-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
EXACTLY, What Is The Soul?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
I can't help but think this doesn't really mean anything. A lot of metaphysical stuff is just like this -- lots of words, no real meat to them.
It certainly does not say what the soul "is," because, being something that is pure "spirit" it has no real-world existence.
In order to act on the brain -- to any effect whatever on the brain, and therefore the person whose brain it is -- it must have some means of communicating with that brain. This requires making physical changes to that brain -- something that seems quite impossible since the soul apparently has no existence within physical reality. Only within something else, not known to exist, that some would seem to think of as "spiritual reality."
Yes, well humans have imagined no end of ridiculous things, haven't they?
No.
For example, action of other planets on earth differs when you talk to an astronomer or an astrologer.
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
"Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.
My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.
He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound’s the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
--Robert Frost
I wonder if we could come at this question outta left field.
Or try. Try 3 or 4 pitches from left field.
We sense a something more, some timeless deeper part of ourselves or nature or being or time.
"I see young men, my townsmen, whose misfortune it is to have inherited farms, houses, barns, cattle, and farming tools; for these are more easily acquired than got rid of. Better if they had been born in the open pasture and suckled by a wolf, that they might have seen with clearer eyes what field they were called to labor in. Who made them serfs of the soil? Why should they eat their sixty acres, when man is condemned to eat only his peck of dirt? Why should they begin digging their graves as soon as they are born?...
How many a poor immortal soul have I met well-nigh crushed and smothered under its load, creeping down the road of life, pushing before it a barn seventy-five feet by forty, its Augean stables never cleansed, and one hundred acres of land, tillage, mowing, pasture, and woodlot! The portionless, who struggle with no such unnecessary inherited encumbrances, find it labor enough to subdue and cultivate a few cubic feet of flesh. But men labor under a mistake. The better part of the man is soon ploughed into the soil for compost...."
Henry David Thoreau
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/triumphnationalism/expansion/text7/economy.pdf
If we get knocked off the ordinary (norm) track, then we might not want to get back on that track:
Ain't there somethin' better?
Something.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.
My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.
He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound’s the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
--Robert Frost
I wonder if we could come at this question outta left field.
Or try. Try 3 or 4 pitches from left field.We sense a something more, some timeless deeper part of ourselves or nature or being or time.
"I see young men, my townsmen, whose misfortune it is to have inherited farms, houses, barns, cattle, and farming tools; for these are more easily acquired than got rid of. Better if they had been born in the open pasture and suckled by a wolf, that they might have seen with clearer eyes what field they were called to labor in. Who made them serfs of the soil? Why should they eat their sixty acres, when man is condemned to eat only his peck of dirt? Why should they begin digging their graves as soon as they are born?...
How many a poor immortal soul have I met well-nigh crushed and smothered under its load, creeping down the road of life, pushing before it a barn seventy-five feet by forty, its Augean stables never cleansed, and one hundred acres of land, tillage, mowing, pasture, and woodlot! The portionless, who struggle with no such unnecessary inherited encumbrances, find it labor enough to subdue and cultivate a few cubic feet of flesh. But men labor under a mistake. The better part of the man is soon ploughed into the soil for compost...."
Henry David Thoreau
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/triumphnationalism/expansion/text7/economy.pdf
If we get knocked off the ordinary (norm) track, then we might not want to get back on that track:
Ain't there somethin' better?
Something.
Last edited:
WhyIsThatSo
Well-Known Member
The human being is a tripartite (3 parts) being......body, soul, and spirit.
Most people confuse soul and spirit, as being the same thing.....they are not.
All living things that have the breath of life are "souls"....this is the temporary form of being
the soul is mortal, it can die......and does die , but is born again from one incarnation to the next.
The spirit, which is WHO AND WHAT WE REALLY ARE, is immortal, eternal, and never dies......because it CANNOT die
the soul is the "counterfeit spirit", that follows us after death ( in the "afterlife" ) and leads us astray...
unless you KNOW who you are
Most people confuse soul and spirit, as being the same thing.....they are not.
All living things that have the breath of life are "souls"....this is the temporary form of being
the soul is mortal, it can die......and does die , but is born again from one incarnation to the next.
The spirit, which is WHO AND WHAT WE REALLY ARE, is immortal, eternal, and never dies......because it CANNOT die
the soul is the "counterfeit spirit", that follows us after death ( in the "afterlife" ) and leads us astray...
unless you KNOW who you are
EXACTLY who wants to know?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The soul works through the brain and mind while we are alive in a physical body, so it can be seen in our thoughts and emotions. My point was that it is the soul that allows the brain matter to function. Without the soul we would be as dead beings
That is why I said that the NATURE of the soul is a mystery. There is no way to describe the soul's nature. All we can say is how it expresses itself.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
So is the one!
You: We are all the one. (to that effect)
Me: Two!
You are doing an over-reductive claim to oneness.
Reality can never be one, because other humans can do differently than you.
So different is the same as one. That is absurd. Meaningful and absurd is the same as one. Again nothing but absurdity.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
That is your view. 'Suvarna ekam, bahu bhushanani", (Gold is one thing but ornaments are many).
Answer from Chandogya Upanishad:
"Yatha Soumya, ekena mritpindena sarvam mrinmayam vijnatam syat,
vacharambhena vikaro namadheyam mritiketyeva satyam."
