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Exacerbating Sin: Is it just? Is it faithful?

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
God's Law was intended to exacerbate sin, in order for man to appreciate his need for a Redeemer, and allow the Law of faith to be instituted.

Hi DNB,

I greatly appreciate your clear and plain speech on this. I treasure the honesty. I hope you don't mind that I pulled this quote out of the other thread so that it could be discussed.

Deut 30:8 asserts:

NWT: "You will then return and listen to the voice of Jehovah and observe all his commandments that I am commanding you today."​

Deut 30:11-14 asserts:

NWT: "Now this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not in the heavens, so that you have to say, ‘Who will ascend to the heavens and get it for us, so that we may hear it and observe it? Nor is it on the other side of the sea, so that you have to say, ‘Who will cross over to the other side of the sea and get it for us, so that we may hear it and observe it? For the word is very near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart, so that you may do it."​

Deut 32:3-4 asserts:

NWT: "For I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he."​


Setting up the Jewish people for failure would be the opposite of justice, the opposite of faithfulness. God tells the Jewish people the commandments are not too difficult; God's word is very near, and they can do it. Intentionally exacerbating sin makes God a liar, unjust, and unfaithful. How can this be?

Thank you,

-------------------------------------------

Christians and fellow RF'ians: What do you think of this idea that God of the bible who claims to be just and faithful setup the Jewish people to fail for many generations for the sole purpose of bringing a redeemer?
 
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PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Although I'm skeptical of that idea @dybmh , one thing I have heard from a Christian article once was that the Jews failed by wanting a human king. And that caused future 'failure'.

I no longer have that article, but I thought I would mention it anyway.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
@dybmh
This idea that Christians have that the purpose of the law is only to teach us the need for God as a savior is horrifying to Jews. We see the law as something wonderful. It draws us nearer to God. It gives us better lives. As Psalm 19 says, "It is sweeter than the honey and the honeycomb."
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Hi DNB,

I greatly appreciate your clear and plain speech on this. I treasure the honesty. I hope you don't mind that I pulled this quote out of the other thread so that it could be discussed.

Deut 30:8 asserts:

NWT: "You will then return and listen to the voice of Jehovah and observe all his commandments that I am commanding you today."​

Deut 30:11-14 asserts:

NWT: "Now this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not in the heavens, so that you have to say, ‘Who will ascend to the heavens and get it for us, so that we may hear it and observe it? Nor is it on the other side of the sea, so that you have to say, ‘Who will cross over to the other side of the sea and get it for us, so that we may hear it and observe it? For the word is very near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart, so that you may do it."​

Deut 32:3-4 asserts:

NWT: "For I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he."​


Setting up the Jewish people for failure would be the opposite of justice, the opposite of faithfulness. God tells the Jewish people the commandments are not too difficult; God's word is very near, and they can do it. Intentionally exacerbating sin makes God a liar, unjust, and unfaithful. How can this be?

Thank you,

-------------------------------------------

Christians and fellow RF'ians: What do you think of this idea that God of the bible who claims to be just and faithful setup the Jewish people to fail for many generations for the sole purpose of bringing a redeemer?
I don't want to be accused of stalking you (!), but maybe l can clarify the difference between righteousness under the law, and the righteousness of God.

The Law can be done, in so far as it is observable to man, because obedience under the law is judged outwardly, by practice. As such, it's the righteousness of man. Had it been the righteousness of God, it would include a judgement of the heart, and of faith.

In Philippians 3:5-7, Paul makes the case for his own obedience under the law.
'Circumcised on the eighth day, of the stock of lsrael, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But what things were gain to me, those l counted loss for Christ'.

So, Paul saw himself as blameless before the law, but this did not stop him from saying that all men were sinners. To hold both positions, he had to have seen sin as a deeper problem than the law made evident. This, of course, is what Jesus also preached. Jesus said that the law commanded people not to commit adultery, but then added that to look upon a woman lustfully amounted to adultery. In other words, the heart of man can be guilty of sin even if a man's outward appearance is like a polished sepulchre!
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
@dybmh
This idea that Christians have that the purpose of the law is only to teach us the need for God as a savior is horrifying to Jews. We see the law as something wonderful. It draws us nearer to God. It gives us better lives. As Psalm 19 says, "It is sweeter than the honey and the honeycomb."
It's not like that.
We have the ten commandments...and they are the law. Then there is the eleventh commandment which is Love, and implies that Christendom must live according to a project of unity, solidarity, cooperation, altruism.
God is a savior in the sense that we all sin, and so we need a Savior that forgives us.
That grants us salvation. Even the holiest saints are sinners, no matter how slight their sins are.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Hi DNB,

I greatly appreciate your clear and plain speech on this. I treasure the honesty. I hope you don't mind that I pulled this quote out of the other thread so that it could be discussed.

