I may have mentioned this before but I don't remember. The Urantia Book should be right up your alley. The Urantia Book | Urantia Book | Urantia Foundation
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Evolution vs Intelligent design/creationism
- Thread starter Stevex27
- Start date
I've heard of Urantia but don't remember much about it. What are your thoughts on it?
My bread and butter are non-dual (God and creation are not-two) Advaita Hinduism and much of the works of theosophical masters.
Science says that we are here because of evolution and natural selection. Evolution and natural selection gave us instincts like the survival/self-preservation instinct and the instinct to procreate. So the purpose of and what gives meaning to life is working to increase chances of survival and successful production and raising of offspring. Which is why we have for example doctors and surgeons.
I am in the process of reading it. So far it seems a lot more detailed and much more rational than most of the books I have read on mysticism etc.
What is the purpose of surviving? People ask deeper questions.
scott777
Member
Well, I might not see it, but at least a more respectable type of belief than most religions.
proudpagan
Member
If the theory of natural selection of Darwin is correct, why can't we see the intermediate forms of species, the connecting links?" Darwin did not have the answer nor the archeological evidence to back it up. Although there is ample evidence for many species, fossil records provide almost no evidence for the intermediate connecting links. Later, scientists revised Darwin's theory with their "Punctuated Equilibrium" evolutionary theory, supposedly making evolution invisible in the fossil record. Yet this theory is not verifiable in any way and is highly speculative.
scott777
Member
First of all, I’m sure there are lots of such links, but let’s say they are rare.
Because a tree of life has many many branches, and most branches stop (become extinct). Also, 99.9999% of animals DO NOT fossilise. Fossilisation is basically random. So if you pick some random points on the tree (my red points – fossils), in order to show a link to the current living animals (blue points), they need to be on the same branch.
The real tree of life would have millions of branches, only a small fraction of which have survived.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
We have thousands of transitional fossils:
List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia
Darwin died almost 150 years ago. He had no idea of the evidence we would uncover in the intervening time or just how his theory fit with the archaeological evidence we since discovered.
See above.
I don't know where you're copying and pasting this nonsense from, but punctuated equilibrium says no such thing and evolution is absolutely visible in the fossil record. All punctuated equilibrium explains is why evolutionary change can accumulate at differing rates.
That's a meaningless question. Like asking the purpose of the moon. The moon doesn't exist and was placed where it is for a specific purpose any more than we have a specific purpose for surviving. It's just how we evolved. A side effect of how we evolved though is that we evolved a big brain capable of asking questions like "What is the purpose of surviving" when there isn't any particular purpose to our survival.
Imagine that you can see time going backward. First you look at yourself and see yourself getting younger and younger and finally go back into your mother. Then you follow your mother the same way. Evolutionists say you can follow your ancestry all the way back to the first cell. Every organism is an intermediate organism. You are. Your mother was. Her mother was. So what if we don't have or can possibly find remains of representatives of every single generation or that some changes are quick and some changes are slow to accumulate?
Since the name of the thread is "Evolution vs Intelligent design/creationism" here is a simple way of illustrating the difference.
Evolutionists say
1. You came from your mother.
2. She came from her mother.
3. She came from her mother.
4. She came from her mother.
5. She came from her mother.
6. She came from her mother.
7. She came from her mother.
8. She came from her mother.
9. She came from her mother.
10. She came from her mother.
11. All the way down to the first cell.
Creationists say
1. You came from your mother.
2. She came from her mother.
3. She came from her mother.
4. She came from her mother.
5. She came from her mother.
6. She came from her mother.
7. She came from her mother.
8. She came from her mother.
9. She came from her mother.
10. She came from her mother.
11. She was designed and created by a god.
What do you think is the most likely scenario?
