Ex Christians

[BobbyisStrange]

I was a devout Lutheran for about 26 years. I thought I had a pretty strong relationship with Jesus, and then I read a book called Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman and the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins…Surprisingly out of the two, Ehrmans book hit me harder than Dawkins book. It showed me that the Bible is obviously not the word of God, and this it is filled with inconsistencies. From there I went on to read other books by other biblical scholars, more Ehrman, Robert Price, Richard Carrier and so on…As my critical thinking skills grew along with my skepticism, I realized there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of Christ, let alone him being savoir. I called myself an agnostic for a while until I realized that wasn’t a position of belief, but a position of knowledge…I don’t know if God or Jesus exist or existed, but as a belief, no I don’t believe they have or do exist.

 

[Pastek]

Do yourself a favour and try and keep jesus in the grave for longer than two days and two nights according to the Christian faith :

Friday night to Saturday night .....day 1
Saturday night to Sundaynight.....day 2

The Catholic church and all of Christianity icluding Protestants believe he resurected on Sunday ......[The Lords day ]
That is why they defend Sunday as Sabbathday.
.

Like i said, you don't need to believe in the NT in 100% to believe in Jesus/Yeshua.
I don't believe that he was dead so how will i believe at this story in the grave ?
Yet i still believe he's the Messiah

 

[Falvlun]

So I've read a couple of posts about people claiming to be "ex christians" and I'm curious as to what they mean exactly. If you are an ex-christain were you in a relationship with Jesus Christ and decided you wanted the relationship to end?

I held very fundamental Christian beliefs until I was 18 years old. I definitely felt I was in a relationship with God, and no, I didn't want it to end. During the period of losing my faith, I actually felt that I was losing my best friend.

Was it that the belief of christiantity stopped making sense or something else entirely? Please let me know.

The concept that caused me to lose my faith in Christianity was the realization that it was unfair and unjust.

1. Unfair: If the only way to achieve salvation is by believing in Jesus, then salvation is largely contingent upon an accident of birth. It is easier to become a Christian if you live in western countries where it is predominant, than middle eastern or asian ones, where it is socially unacceptable or simply not culturally intuitive.

Imagine that Islam was truly the only way to get to heaven. You have been raised as a Christian. While you are acquainted with the general claims, beliefs, and practices of Islam, you are highly unlikely to convert to it because of your upbringing, and your cultural conditioning. Do you think you have the same chance as Ahmed in Saudi Arabia at achieving salvation? The same is true in reverse, regarding Christianity.

I was unable to correlate my belief in a loving God with such an unfair and dumb-luck method of salvation. I decided that while God existed, Christianity was not the way in which he operates.

2. Unjust: After leaving Christianity I was able to see it from a fresher point-of-view. The whole concept of original sin-- whereby sin is somehow genetically passed on-- is incredibly unjust. The concept of killing an innocent person for the transgressions of another is incredibly unjust. The concept that eternal punishment is the result of even the most minor of transgressions, and that honest attempts at being a good person are not appreciated, is unjust. The concept that there must be a sacrifice in order for forgiveness is unjust.

It's also irrational. God is omnipotent. He could have created any rules he wanted. He did not have to sacrifice himself (Jesus) in order to appease rules he himself set in place so that he himself would be able to forgive people of being unable to achieve an impossible set of standards that he himself put in place. He could have either a) lowered the standards and made them more reasonable and obtainable. He could have been truly caring and understanding; or b) He could have simply forgiven people, no Jesus sacrifice necessary. Jesus' death on the cross is completely superfluous; it's an unnecessary step in a forgiveness process.

Eventually, I came to the realization that since I no longer believed in Christianity, I also really had no reason to believe that God existed. I believed he existed because the Bible said he existed, but if the Bible was wrong about so much else, why should I think it got this part right too? I've been searching , but I haven't found any other reason to reclaim my belief that God exists.

 

[Pastek]

The Old Testament is full of inner contradictions, one of the most interesting being how many passages give the sense that the writers believed there to be more than one god.

I don't remember that. But I didn't finish to read it in the same time.

One of the biggest problems I had was related to the various prophesies Jesus was said to fulfill. He is said to even have said things like "I have to do this, or the prophesy won't come true", giving the sense he was consciously manipulating the situation. I don't think he actually did, but the ones writing the Gospels bended the story sometimes.
It's been a while since that, so I can't remember all passages by heart anymore.