Deut 30:8 asserts:

NWT: "You will then return and listen to the voice of Jehovah and observe all his commandments that I am commanding you today."​

Deut 30:11-14 asserts:

NWT: "Now this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not in the heavens, so that you have to say, ‘Who will ascend to the heavens and get it for us, so that we may hear it and observe it? Nor is it on the other side of the sea, so that you have to say, ‘Who will cross over to the other side of the sea and get it for us, so that we may hear it and observe it? For the word is very near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart, so that you may do it."​

Deut 32:3-4 asserts:

NWT: "For I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he."​


Setting up the Jewish people for failure would be the opposite of justice, the opposite of faithfulness. God tells the Jewish people the commandments are not too difficult; God's word is very near, and they can do it. Intentionally exacerbating sin makes God a liar, unjust, and unfaithful. How can this be?

Thank you,

-------------------------------------------

Christians and fellow RF'ians: What do you think of this idea that God of the bible who claims to be just and faithful setup the Jewish people to fail for many generations for the sole purpose of bringing a redeemer?


I wouldn't use Christianity as a measure of Jewish belief.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Christians and fellow RF'ians: What do you think of this idea that God of the bible who claims to be just and faithful setup the Jewish people to fail for many generations for the sole purpose of bringing a redeemer?

I wouldn't say it that way. The redeemer in the TaNaKh was already declared that he was coming even before the law was instituted.

Could we say that if man could fulfill the law we wouldn't need all the offerings for sin?

It isn't that the Jewish people were "set up for sin". I would say, in some sense, that we are basically all "set up for sin".

Is God just? Of course! Is He faithful? To the nth degree! Is He merciful with our sin? Higher than the Heavens are to the earth! Do we need a savior? I believe so (as per my signature)

Deuteronomy 30:11-14. Thus our view is (that it is not too difficult for us):
Roman 10:5-8a Moses writes of righteousness-by-the-Law when he says that ‘the man who does those things shall live by them’—which is theoretically right but impossible in practice. But righteousness-by-faith says something like this: ‘Do not say in your heart, Who will ascend into heaven?’ to bring Christ down to us, or ‘who will descend into the abyss’ to bring him up from the dead? ‘The word is near you, even in your mouth and in your heart’.

8b-11 It is the secret of faith, which is the burden of our preaching, and it says, in effect, “If you openly admit by your own mouth that Jesus Christ is the Lord, and if you believe in your own heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” For it is believing in the heart that makes a man righteous before God, and it is stating his belief by his own mouth that confirms his salvation. And the scripture says: ‘Whoever believes on him will not be put to shame’.

12-13 And that “whoever” means anyone, without distinction between Jew or Greek. For all have the same Lord, whose boundless resources are available to all who turn to him in faith. For: ‘Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved’.
 
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Colt

Well-Known Member
Hi DNB,

I greatly appreciate your clear and plain speech on this. I treasure the honesty. I hope you don't mind that I pulled this quote out of the other thread so that it could be discussed.

Deut 30:8 asserts:

NWT: "You will then return and listen to the voice of Jehovah and observe all his commandments that I am commanding you today."​

Deut 30:11-14 asserts:

NWT: "Now this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not in the heavens, so that you have to say, ‘Who will ascend to the heavens and get it for us, so that we may hear it and observe it? Nor is it on the other side of the sea, so that you have to say, ‘Who will cross over to the other side of the sea and get it for us, so that we may hear it and observe it? For the word is very near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart, so that you may do it."​

Deut 32:3-4 asserts:

NWT: "For I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he."​


Setting up the Jewish people for failure would be the opposite of justice, the opposite of faithfulness. God tells the Jewish people the commandments are not too difficult; God's word is very near, and they can do it. Intentionally exacerbating sin makes God a liar, unjust, and unfaithful. How can this be?

Thank you,

-------------------------------------------

Christians and fellow RF'ians: What do you think of this idea that God of the bible who claims to be just and faithful setup the Jewish people to fail for many generations for the sole purpose of bringing a redeemer?

