>3> i dont know if anyone has said this but evalution is caused by the sun... the lil rays of light the get through the Ozone come down and hit a living thing. the rays go and hit a single spot on this living thing and changes it. this change is not always good, for example Cancer. if evalution is fake where did all life come from? >.> wh8 god came down and molded Adam from the ground (Somthing like that) and etc, Really? is that any more realistic?
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EVOLUTION, what a lie.
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
Beautiful city!fantôme profane;1608259 said:
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I hate feeling judged everytime I look up into the sky.
Sure -- if you overlook the infestation of Tiktaaliks...
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Here's another one down in Georgia: Georgiaticus:
I guess what I want to explain, eselam, it's that it's not a single fossil, and not a single species. It's many fossils of many different species, each one somewhere on the gradual progression from land mammal to whale.
We have series like this for many different creatures, such as the giraffe, horse, dog, etc. YOu can put them in order and see the gradual changes from one to another. Of course, that takes time and work. The people who do that work are called paleontologists.
I guess what I want to explain, eselam, it's that it's not a single fossil, and not a single species. It's many fossils of many different species, each one somewhere on the gradual progression from land mammal to whale.
We have series like this for many different creatures, such as the giraffe, horse, dog, etc. YOu can put them in order and see the gradual changes from one to another. Of course, that takes time and work. The people who do that work are called paleontologists.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Eselam,
Apparently you didn't see my post to you. It also looks like we're not online at the same time very often (you're posting in my middle of the night), but that shouldn't prevent us from interacting.
To re-post....
Even though you've already been provided several examples of "transitional fossils", I think a little background might be necessary before we dive too deep into the data.
First, understand that if you are truly interested in examining specific fossil series, you're going to have to do some work. By that, I mean you're going to have to read a lot and understand some basic terminology. Paleontology is a very technical field of science, with its own jargon and such. In order to get a grasp of even the basics, you need to familiarize yourself with some of it. Of course if you're not really interested and instead are just trying to "stump the evolutionists" then you should be honest and tell us now and avoid a lot of wasted time.
Also, I've found that before we get into specific fossil specimens, it's a good idea to have a mutual understanding of what we're talking about when we say "transitional fossil". If we don't, we end up going in circles. You mentioned the transition from reptiles to birds, so we'll start there. Would you agree that if birds descended from reptiles, then we should find fossil specimens that show a mixture of reptilian and avian (bird) traits?
That should be a good enough start.
Apparently you didn't see my post to you. It also looks like we're not online at the same time very often (you're posting in my middle of the night), but that shouldn't prevent us from interacting.
To re-post....
Even though you've already been provided several examples of "transitional fossils", I think a little background might be necessary before we dive too deep into the data.
First, understand that if you are truly interested in examining specific fossil series, you're going to have to do some work. By that, I mean you're going to have to read a lot and understand some basic terminology. Paleontology is a very technical field of science, with its own jargon and such. In order to get a grasp of even the basics, you need to familiarize yourself with some of it. Of course if you're not really interested and instead are just trying to "stump the evolutionists" then you should be honest and tell us now and avoid a lot of wasted time.
Also, I've found that before we get into specific fossil specimens, it's a good idea to have a mutual understanding of what we're talking about when we say "transitional fossil". If we don't, we end up going in circles. You mentioned the transition from reptiles to birds, so we'll start there. Would you agree that if birds descended from reptiles, then we should find fossil specimens that show a mixture of reptilian and avian (bird) traits?
That should be a good enough start.
Ghostaka
Active Member
Are you a paleontologist? Because it seems you are doing just fine criticizing the consensus of Muslims (at least in RF).
What is it that you think we "come up" with in short notice? We're basically using common sense (developed by going to UK/US curricular schools
) and what Allah has to say and yet you have had a tough time "proving" to the contrary. Then you simply attempt to insult us my dropping derogatory remarks about ignorance and what not... What does that make you look like? :sarcastic p.s. isn't it anyone's right to get a second opinion?
I joke, but you get what I mean right? I think you meant we're trying to "poke holes in ToE"; that would be my default assumption at your thoughts on us Muslims. Nobody said that we know better than they... we say that they do not know everything... at least I know that part.
I wouldn't be here in this forum if I didn't
...Nobody is rejecting science. We are rejecting your claim that ToE is absolute in describing how the human race came to be; since we still equate much of it with "guess work". You're forgetting that it was Islam that "busted out" with "science"
.. Allah knows what science would have been like today if it weren't for the Euros scheming to dominate Arabia... These days like Fatihah mentioned, we can't bother... there are far too many (political?) problems to allow for the taking back of science (if I can say that lol). Just because I use (and like btw) my computer... it doesn't make it level with ToE. Isn't there anything in Islam that you don't reject and if so, wouldn't that be an inconsistency on your part? That's not a call to reject everything you may appreciate... you see what I'm getting at? Peace be upon you.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Unless I missed something, I don't think anyone here has claimed evolutionary theory to be "absolute" regarding anything.
The problem is, you guys are reaching that conclusion without having done much research into the data or science behind evolutionary biology. If you guys had done such research, you would be familiar with it and your posts would read very differently.
As I expressed to Fatihah earlier, that's like concluding the Quran is full of lies without ever having read any of it.
DarkSun
:eltiT
They expect a crocoduck.... which is silly because such a chimera would disprove evolution.
But they will ignore these...
(a-b) Dorudon (c-d) Maiacetus
wa:do
That reminds me of a funny picture I saw recently.
And this one:
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
ug... I hate those kind of pictures... they make evolution look like a ladder or linear progression when it isn't. :bonk:
But I do appreciate the comedy behind them.
wa:do
But I do appreciate the comedy behind them.
wa:do
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
What are you talking about? Are you asserting that Muslims have some special expertise in paleontology? What I'm saying is, paleontologists know more about paleontology than I (or you) do, so until I know as much as they do, I think it makes sense to accept what they say about paleontology.
