mass seasonal migrations that still work.
Water is a much better base variable, since water is the main basis for climate and water can even erode mountains. The earth surface is covered by water. Water can also be found from the atmosphere all the way to the earth's core. It plays a role in plate tectonics. It is also the main component of life. Water is the bridge between all including the earth, life, the brain and consciousness. A fully integrated model is easier to do with water.
The Life Sciences; like evolution, are sort of stuck at observational empiricism due to too much reliance on the black box of statistics. This type of empirical science, although useful, is similar to using a cell phone, while staying at the level of the GUT; Graphic User Tech. We look at the screen and through touch, voice and links we can do what appeared to be endless tasks. We can use a single program like Microsoft Word, and do what appears to be endless word, grammar, poster, etc. projects, on just that one app. Evolution and DNA is like one app of GUT science.
There is no need to go deeper into the hardware and software to see how that works. The black box takes care of that. The warranty is voided if you open your cell phone to look inside. Only certified techs can do that and not avoid the warranty. We can have a lifetime of fun staying just at the GUT. Social media alone can entertain you day after day for hours each day. We can even learn hacks to get new and hidden capabilities all from the GUT. That is empirical science.
If we were to leave the black box of GUT, and open the cell phone; lose the black box warranty, to look at the hardware and software, it is all based on logic and is not as random as the GUT based endless applications seem to imply. The program code is highly regimented with anything out of logic causing a bug. You could not use a randomizer on the bytes of code and expect anything but bugs or worse. The hardware is assembled based on logic; get the most out of the space while adding efficiency, capability, cooling, and battery life.
But from the GUT of empirical science, like Evolution, they ignore any logic behind what appears to be randomness in evolution. There are plenty of organic centric games to play, so nobody gets bored and tires. There is no need to open the device to void the warranty and see what is behind the GUT.
Anyone who just get a new phone or updates the operating system, will have to do some empirical science via trial and error until a sense or order appears; empirical approach. You push the buttons and links and make note what it does, while not needing to understand the code or hardware configurations. I would like to see the Life Science get beyond the GUT of nature and figure out its internal logic. The golden age of science ended in the 1920's when the GUT approach became used. It was the advancement of engineering; better tools for the GUT, that made the GUT approach seem like progress. It was not better logic and better theory. Having two or three monitors; GUT tools, does allow more options and can look impressive but it still require you stay in the black box of GUT trial and error until things correlate.
Bharat Jhunjhunwala
TruthPrevails
I never said that Campbell said that the Garden of Eden was located at a certain place. All I am saying is that Campbell does say that behind the mythology, there is a kernel of truth. In this case, my understanding is that Garden of Eden was located at a mountain from which four rivers flow in four directions. I do not know of any other place on the earth other than Pushkar where such a situation is obtained. Possibly it is. I will be happy to know if it is so.
It seems we have not taken the trouble to read the paper that I sent. It is published in a respectable journal and I think we would have a much better discussion after you have read the paper.
ChieftheCef
Active Member
What do you mean?
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You are still misrepresenting Joseph Campbell, because he does not remotely support anything close to you considering the mythology of the Pentateuch as representing actual history. A kernel of truth is a kernel of truth and does not make mythology history. This is called "name dropping" to give credibility that actually does not support your argument. Joseph Campbell does not consider mythology history Every historian and anthropologist will acknowledge that mythology is set in history and may contain kernels of truth.
The Garden of Eden is mythology. Your understanding does not help it. Your geographic association are not unique to the Indus Valley and remotely circumstantial. As previously stated that there are mountains in Saudi Arabia with ancient rivers flowing in four directions when the climate very wet and the vegetation was abundant in the past. There are even ancient villages.
I have read the paper.
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No.
This remains mythology and not history. At one time the Middle East and Northern Africa was a verdant abundant world with prairies, tropical forests, lakes, rivers, As their world dried out they lost paradise, and moved to the river valleys.
Huh?!?!?!
gnostic
The Lost One
Myths often comes in two forms:
- As cultural narratives, like epic poems, or scriptural narratives.
- Or as some sorts of devotional lyrics, like hymns. Devotions to deities or to demigods.
The thing with mythological narratives, they are often written with appearances or resemblance of being “history-like”, sometimes including names of places that are geographically real, hence the kernel of truth, but a large parts of the narrative is more myths than history.
Like in the creation of the Garden of Eden, it mentioned Euphrates & Tigris, are 2 geographical rivers located in most Iraq, but also in the Armenian Highlands that are part of modern Turkey. Just because Genesis 2 can named 2 actual rivers (2 kernels of truth), don’t make the rest of story - creations of Adam & of Eve, the creation of man before creation of plants before the creation of animals (which contradicted the order of timeline of creation in Genesis 1), the fruits from trees that can give knowledge or give eternal life, the talking serpent, and the angel with sword of fire, etc, don’t make this myth as history or fact.
Homer could name many of the cities that existed in his time, in the Iliad and Odyssey, but it doesn’t make the Trojan War any more historical than the myth of Adam and Eve or the Garden of Eden.
Many authors writing modern fictions often set the scenes of their narratives in real places, but these don’t make these novels as nonfiction and historic.
Having kernel or some kernels of truth, don’t turn myth into history.
And there lies the heart of the problem. Some believers of religious texts often fall for these traps, confusing myths with history, because of there have been some sorts of kernels behind the narratives, justifying their beliefs.
GoodAttention
Active Member
Since you insist on defending your paper which I took the time to read, I will insist on questioning it.
I hope you will show me the same respect and respond in kind.
Ezekiel 28:13 - You were in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Ezekiel 28:14 - You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.
Where does it say Eden was a mountain? Are you interpreting the "You" described to be Eden??
Alternative to Ezekiel 28? It is describing a person, or perhaps a metaphor for Cain, but I also don't know I can only speculate. However I would disagree the wording suggests it is describing Eden.
What is the true source of any river? It is rain. It is the water cycle. This is your kernal of truth.
The garden of Eden isn't a physical point from which the rivers must start from.
It is the point from which water rises to become clouds, and then rain to fall upon mountains that then become rivers.
If the rivers "don't work" either the rivers are wrong, or the idea that they have to originate as rivers from one physical point is wrong.
The descriptions for the Gihon to be the Indus (Singhi Kamban) and Pishon to be the Nile (Wadi Hammamat as Land of Havilah) are, in my opinion, correct without reasonable alternative.
Hence, see above why they do work.
The location, if it existed at all, is under the Persian Gulf waters.
Which is to say, any "physical property" of the Garden of Eden relates to the water cycle, but any "physical location" doesn't exist because there is no physical point from which the rivers must rise from.
The water cycle continues with the evaporation of sea water.
ChieftheCef
Active Member
Imaginative? If Trump gets elected we'll gradually start to fall back into genocide and raping your warfare winnings. How smart are you if you study the Bible but can't pick up on so much?
Bharat Jhunjhunwala
TruthPrevails
I think we are not disagreeing but somehow, we are contesting the words. All I'm saying is that the Pentateuch cannot be rubbished simply because it has been transmitted over so many thousand years. It's an inspired text and we should assume it is correct unless proven otherwise. All I am saying is that the descriptions of Garden of Eden match with Indus Valley and Since you said you have read the paper, I would very much like you to rebut it, or at least give your basic arguments against the paper. I would be thankful for the same.