* The claim that God established simple laws in order to exacerbate sin is absurd! HOWEVER, the created, instinctual human self is often faced with choices between the desires of the self and the will of God who is our heavenly parent. God is raising us to grow up spiritually. So we were created with that "tension" and a free will to make choices. That IS the plan of Gods economy.

* In the original Gospel Jesus sought to return to the basics of salvation by faith which came about by realizing sonship with God, living a decided life wherein doing the will of God is fundamental, central, our sole purpose! Institutional religion can be man's clever way of avoiding our commitments! The unnecessarily complicated theological gymnastics, traditions, festivals, compulsive obsessive rules and man-made requirements had come between man and God. Expensive sacrifices adopted from the Pagan world was a heavy burden for the average person.

* It should be noted that so called Christian theology came about as the result of Jewish men who had become followers of the Jesus movement speculating about what it all meant after Jesus was gone!!! The vantage point in their thinking was trying to make sense of Jesus through the lens of their old religion and expectations of a Messiah.

* Mattew 9 Later, as Jesus was dining at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with Him and His disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”12On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

So, there were already saved Jews who didn't need to repent and didn't need a redeemer!!! That was post-cross speculation and conjecture that became Christian theology. Jesus never taught that he was supposed to be killed as an atoning sacrifice. Again, that was post-cross speculation.

* One of the most influential people in the beginning of Christian theology was a Jewish guy named Saul who had a spiritual awakening and became Paul!!! He never even met Jesus when he was on the earth, but his speculation about everything became a religion ABOUT Jesus which literally replaced the religion OF Jesus!


So no! The Jews were not "set up to fail" so God could send an innocent man to die for everybody!
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
I find the notion that a deity issues a law to make blasphemies or "sins" worse, only so that people will then look to that same deity as a savior because of course they're able to solve the problem absolutely repugnant. Were it any other subject (or hell, even when it's other deities) it's seen as evil and manipulative. But the god of Abraham? A-Okay! And aside from that, there's zero evidence for it outside a book. Why people condone and believe in a notion like this is absolutely beyond me (besides from, of course, extensive generational indoctrination).
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Hi DNB,

I greatly appreciate your clear and plain speech on this. I treasure the honesty. I hope you don't mind that I pulled this quote out of the other thread so that it could be discussed.

Deut 30:8 asserts:

NWT: "You will then return and listen to the voice of Jehovah and observe all his commandments that I am commanding you today."​

Deut 30:11-14 asserts:

NWT: "Now this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not in the heavens, so that you have to say, ‘Who will ascend to the heavens and get it for us, so that we may hear it and observe it? Nor is it on the other side of the sea, so that you have to say, ‘Who will cross over to the other side of the sea and get it for us, so that we may hear it and observe it? For the word is very near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart, so that you may do it."​

Deut 32:3-4 asserts:

NWT: "For I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he."​


Setting up the Jewish people for failure would be the opposite of justice, the opposite of faithfulness. God tells the Jewish people the commandments are not too difficult; God's word is very near, and they can do it. Intentionally exacerbating sin makes God a liar, unjust, and unfaithful. How can this be?

Thank you,

-------------------------------------------

Christians and fellow RF'ians: What do you think of this idea that God of the bible who claims to be just and faithful setup the Jewish people to fail for many generations for the sole purpose of bringing a redeemer?
Knowing they would fail is not the same as causing them to fail. God WAS faithful. We never fully are.
 
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amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Christians and fellow RF'ians: What do you think of this idea that God of the bible who claims to be just and faithful setup the Jewish people to fail for many generations for the sole purpose of bringing a redeemer?

Although I've heard / read similar arguments about what God supposedly did, but I think the verses you quoted look like they would counter those sorts of arguments. Somewhere in the NT, I think it also tries to make Jewish law into something like a 'stumbling block,' or 'stumbling stone' or something like that. That seems like the same sort of thing, and your verses probably would work against those arguments as well.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
I wouldn't use Christianity as a measure of Jewish belief.
Thank you. I'm not.

Christians and Jews share a scripture which describes God as just and faithful. This is not, in my view, compatible with intentionally exacerbating sin. That's the point of this thread.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
@Kenny , @Wildswanderer ,

It sounds like neither of you agree with the idea that God intentionally exacerbated sin?
Well I think there might be a misunderstanding of what the law was for.