An opinion about an organism you never heard of until today.
Common sense is not helpful in scientific matters. Neither is what Allah has to say. What matters is facts. It's hard to "prove" something to people who can't even comprehend the most basic, elementary, simple idea that IT'S NOT ABOUT PROOF.We're basically using common sense (developed by going to UK/US curricular schools
Someone who's losing her patience. Go back through the thread. Count how many times I've said, "It's not about evidence; it's about proof," or "I"m agreeing that Allah is the creator of all." Seriously, count them. It's beyond ignorance at this point. There seems to be some kind of brain damage that prevents some posters from taking in new information, no matter how many times it's repeated, and no matter how simply it's stated. What is the problem? Maybe you can explain it to me.
Look, ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of. I'm ignorant of many, many, things. But it's also not a source of authority or way to refute knowledge. When you're ignorant about something, the wise view to take is to admit it, and accept information that more knowledgeable people provide, don't you agree?
Sure, get a second opinion from another paleontologist. Consult all of them. There's a consensus on this point. There is no controversy within paleontology. The only controversy is from people that know almost nothing about it.p.s. isn't it anyone's right to get a second opinion?
No, I meant what I said. To be accepted as a scientific theory, you have to pass the most challenging skeptics in the world--scientists. The world's leading biologists attacked ToE from every angle for decades. Only after it passed every test was it tentatively accepted. Finally, decades later, when all the evidence that came in confirmed it, was it accepted as a firm, well-supported theory. If the experts can't find any problems with, believe me, you're not going to.
Of course not, and no one says they do. But compared to you and me, they know reams more. That's the point.
O.K. great. Share with us your knowledge, not your ignorance. Show us what you know about Biology. And when you don't know, admit it.I wouldn't be here in this forum if I didn't
You don't even know what science is. Science is never absolute. Why can you not grasp that? If you reject ToE because it's not absolute, you're rejecting it because it's science. It's the best knowledge we have on the subject of the origin of species.
Sorry, you lost me.You're forgetting that it was Islam that "busted out" with "science"
I guess that's why you're doing so lousy--you can't be bothered.
It is, though, that's the point. ToE is one of the most robust and best supported theories in all of science. It's as well-evidence as the theory that the earth revolves around the sun. The only way to reject is to reject the possibility of scientific knowledge.
No, unless it has as sound an evidentiary basis as a scientific theory.
Youre wrong. They're not equivalent at all, and I'm tired of you Muslims trying to equate scientific knowledge with a religious belief. One is supported by the scientific method, the other is not. You can believe it all you want, but don't try to assert that it's sound science; it isn't.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
About these transitional forms, and our previous analogy between black and white. ToE says that we will see various shades of gray. We won't see a creature that's half white and half black.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Trust me, friend, when I say that there really are some things you don't need to clarify. It is abundantly obvious the Muslims (on RF, at least) have a very poor grasp of the issues involved in the Theory of Evolution.
Actually, you are because in Muslim arguments in this thread not a single one of you would seem to have a great understanding of the scientific method.
This is a gross generalization of a process of which the Muslims on RF would appear to be somewhat ignorant of. It is not guess work in the same order of reasoning that for example the Qur'an is the word of God. Now THAT is guesswork as the supposition cannot be proven one way or the other.
And you are ignoring the fact that Islam has contributed extremely little to the furthering of science since its "golden era", so it isn't a great surprise that Muslims are far behind in their scientific thinking.You're forgetting that it was Islam that "busted out" with "science"
*Giggle* *snort* ~ Oh, that comment is rich... VERY rich.
*Falls off his chair due to uncontrollable laughter*
How convenient is this comment? You can't be bothered?
You can say whatever you like, but the liklihood of this ever happening in the future is remote. You know and I know it. Remember... you can't be bothered. Meanwhile we'll be heading to the stars and you will be sitting here chatting about your Imam and Judgment day.
What you don't seem to grasp is that the computer was created with the same ingenuity that gave us the Theory of Evolution. Please note: It isn't called the Evolution Hypothesis. That's because there is so much evidence to support the concept, but more importantly, scientists have been able to verify each others work from the get go and went on to make predictions that yet other scientists discovered were valid predictions. Scientific inquiry is not like visiting the Oracle of Delphi.
Speaking for myself, no, I am, if anything, consistent. Muslims have even taken me to task for it, lol. Sadly, out of all the world's magnificent religions I find little of merit in Islam that is worthy of note. It's a dreary ideology that seems to negatively affect the intelligence of the believer.
DarkSun
:eltiT
Guys... I think it would be a good idea not to turn this into a case of Islam versus Evolution. Islam and the ToE are completely compatible. To claim otherwise is only going to make everyone in this thread reject the theory by default without even considering it... Which they're already doing, but try not to make it worse, hey? :slap:
slave2six
Substitious
Frubals galore for this. If you weren't the head lesbian I'd give you a kiss. It's about damned time someone said it.
Can you cite sources for this? I'm currently in a debate with my brother and would love to have this kind of evidence.
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darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
It has been made that why by members debating in favour of evolution being forced to accept that Allah exists to even have a reasonable debate. That in itself is scientifically dishonest as no evidence exists.
I wish such debates could exist without including God, because we can't even get certain people to accept that evolution occurs, let alone have a discussion about how evolution started.
RamaRaksha
*banned*
When religion and science differ, religion must yield to Science. The True God is not Rama, Krishna, Allah or christ, the True God is Truth. Scientists who reject religion in the pursuit of Truth are truly blessed.
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
wheres the fun in that?