EXACTLY, What Is The Soul?

[Trailblazer]

By "cannot see it" you mean, "have no means of detecting it." And yet, clearly, this is quite false, since in order to have any impact upon our physically real body, it is required to interact with it. This interaction is exactly the same thing having means to detect.

In order to have any impact upon our physically real body, the soul is required to interact with it but that does not mean that we have the means to detect the soul interacting with the physical body..... We have no instruments that can detect the soul.

Anyway, you beliefs are yours. I am just not capable of believing anything that contradicts that which I already know to be true. For me, if there is no possible way for "the soul" to interact with the body, then either the soul doesn't exist, or has nothing to do with anything, anyway. And can therefore be safely ignored.

I believe there is a way for "the soul" to interact with the body but we cannot know what that way is. since the soul is a mystery. But I understand that atheists do not like mysteries..

 

[Skwim]

Seems like the KJV translators got somewhat confused. Look at the following passage:

Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

The same word is translated as both LIFE and SOUL.

Why the inconsistency?

The ESV is just as inconsistent as the KJV.

However, the YLT, RV, ISV, and LEB all use only the word LIFE throughout the passage.

And that's one of the neat things about the Bible. One has all these options so as to make the scriptures say just about anything one wants.

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[Trailblazer]

I think everything depends on how one defines spirit and soul, and it can get complicated too.
Or rather, we can make it more complicated than it needs to be.

"spirit" = WILL (free will....the power of choice, and "creation" )
"soul" = INSTINCT (animal instinct....primarily in the form of survival )

The "soul" part of us is what keeps us bound (enslaved) to this flesh (body)...
The "spirit" part of us is what sets us free from it.

Other than saying the soul = animal instinct, I can agree with you, so I would say:

The animal instinct part of us is what keeps us bound (enslaved) to this flesh (body)...
The "spirit" part of us (free will....the power of choice, and "creation" ) is what sets us free from it.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In order to have any impact upon our physically real body, the soul is required to interact with it but that does not mean that we have the means to detect the soul interacting with the physical body..... We have no instruments that can detect the soul.

I believe there is a way for "the soul" to interact with the body but we cannot know what that way is. since the soul is a mystery. But I understand that atheists do not like mysteries..

Yes, I know what you believe. However, it completely ignores any notion of science.

Yes, I'm well aware that a lot of religious believers dislike science (or at the very least know very, very little about it). But the fact is, science is what allows you to do almost everything you do today -- including live a longer life than your ancestors did, communicate with all of us over the internet, drive a car, watch television, immunize your children against potentially awful diseases, preserve food for later, and a whole host of other things that make your life what it is.

And for the record, atheists do not dislike "mysteries" any more than anyone else does. But unlike theists, who get on their knees and kowtow to everything that appears vaguely like a mystery, we try to find out more about it.

There is, I hate to say it, a reason that there is a negative correlation between religiosity and intelligence and education.

 

[Trailblazer]

And that's one of the neat things about the Bible. One has all these options so as to make the scriptures say just about anything one wants.

In would hardly call the ability to bend and twist neat.

 

[Skwim]

EXACTLY who wants to know?

Oh no you don't. Like Superman before Lois Lane's blabbering, my true identity shall remain strictly confidential.

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[Skwim]

In would hardly call the ability to bend and twist neat.

But it's more than that. It's a form of Cherry Picking par excellence.

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[Skwim]

Whatever is no longer present when a person is dead.

Then its a heart beat and breathing?

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[Evangelicalhumanist]

Then its a heart beat and breathing?

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And neurological function...

 

[Nakosis]

Then its a heart beat and breathing?

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Well psyche, Greek maybe Hebrew Breath.

Sometime back in the 16th century, we borrowed the word psyche directly from Greek into English. In Greek mythology, Psyche was a beautiful princess who fell in love with Eros (Cupid), god of love, and went through terrible trials before being allowed to marry him. The story is often understood to be about the soul redeeming itself through love. (To the Greeks, psyche also meant "butterfly", which suggests how they imagined the soul.) In English, psyche often sounds less spiritual than soul, less intellectual than mind, and more private than personality.

I remember reading about people thinking whatever animates a person. I'd probably call it mind, basically the central nervous system that is actively processing information. Oxygen/blood providing the fuel for the energy to keep it working. They understood something was missing from a body that was dead, just not exactly what. An unknown to them, the soul.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, I know what you believe. However, it completely ignores any notion of science

True religion does not ignore science; religion is just outside the purview of science. Science addresses the material world and what we need to survive and live comfortably, including protecting our natural environment; religion addresses morals and values and what we need to acquire by way of character in order to get along with other people.