5 See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the Lord my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it. 6 Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.”
Deuteronomy 4

But was anyone ever really justified by keeping the law?
Galatians 3:11 says, “Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for ‘The righteous shall live by faith."

That's directly from Habakkuk

“Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him,

but the righteous shall live by his faith.

And in Romans:
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”

Even under the law people were still justified by faith. So if someone kept every part of the law, it still would not be enough for salvation.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Thank you. I'm not.

Christians and Jews share a scripture which describes God as just and faithful. This is not, in my view, compatible with intentionally exacerbating sin. That's the point of this thread.

Then why do you think Jews failed?
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
It's not like that.
We have the ten commandments...and they are the law. Then there is the eleventh commandment which is Love, and implies that Christendom must live according to a project of unity, solidarity, cooperation, altruism.
God is a savior in the sense that we all sin, and so we need a Savior that forgives us.
That grants us salvation. Even the holiest saints are sinners, no matter how slight their sins are.
There are 613 commandments, not just 10. God gave these commandments to Israel, not to the world. "And God say to Moses, Speak to the Children of Israel, saying..." not to the world. These 613 commandments do include some that are universal in nature, like thou shalt not kill, steal, commit adultery... But for example, Israel is to keep the Sabbath and non-Jews do not need to do this.

The idea of being loving is not something new that Jesus taught. It is right there in the Torah. The rabbis teach that all the commandments can be grouped under one of two large commandments: "Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength," and "Love your neighbor as yourself." Indeed, some 30 years before Jesus, Hillel summed it up as follows: "What is hateful to you do not do to others. This is the WHOLE Torah. All the rest is commentary. Now go study the commentary." So Jesus taught nothing new.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
So Jesus taught nothing new.
Matthew 5:17 confirms he taught nothing new.

Nevertheless we Christians have a completely different notion of hamartiology and soteriology (sin and salvation), I guess.
For instance, I was raised a Catholic and Catholics are not literalists, at all, as for the Ancient Testament. They re-interpret it, especially as for the law of Moses.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Then why do you think Jews failed?
The point of this thread is:

Is it just to give someone instructions, encourage them, tell them "it's not too difficult", then intentionally make it so difficult that the person is forced to ask for assistance?

It's a morality and ethics question.

Let's say you want to teach your grandchild to ask for help, you think they're too independent and stubborn and arrogant such that they never acknowledge when they need assistance with a task.

So, you make a rule and tell your grandchild:

"I want you to learn to clean your room, There's several good reasons for this. Every morning after breakfast before you go to school there's 30 minutes of time. That's plenty of time to clean your room. It won't be too difficult for you. You can do it. If your room isn't clean, you will be punished. You can't be late for school, you only have 30 minutes, but that's plenty of time, I have faith in you."​

Your grandchild loves you, wants you to be pleased, accepts the directive onto themself. To be sure that the rule is followed they write down the rule word for word. In order to be sure that the room is clean, they take extra care of their room the night before. They plan in advance, get everything ready the night before. They contemplate what it means to have a clean room, not wanting to miss any possible detail. And each morning after breakfast, they successfully tidy up their room, making it clean per the directions.

Each morning for a week, you check your grandchild's room, and even though they followed the directions, you are not happy. You wanted them to fail, so that they would learn the lesson that they need to ask for help sometimes. So, the following week, during breakfast, you go into the child's room, and trash it. What ever planning and preparations the child made are now meaningless. The room cannot be cleaned before going to school. Part of the directions given ( please see above ) are "You cannot be late for school". So the child tidies up as best they can, and goes to school, confused about who messed up their room.

The child comes home and their mother is waiting for them. She tells the child ( similar to the prophets in the bible stories )

"Your grandfather is very cross with you. Your room wasn't clean before going to school. You broke your grandfather's rule and now you will be punished."
And the child explains:

"There must be some mistake or misunderstanding, I did my best, I cleaned up my room the night before, but someone went in there and messed it up during breakfast. I went to school on time like he asked, and I tidied up for the entire time I had. Grandfather said it wouldn't be too difficult, if he knew someone sabatoged my room, he will surely understand. Grandfather is just and has faith in me. He told me it wouldn't be too difficult for me."
And the mother says:

"Your grandfather refuses to speak to you, he told me, that you know the rules, you broke the rules, and he won't speak to you again until you follow the rules."
So the grandchild consults the rule as it's written:
  • Grandfather wants me to learn to clean my room
  • In between breakfast and school I will clean my room for 30 minutes
  • Don't be late to school
  • If the room isn't clean I will be punished
The grandchild starts to cry. Surely if they cry loud enough and long enough their Grandfather will have pity on them, and they can discuss the situation. The grandchild cries all night, but the grandfather refuses to speak to them.