(O young one, just as by one clod of clay all that is made of clay is known,
names being distortions in the matter of speaking, verily, clay alone is the truth).
Sage Uddalaka Aruni clarifying doubts of his son, Satyaketu.
Also in the same book, the famous Hindu saying:
"Tat Twam Asi" (You are that, or in olde English as it is generally reported - "Thou art that").
Should we accept untruth if it is more flowery?
Answer from Chandogya Upanishad:
"Yatha Soumya, ekena mritpindena sarvam mrinmayam vijnatam syat,
vacharambhena vikaro namadheyam mritiketyeva satyam."
(O young one, just as by one clod of clay all that is made of clay is known,
names being distortions in the matter of speaking, verily, clay alone is the truth).
Sage Uddalaka Aruni clarifying doubts of his son, Satyaketu.
Also in the same book, the famous Hindu saying:
"Tat Twam Asi" (You are that, or in olde English as it is generally reported - "Thou art that").
Should we accept untruth if it is more flowery?
Last edited:
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Since the soul comes into being at the moment of conception from the joining of the sperm and egg, it must have a hereditary counterpart. Much of what makes us who we are comes also from our early life experiences, but it is the soul that is affected, not the body. The body is pure matter with no identity.
You won't see signs of a soul because the soul is invisible. It is like a stage director that works behind the scenes throughout your life and after death, for all eternity.
I agree, but the question is what makes us sad. Is it simply chemical reactions in the brain or is it something more? I am saying that it is the soul that makes us happy or sad, the soul working through the brain and mind.
I do not believe that animals have a rational soul like humans because they cannot reason in the abstract like humans or know and worship God, but animals clearly they have a personality and a spirit. What happens to that spirit after they dies us a subject of much controversy among believers. I believe it continues to exist in some fashion.
That is also one of my pet peeves, the religious belief that humans are so superior to animals, special.One of my bugbears - anything (like lack of souls in other animals) that tends to separate us from all other life.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I believe that the Bible does bot support this definition.
The first souls were created when a physical body joined with the breath of God. The Bible says they became Living souls. Obviously then without both factors, life, and a physical body, a soul does not exist.
The immaterial part of the person is personality, memories, knowledge. These exist with God, to be reunited with the soul once again at Gods will.
The very first lie ever told was "you will not die", i.e. you have an immortal soul, you can never die.
From this has been extrapolated eternal hell where people are burned and punished forever.
So, God wants to eradicate sin in his creation, yet He preserves part of it to put sinful people and commit everlasting atrocities on them. Which in it's ugliness is unfair. A person in hell 5,000 years ago has been tortured 5,000 years more than someone who dies today. Thus their sins, though maybe less severe, nets them 5,000 more years of torture.
A God of infinite justice cannot do this, it is unjust. A God of infinite mercy cannot support eternal pain and torture, it is totally unmerciful.
The person who chooses to reject God, receives capital punishment, they cease to exist, forever.
God will remain, infinitely just, infinitely merciful, Forever.
Sin, and the poor bodies ravaged by it will cease to exist. They will sleep forever, by Gods mercy.
Oh, hell, no !!!, at least as many believe it is.
Since the soul comes into being at the moment of conception from the joining of the sperm and egg, it must have a hereditary counterpart. Much of what makes us who we are comes also from our early life experiences, but it is the soul that is affected, not the body. The body is pure matter with no identity.
You won't see signs of a soul because the soul is invisible. It is like a stage director that works behind the scenes throughout your life and after death, for all eternity.
I agree, but the question is what makes us sad. Is it simply chemical reactions in the brain or is it something more? I am saying that it is the soul that makes us happy or sad, the soul working through the brain and mind.
I do not believe that animals have a rational soul like humans because they cannot reason in the abstract like humans or know and worship God, but animals clearly they have a personality and a spirit. What happens to that spirit after they dies us a subject of much controversy among believers. I believe it continues to exist in some fashion.
That is also one of my pet peeves, the religious belief that humans are so superior to animals, special.
Well at least we agree on one thing - the last point.
But I think you are probably wrong about them not being able to reason, given that many are capable of solving problems that are not natural to their normal environments.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The physical brain is pure matter with no identity whereas the soul is our identity, the sum total of the personality.
We cannot see and study the soul like we can see the brain, but the soul is working behind the scenes and,allowing our body to function.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I was not implying that animals have no reasoning ability, only that they do not have the same ability to reason in as humans. Clearly there are things we do not yet know about animals, science is constantly evolving.Well at least we agree on one thing - the last point.
But I think you are probably wrong about them not being able to reason, given that many are capable of solving problems that are not natural to their normal environments.
I believe certain things as an aspect of theology, but haven't the least clue if observed manifestations reveal a soul or not. I too consider it a mystery.
Happy Birthday!So is the one!
You: We are all the one. (to that effect)
Me: Two!
You are doing an over-reductive claim to oneness.
Reality can never be one, because other humans can do differently than you.
So different is the same as one. That is absurd. Meaningful and absurd is the same as one. Again nothing but absurdity.
WhyIsThatSo
Well-Known Member
The "god of this world", the one who created it in "error" (flawed)…..is "just" (lawful) and "evil" (divisive)..
The True God, the Unknowable Incomprehensible One, the "Father" alone.... is "GOOD"
Thus the "knowledge of good and evil "
That's OK and I wish you well. I do see it as an important aspect of our existence.
RegardsTony