Ex Christians

[Vadergirl123]

exactly...the truths in the bible are subjected to personal opinion.

When you add opinions you in a sense are becomming your own Bible. Again your opinons shouldn't dictate what the Bible says.

so why didn't they know what we know now?

Like what things?

if god revealed his "word" which has been a topic of debate forever...why did he not also say...'look i didn't cause that earthquake because of your sin it's just the tectonics plates i created that are constantly moving.'
or, 'look your sickness isn't caused by the curse of sin, it's just a virus.'

Why would God have said that? The things he did really were because of their sins.

because it has.

What event was this?

 

[waitasec]

I don't know how you would treat her. There are some christains and non-believers who probably would've been jerks to her, and there are other christains and non-believers who would've been nice to her.

which brings us back to individuality and our subjective understanding.
like i said... i see no difference between "christ's love" and the "love" some of us give to one another. in fact, with regards to same sex marriages, voting against it, some would say the are displaying "tough love" which is just a cowardly way of using god as justification for attempting to control the actions of others that really have no personal consequences to the one doing the controlling.

Hmm well are you genuinely nice to someone who hates you or treats you wrongly? Can you still bring yourself to genuinely care about them?

i stay away from those who hate me. define care?

 

[Vadergirl123]

yes. i have no power over what one chooses to do.
do you?

No, but I didn't ask if, "you could stop them." I asked if it was right. You really believe it's right for someone to lie if they're personal morals say it's okay?

so then why have those commandments about not lying and stealing and killing..it is they way in which we live with one another that is paramount

Because he doesn't want us to lie and steal. Christ didn't come to earth to give us commandments on how to live. He came to die for us.

 

[Vadergirl123]

which brings us back to individuality and our subjective understanding.
like i said... i see no difference between "christ's love" and the "love" some of us give to one another.

Fair enough I didn't give a good example to show how Christ's love is different. I just gave an example to show how I was nice to someone.

i stay away from those who hate me. define care?

Of course, that makes since. However I don't mind going out of my way to do something nice for them, say something encouraging, offer to help out even if they continue to hate me. I don't do it because I want some personal reward.
Care as in you're concerned about someone, want to help them out, you're there for them if they need someone.

 

[waitasec]

I don't know. The Bible doesn't say and I have no way to know since I can't go back in time and watch the process.

well we have a problem here. a big one. since this passage DOES mention the token that would determine if she was a virgin or not was if there was BLOOD or not.

here is where you need to provide an outside source to determine if this was the way one determined who was and wasn't a virgin.

are you seriously saying there was another way to determine if she was a virgin in those days that we don't know about, really?

 

[waitasec]

I don't know. The Bible doesn't say and I have no way to know since I can't go back in time and watch the process.

so why would we know one way ancient way to check to see if a girl was a virgin was if she bled and the other way to know was somehow not passed down

this doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Vadergirl123]

well we have a problem here. a big one. since this passage DOES mention the token that would determine if she was a virgin or not was if there was BLOOD or not.

It says the token yeah, but as I've said there must've been some other way.

here is where you need to provide an outside source to determine if this was the way one determined who was and wasn't a virgin.

I still don't know...

are you seriously saying there was another way to determine if she was a virgin in those days that we don't know about, really?

There must've been something. Why are you so sure there wasn't? Do you not want to believe that an ancient culture had another way to discover if a girl was a virgin, or do you like the idea of God being a tyrant?

 

[waitasec]

Fair enough I didn't give a good example to show how Christ's love is different. I just gave an example to show how I was nice to someone.


Of course, that makes since. However I don't mind going out of my way to do something nice for them, say something encouraging, offer to help out even if they continue to hate me. I don't do it because I want some personal reward.
Care as in you're concerned about someone, want to help them out, you're there for them if they need someone.

if the opportunity came along, i would too.
i do it because it's a chance to make life easier.

 

[waitasec]

There must've been something. Why are you so sure there wasn't? Do you not want to believe that an ancient culture had another way to discover if a girl was a virgin, or do you like the idea of God being a tyrant?

can you tell me why there must have been another way other then the way it was mentioned in that passage?

 

[waitasec]

No, but I didn't ask if, "you could stop them." I asked if it was right.

it is right for them, even though it may harm me...they think it's right no matter what anyone says.

You really believe it's right for someone to lie if they're personal morals say it's okay?

i think it's annoying and disruptive. even if i thought it wasn't right for me, how does that affect their right to think that lying is right?

Because he doesn't want us to lie and steal. Christ didn't come to earth to give us commandments on how to live. He came to die for us.

hmmm...so what was the sermon on the mount all about?