For years this goes on, the grandchild does their best, tidies their room the night before, makes all the preparations, but during breakfast, Grandfather goes in and trashes the room. The room isn't clean, the child goes to school. When they come home it might be their mother, their father, their brother, sister, aunt or uncle who comes to reprimand the child. And the child cries every night begging for mercy.

Eventually, Grandfather sends a neighbor to talk to the child. The nieghbor stops the child on their way home from school and asks them what's wrong. The child explains:

"My Grandfather refuses to speak to me, he wants me to clean my room before school. So I do my best to make it nice the night before so I can follow his rule in the morning. But every morning during breakfast someone is messing it up, and I can't clean it myself. He also wants me to go to school on time, and I've been doing that, but the room isn't perfectly clean. I've been crying out to my Grandfather every night, but he won't listen."
So the neighbor suggests:

"Maybe if you had some help cleaning your room in the morning. Then you could follow the rule?"
The child responds:

"I wrote down the rule when it was given, I am supposed to clean my room myself. He didn't tell me to ask for help. Grandfather wants me to learn to do it. He said it would not be too difficult."
The neighbor says:

"It sounds to me like it is too difficult. Try this, after breakfast ask your brother and sister to help you clean your room so it's perfect, then your Grandfather will forgive you and speak to you again."
The child responds:

"But that would be breaking the rules. I'm supposed to clean my room."
The neighbor says:

"You've already broken the rules, try it and see what happens."
The child agrees. The next morning, the room gets trashed during breakfast. But with assistance the room gets clean. When the child comes home from school, and Grandfather is waiting. The child explains:

"Grandfather, I'm sorry that my room hasn't been clean all these years. I tried to follow your rule as best i could, but someone kept sabatoging it."
Grandfather responds:

"Yes, that was me. I've been trashing your room all these years. I wanted you to learn an important lesson. Sometimes you need to ask for help."
The child responds:

"But you told *me* to do it. You wanted me to break the rule? How is that fair? You told me it wouldn't be too difficult. You lied to me? You refused to speak to me all this time. All you had to do was tell me your true intention, and I would have asked for help a long time ago."
Grandfather responds:

"Yes I lied to you, yes you were supposed to break the rule."
The child has nothing to say. Their Grandfather isn't who they thought; he is a cruel liar and a cheat. The rule is meaningless, they stop cleaning their room, they stop going to school on time, and they stop listening to their Grandfather.
 
Last edited:

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
@Kenny , @Wildswanderer ,

It sounds like neither of you agree with the idea that God intentionally exacerbated sin?
As I said, it is in the wording.

exacerbate:
  1. To increase the severity, violence, or bitterness of; aggravate.
  2. To render more violent or bitter; to irritate; to exasperate; to embitter, as passions or disease.
I don't think that is what He did. But rather clearly delineated what sin was so as to leave no doubt in anyone's mind. Certainly people do tend to make sin "acceptable" so as to not feel condemned.

Perhaps it was the wrong word to describe what He did?

In what way do you think that Wildswanderer and I disagree?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
The point of this thread is:

Is it just to give someone instructions, encourage them, tell them "it's not too difficult", then intentionally make it so difficult that the person is forced to ask for assistance?

It's a morality and ethics question.

Let's say you want to teach your grandchild to ask for help, you think they're too independent and stubborn and arrogant such that they never acknowledge when they need assistance with a task.

So, you make a rule and tell your grandchild:

"I want you to learn to clean your room, There's several good reasons for this. Every morning after breakfast before you go to school there's 30 minutes of time. That's plenty of time to clean your room. It won't be too difficult for you. You can do it. If your room isn't clean, you will be punished. You can't be late for school, you only have 30 minutes, but that's plenty of time, I have faith in you."​

Your grandchild loves you, wants you to be pleased, accepts the directive onto themself. To be sure that the rule is followed they write down the rule word for word. In order to be sure that the room is clean, they take extra care of their room the night before. They plan in advance, get everything ready the night before. They contemplate what it means to have a clean room, not wanting to miss any possible detail. And each morning after breakfast, they successfully tidy up their room, making it clean per the directions.