Too bad you don't remember

 

[CMike]

So, you believe in him ? Yeshua or Jesus it's the same person. You don't need to believe at the church's teachings/doctrine. Just the fact.

Because Jesus made miracles as great as Moses, why not believe he's a prophet/Messiah ?

No he didn't.

Jesus didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies in michah 4:3 and Ezekiel 37.

Also no G-d fearing Jew would ever expect to be worshipped in any manner.

Jesus betrayed G-d by trying to lead jews away from their true G-d.

 

[mycorrhiza]

Well yes he does have the Israelites kill nations who don't believe in him, and when the Israelites turn against him he allows them to be put in situations such as slavery. And yes he is a jealous God, but rightly so. However he also sent his son to die for the entire world. You can't get much more loving and caring then that. Especially considering when Jesus died the torturous death on the cross he didn't force everyone to believe in him. He was dying for everyone and they were given the choice to reject him. Why do you think he's bigoted?

You could be more loving by only doing the good things and not killing people and encouraging others to kill people. He didn't have to send His son to get tortured, He could have just taken away the sins of people anyway. He is bigoted because He thinks that women are less than men and that homosexuality is immoral.

If you believe in hell, then he's really not that loving. I wouldn't want to sentence even Hitler to eternal torture. It's plain evil to torture someone, especially for all eternity.

 

[Iti oj]

I learned to ask questions and think fo myself I also looked at reality and facts

 

[Pastek]

No he didn't.

Jesus didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies in michah 4:3 and Ezekiel 37.

Also no G-d fearing Jew would ever expect to be worshipped in any manner.

Jesus betrayed G-d by trying to lead jews away from their true G-d.

He didn't yes, but in the same time he said he's coming back. Who said he have to do everything in the same time ?
I don't see how he have betrayed God or his people.

14.1 Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.

14.2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

14.3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.


I remember something about the Prophet Elie. That he disapeared or something like that and people waited him (but I don't know very much about). Why not Jesus ?

 

[Vadergirl123]

I was raised Conservative Baptist, accepted Jesus Christ at age 12 and was baptized soon thereafter. Later in life I married my wife in a Southern Baptist church that I soon joined and became an active member in. Eventually my wife and I took over running the Youth Group and I was asked to become a Deacon.
As a Youth Group leader and Deacon, I delved even further into studying the Bible. The more I studied, the larger my doubts grew about the premise of Christianity. The more I learned, not only about the Bible, but the history of Christianity, natural history, and how the world naturally works, the more I realized that I could no longer follow what I now considered superstition and unreasonable dogma.
It was my reading of "Science as a Candle in the Dark" by Carl Sagan and "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine that eventually lead to my evolving beliefs in Deism.

Today, I continue my studies of science and religion, specifically religious anthropology, and am constantly amazed at the peace brought about by living in harmony with reality.

Oh wow. What was some of the stuff you believed was the dogma and superstition? So then would you also say that you had a relationship with Christ and then decided to end it?

 

[Vadergirl123]

Do I believe it to be literal and historically accurate account? No.
Do I believe it to be a rich and meaningful mythology? Yes.
Do I beleive it to be the foundation of a teaching that says everyone is born already sentenced to eternal damnation? Definitely not.

Ah okay, so were you ever a christian in the first place?

 

[waitasec]

Oh wow. What was some of the stuff you believed was the dogma and superstition? So then would you also say that you had a relationship with Christ and then decided to end it?

excuse me, but did you take his post personally?

 

[Vadergirl123]

I was raised in the Catholic church. Was baptized, received communion, went to confession, was confirmed, and honestly enjoyed the Sunday services. I liked the idea of community, all the varying charity services we involved ourselves in to help others, the sights, sounds, pageantry, compassion, and feelings of joy.

There were two nagging doubts in my mind, however, as I kneeled to pray at night before bed:

1) I was attracted to males, but I couldn't shake my attraction to females. I had no idea that bisexuality existed, but was taught that homosexuality is sick and an abomination. So I prayed, and begged, and cried, and trusted in God to heal me of my attractions. All was fine until a pretty woman would sit next to me in the pews on Sunday, and the roller coaster ride of electricity and self-loathing would start again.