 

[waitasec]

There must've been something. Why are you so sure there wasn't? Do you not want to believe that an ancient culture had another way to discover if a girl was a virgin, or do you like the idea of God being a tyrant?

can you tell me why there must have been another way other then the way it was mentioned in that passage?

think about the logistics here...
is there anything in the bible that mentions the hymen?

if the bible is laying out the justification to stone a girl to death shouldn't the bible be really specific in determining if she were a virgin, i mean we are talking about a persons life here.
and i'm amazed at the idea that it is perfectly acceptable to you that a girl should be stoned to death for not being a virgin. so does that mean when you meet a girl who is not a virgin and she was killed for not being one, you wouldn't bat an eye?

 

[Alceste]

Okay let me try to give an analogy,
Lets say there's a little boy(the women) and he steals a cookie(has sexual relationships), which he's not suppose to do. And lets say he gets chocolate(proof), from the cookie, all over his mouth and on his teeth. Now lets say that his brother(the husband) is like "Mom, dad Henry stole a cookie. Well the parents will then go to their son and once they see the chocolate on his mouth and teeth, smell his breath, etc they'll know he stole it.
However they're not punishing him for having chocolate on his teeth and mouth.(the proof of virginity) they're punishing him for stealing the cookie and eating it.
When you say the woman was punished for not bleeding, it's like you're saying the boy was punished for having chocolate all over him.


I'm not refusing to understand it. The woman wa punished for having sexual relationships. If you want to argue that it's not fair to be stoned for having sex outside of marriage then fine, but it's not fair to say she was stoned for not bleeding.


If I lived in that time period and my daughter, knowing the law, went and had sexual relationships then yeah she'd be stoned. I wouldn't want it of course, but it was her choice and I couldn't prevent the elders from stoning her anyway. I think I already answered this question.

You never went as far as explaining that you actually believe that a woman not bleeding the first time is credible "proof" of her guilt. That's quite an ignorant opinion, easily rectified by a rudimentary education in female biology. Would you like to see some references?

 

[Rakhel]

Well think about it, all views about the Bible can't be different and yet all be right. That doesn't really make sense

Actually, it can.
The way I view it is right and the way you view it is wrong, from my perspective. Just as from your perspective, the way you view it is right and the way I view it is wrong.

I don't know much about judaism, but I thought they used different books. I thought in Judaism they didn't use all of the Bible?

No. That's not entirely correct.
We use the entire bible, or Tanakh.

It's just that your Christian forefathers added some extra books to it.
You call it The New Testament.

I think you might be thinking of Catholicism.

 

[waitasec]

There must've been something. Why are you so sure there wasn't? Do you not want to believe that an ancient culture had another way to discover if a girl was a virgin, or do you like the idea of God being a tyrant?

i just want to add one more thought about this.
i cannot wrap my head around an idea that would suggest that god is concerned if a girl was a virgin or not, this is so telling that this was more of how society viewed girls...and how this particular society placed value on a girls life....if she was a virgin or not. i don't think god had anything to do with it...
i think "god", or more likely the idea of god, was just a justification for killing someone who wasn't a virgin.

 

[Alceste]

I said sometimes killing is okay. I think killing animals is fine as are armies when they're fighting for their countries. I've also said(countless times)that I don't approve murder. Do you believe armies and killing animals is immoral?

As a matter of fact, I do think killing in war is wrong. I also think animal abuse is wrong. I eat meat, but I go out of my way to find suppliers who don't mistreat their animals. Everything eats something.

 

[Vadergirl123]

As a matter of fact, I do think killing in war is wrong. I also think animal abuse is wrong. I eat meat, but I go out of my way to find suppliers who don't mistreat their animals. Everything eats something.

Are you a pacifist? I agree animal abuse is terirble, and that's great that you look for good suppliers.

 

[Alceste]

Are you a pacifist? I agree animal abuse is terirble, and that's great that you look for good suppliers.

Yes, I spouse you could say I'm a pacifist, although I am pragmatic about it. I think the only justifiable time to kill another person is if your life is in immediate danger and there is no other option.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Yes, I spouse you could say I'm a pacifist, although I am pragmatic about it. I think the only justifiable time to kill another person is if your life is in immediate danger and there is no other option.

Amen sister

 

[Vadergirl123]

so why would we know one way ancient way to check to see if a girl was a virgin was if she bled and the other way to know was somehow not passed down
this doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know why the other ways weren't mentioned. Why would the Israelites have passed them down?

 

[Vadergirl123]

if the opportunity came along, i would too.
i do it because it's a chance to make life easier.

Okay but I thought you "stayed away form people who hated you" How can you stay away and help them out?
Would you help them if it didn't benefit you or the world at all?