Each morning for a week, you check your grandchild's room, and even though they followed the directions, you are not happy. You wanted them to fail, so that they would learn the lesson that they need to ask for help sometimes. So, the following week, during breakfast, you go into the child's room, and trash it. What ever planning and preparations the child made are now meaningless. The room cannot be cleaned before going to school. Part of the directions given ( please see above ) are "You cannot be late for school". So the child tidies up as best they can, and goes to school, confused about who messed up their room.

The child comes home and their mother is waiting for them. She tells the child ( similar to the prophets in the bible stories )

"Your grandfather is very cross with you. Your room wasn't clean before going to school. You broke your grandfather's rule and now you will be punished."
And the child explains:

"There must be some mistake or misunderstanding, I did my best, I cleaned up my room the night before, but someone went in there and messed it up during breakfast. I went to school on time like he asked, and I tidied up for the entire time I had. Grandfather said it wouldn't be too difficult, if he knew someone sabatoged my room, he will surely understand. Grandfather is just and has faith in me. He told me it wouldn't be too difficult for me."
And the mother says:

"Your grandfather refuses to speak to you, he told me, that you know the rules, you broke the rules, and he won't speak to you again until you follow the rules."
So the grandchild consults the rule as it's written:
  • Grandfather wants me to learn to clean my room
  • In between breakfast and school I will clean my room for 30 minutes
  • Don't be late to school
  • If the room isn't clean I will be punished
The grandchild starts to cry. Surely if they cry loud enough and long enough their Grandfather will have pity on them, and they can discuss the situation. The grandchild cries all night, but the grandfather refuses to speak to them.

For years this goes on, the grandchild does their best, tidies their room the night before, makes all the preparations, but during breakfast, Grandfather goes in and trashes the room. The room isn't clean, the child goes to school. When they come home it might be their mother, their father, their brother, sister, aunt or uncle who comes to reprimand the child. And the child cries every night begging for mercy.

Eventually, Grandfather sends a neighbor to talk to the child. The nieghbor stops the child on their way home from school and asks them what's wrong. The child explains:

"My Grandfather refuses to speak to me, he wants me to clean my room before school. So I do my best to make it nice the night before so I can follow his rule in the morning. But every morning during breakfast someone is messing it up, and I can't clean it myself. He also wants me to go to school on time, and I've been doing that, but the room isn't perfectly clean. I've been crying out to my Grandfather every night, but he won't listen."
So the neighbor suggests:

"Maybe if you had some help cleaning your room in the morning. Then you could follow the rule?"
The child responds:

"I wrote down the rule when it was given, I am supposed to clean my room myself. He didn't tell me to ask for help. Grandfather wants me to learn to do it. He said it would not be too difficult."
The neighbor says:

"It sounds to me like it is too difficult. Try this, after breakfast ask your brother and sister to help you clean your room so it's perfect, then your Grandfather will forgive you and speak to you again."
The child responds:

"But that would be breaking the rules. I'm supposed to clean my room."
The neighbor says:

"You've already broken the rules, try it and see what happens."
The child agrees. The next morning, the room gets trashed during breakfast. But with assistance the room gets clean. When the child comes home from school, and Grandfather is waiting. The child explains:

"Grandfather, I'm sorry that my room hasn't been clean all these years. I tried to follow your rule as best i could, but someone kept sabatoging it."
Grandfather responds:

"Yes, that was me. I've been trashing your room all these years. I wanted you to learn an important lesson. Sometimes you need to ask for help."
The child responds:

"But you told *me* to do it. You wanted me to break the rule? How is that fair? You told me it wouldn't be too difficult. You lied to me? You refused to speak to me all this time. All you had to do was tell me your true intention, and I would have asked for help a long time ago."
Grandfather responds:

"Yes I lied to you, yes you were supposed to break the rule."
The child has nothing to say. Their Grandfather isn't who they thought; he is a cruel liar and a cheat. The rule is meaningless, they stop cleaning their room, they stop going to school on time, and they stop listening to their Grandfather.

I thought Jews were given a way to pay for their transgressions/sins.
They made their sin payment and were square with God.
They ideal of course is to follow the law. But if they happened to break the law, they were given the means to redeem themselves.
So the only way they could fail is if they refused to make payment for their transgressions.

Where in the Tanakh were Jews advised they should break God's laws?

Don't Jews pray to God to fulfill their needs daily?
It seems to me that Jews are covered by their theology.
They ask for help, they redeem themselves or at least have the means to. What else were they supposed to do?
 
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