Evolutionists say
1. You came from your mother.
2. She came from her mother.
3. She came from her mother.
4. She came from her mother.
5. She came from her mother.
6. She came from her mother.
7. She came from her mother.
8. She came from her mother.
9. She came from her mother.
10. She came from her mother.
11. All the way down to the first cell.
Creationists say
1. You came from your mother.
2. She came from her mother.
3. She came from her mother.
4. She came from her mother.
5. She came from her mother.
6. She came from her mother.
7. She came from her mother.
8. She came from her mother.
9. She came from her mother.
10. She came from her mother.
11. She was designed and created by a god.
What do you think is the most likely scenario?
proudpagan
Member
The fossil record contains fossils of only complete and fully-formed species. There are no fossils of partially-evolved species to indicate that a gradual process of evolution ever occurred. Even among evolutionists there are diametrically different interpretations and reconstructions of the fossils used to support human evolution from a supposed ape-like ancestry.
Even if evolution takes millions and millions of years, we should still be able to see some stages of its process. But, we simply don't observe any partially-evolved fish, frogs, lizards, birds, dogs, cats among us. Every species of plant and animal is complete and fully-formed.
> Would uncover .
Btw just to be clear, evolution theory puts no limit on what mutation/natural selection can invent, saying that everything in nature was invented by it - everything:
sex, eye-hand coordination, balance, navigation systems, tongues, blood, antennae, waste removal systems, swallowing, joints, lubrication, pumps, valves, autofocus, image stabilization, sensors, camouflage, traps, ceramic teeth, light (bioluminescence), ears, tears, eyes, hands, fingernails, cartilage, bones, spinal columns, spinal cords, muscles, ligaments, tendons, livers, kidneys, thyroid glands, lungs, stomachs, vocal cords, saliva, skin, fat, lymph, body plans, growth from egg to adult, nurturing babies, aging, breathing, s,receptors for proteins on cells, apoptosis, hormones,etc. This is topkek .
> seen
Rofl !!! Dude Punctuated Equilibrium says that plant and animal species evolved suddenly from one kind to another and that is why we don't see evidence of partially-evolved species in the fossil record. But I already stated its flawed af because the invention of new parts or systems by mutation has never been witnessed, nor has it been accomplished in a biochemistry laboratory.
proudpagan
Member
That is one of many reasons a lot of intellectuals dont buy evolution theory .
proudpagan
Member
Ask an evolutionist where is the seat of emotion . Where is mind . What is the source of your emotion ? Why do we demonstrate the characteristics of happiness, sorrow, attraction, repulsion, efforts, intellect etc ?
I agree that different parts of brain enable these functions. But who is the source?
proudpagan
Member
So why buy theory of evolution ? It needs some hardcore refining tbh
There are thousands of intermediate fossils exactly as predicted by evolution. Do you want examples?
Here is one. A bird dinosaur intermediate form called microraptor
We demonstrate those characteristics because we evolved a big brain.
The brain is the source. Destroy your brain and then see if you can be happy or sad or still has an intellect. You didn't actually answer the question. Here is the original post again.
Evolutionists say
1. You came from your mother.
2. She came from her mother.
3. She came from her mother.
4. She came from her mother.
5. She came from her mother.
6. She came from her mother.
7. She came from her mother.
8. She came from her mother.
9. She came from her mother.
10. She came from her mother.
11. All the way down to the first cell.
Creationists say
1. You came from your mother.
2. She came from her mother.
3. She came from her mother.
4. She came from her mother.
5. She came from her mother.
6. She came from her mother.
7. She came from her mother.
8. She came from her mother.
9. She came from her mother.
10. She came from her mother.
11. She was designed and created by a god.
What do you think is the most likely scenario?
I see what you are saying. If we had the remains of every single ancestor of yours, every single generation, all the way down to the first cell, they could all have been individually made by a god, otherwise you would believe in evolution. But since we don't have every generation of all your ancestors you think it's logical to assume that some of them were actually designed and created by a god.
I should have worded my question more thoroughly like; What is the purpose of surviving (if there is one)? I agree that there does not have to be a purpose; however I have come to believe there is an intelligence behind all this so I believe there indeed is a purpose.