2) I could never feel right with the idea of an anthropomorphic deity who demands a conditional relationship with his followers. Believe, or burn. I prayed and studied to come to terms with it as a truism, and in college became involved with Campus Crusade for Christ, and I continued to fret over that teaching. Believe, or burn. Eventually, I felt the entire Christian theology as it was taught to me demanded an abusive relationship where my understanding of God could be flawed, and if I understood incorrectly, I'm doomed to an eternity in Hell. It's like being tied in a chair, doused with gasoline, and set on fire because I didn't please dad enough.

I eventually chose to leave the Christian community and take a break from religion. I searched for a few years, even tried more progressive and universalist beliefs. After a yoga class in NYC, somebody suggested I look into Buddhism, which I had no idea what it was except I thought it was some fat guy whose belly you rub for good luck. I finally gave in, went to Barnes and Noble, looked in the Eastern religion section, saw a few books by Thich Nhat Hanh, bought one and took it home to read.

Right from the beginning, I was skeptical, but the teaching tugged at my heart. So I practiced. I meditated every day and practiced and studied. I stopped being angry. I forgave all those harmed me from the Christian community. I felt true loving kindness and an open heart.

I understand life and death differently now, and whenever I think of the Christian God, I'm usually just compelled to give him a hug.

It always seems like he needs one.

Very interesting, so did you ever accept Christ as your savior and start a relationship with him? Or were you afraid to because you believed he was an abusive God?

 

[Vadergirl123]

excuse me, but did you take his post personally?

No not at all. I'm not really taking any of these personally. I'm curious as to why people left the christain faith.

 

[Tarheeler]

Ah okay, so were you ever a christian in the first place?

As I've already stated, yes, I was raised as a Southern Baptist. I was once very much a Christian.

 

[Vadergirl123]

It's kind of hard to decide to end a relationship with someone you no longer believe exists.

Indeed, did you start out being in a relationship with Christ?

It also might be worth noting I "flunked" baptism...didn't even know it was possible.

When you say flunked, do you mean you didn't get baptized? If someone doesn't get baptized that doesn't mean they're going to hell. Baptism doesn't save you.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Indeed, did you start out being in a relationship with Christ?

Technically no, as no child instinctually knows of Jesus. I was raised Christian, and prayed regularly (and with decent effects too). Jesus never seemed very interesting though. I typically focused on God directly, and the angels.

When you say flunked, do you mean you didn't get baptized? If someone doesn't get baptized that doesn't mean they're going to hell. Baptism doesn't save you.

LOL. What I meant is they required you take classes beforehand, and being the lazy bum that I am, I never did my "homework". It was rather amusing.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Very interesting, so did you ever accept Christ as your savior and start a relationship with him? Or were you afraid to because you believed he was an abusive God?

Oh, I did. I thought I felt the power of the holy spirit many times throughout the 20 some odd years I identified myself as a Christian.

I was a brilliant apologist and justified the abuse for years. Battered women do the same with their abusers by saying, "But I love him!" and either deny the abuse exists or justifies it by excusing his temperament or by feeling deserving of punishment.

I have no need for such perspectives. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt to prove it, and it nearly drove me to putting a gun in my mouth and pulling the trigger. No thanks.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Define 'relationship with Jesus'.

When you admit you're a sinner and are destined to go to hell because of your sin, and realize the only thing that can save you is believing that Jesus' death on the cross. and when you confess this to God that's what saves you, and at that moment you're adopted into God's family. You become his child and start a relationship with him. Of course as in any relationship you have to sacrifice things, however Christ showed us how much he loved us, and out of love for him we should have a desire to serve him, obey his word, and learn more about him. That's what christianity is all about

For me personally it was that Christianity stopped making sense and I found more problems than solutions.

gotcha

 

[Vadergirl123]

I was raised Christian, but as a teenager I became increasingly sceptical about what I was taught. I read the Bible a lot and found it inconsistent and the God in it violent and jealous. The New Testament didn't make any sense on logical standards either. I hung around as a semi-believer until I was old enough to move away from home and after that it didn't take me long to shed Christianity completely.

Ah okay that must've been frustrating. Do you not believe God's also caring and loving?

 

[Vadergirl123]

I was raised in a Baptist church and later in life found the Baha'i Faith. Being a Baha'i I still accept Jesus and believe in His promised return ... so I still feel I have a "relationship" with Jesus and have not decided I wanted the relationship to end.

Oh okay I no very little about the Baha'i religion(another one I need to look into haha) So then what's your relationship with Christ based on?