An essential Baha’i teaching is the harmony of science and religion. That does not mean that science and religion are the same as religion addresses morality and the spiritual virtues we need to acquire whereas science addresses the material world and the practical needs of man for living on earth. Science and religion are different domains of knowledge but religion should not contradict science. It is a Baha’i teaching that if religion contradicts science it is no more than superstition.

Yes, I'm well aware that a lot of religious believers dislike science (or at the very least know very, very little about it). But the fact is, science is what allows you to do almost everything you do today -- including live a longer life than your ancestors did, communicate with all of us over the internet, drive a car, watch television, immunize your children against potentially awful diseases, preserve food for later, and a whole host of other things that make your life what it is.

It is not true that all religious believers dislike science, as many Baha'is are scientists.
The Baha'i Faith teaches that religion and science are both necessary for humans to survive and thrive in the world.

“Now, all questions of morality contained in the spiritual, immutable law of every religion are logically right. If religion were contrary to logical reason then it would cease to be a religion and be merely a tradition. Religion and science are the two wings upon which man’s intelligence can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of materialism...” Paris Talks, p. 143

And for the record, atheists do not dislike "mysteries" any more than anyone else does. But unlike theists, who get on their knees and kowtow to everything that appears vaguely like a mystery, we try to find out more about it.

I would consider lumping all theists into a category a hasty generalization and as such it is a logical fallacy.
Theists also seek to know more about what they can know about, we simply accept what we cannot know about.

There is, I hate to say it, a reason that there is a negative correlation between religiosity and intelligence and education.

Lower levels of education might apply to the very religious, the fanatics who throw out science and reason, but it does not apply to all believers, and I don't think there is any research that shows that atheists are more intelligent than believers.

 

[Skwim]

And neurological function...

Yup, two of those things that qualify as no longer present when a person is dead, which qualifies them as souls.

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[Trailblazer]

Picking

Yeah, that too.....
Christians have a bushel full of cherries.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Theists also seek to know more about what they can know about, we simply accept what we cannot know about.

And this is central, in my view. I do not think that theists "accept what we cannot know about." I think, rather, that they invent a mythology that pretends to explain what they don't know.

 

[Trailblazer]

And this is central, in my view. I do not think that theists "accept what we cannot know about." I think, rather, that they invent a mythology that pretends to explain what they don't know.

That might be true for some Christians but it is not true for Baha'is, Imo.

 

[firedragon]

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Consider.

soul
/sōl/

Learn to pronounce

noun
noun: soul; plural noun: souls
1.the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.

​

Easily said, but just what is the nature of this immortal spiritual or immaterial part of a human being?

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Some of the best or rather more interesting answers will be found in philosophy.

 

[atanu]

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EXACTLY, What Is The Soul?
(Easily said, but just what is the nature of this immortal spiritual or immaterial part of a human being?)

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EXACTLY who wants to know?

I asked "Exactly who wants to know?", without expecting an answer. I want to clarify that my question was not meant as an affront, but it was to highlight that the 'subject -- I am" cannot be pointed out as an object and declared "This is the soul" or "This is I".

The "subject-I am" cannot be pointed as an object and the matter is further complicated by application of diverse terms to point to the subject as 'Soul', Self', Atman ... etc.. Actually one just needs to discriminate the subject (seer) from the objects (the seen). But this process of discrimination may not be easy or may not be of interest to all. However, if one is sincere and is eager to know EXACTLY, What Is The Soul?, one must persevere and drill down to the pure subject, stripped of all attributes.

For example, I play many roles and I don different kinds of bodies in waking, dreaming, and sleep states. But what is actually the nature of the subject "I" common to all these diverse and changeable forms?

...

 

[Ancient Soul]

There are 5 levels of Soul/Spirit at play in this world.

Vegetable
Animal
Human
Spirit of Faith, and
Holy Spirit.

The full explanation is here - Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

This is a short but detailed explanation;

Spirit, Soul, and Mind

1 Question: What is the difference between mind, spirit, and soul?

2 Answer: It was already explained that, in general, spirit is divided into five categories: the vegetable spirit, the animal spirit, the human spirit, the spirit of faith, and the Holy Spirit.

The vegetable spirit is that power of growth which is brought about in the seed through the influence of other created things.

The animal spirit is that all-embracing sensory power which is realized through the composition and combination of the elements. When this composition disintegrates, that spirit likewise perishes and becomes non-existent. It may be likened to this lamp: When oil, wick, and flame are brought together and combined, it is lit; and when this combination disintegrates—that is, when the constituent parts are separated from one another—the lamp also is extinguished.

The human spirit, which distinguishes man from the animal, is the rational soul, and these two terms—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one and the same thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is called the rational soul, encompasses all things and as far as human capacity permits, discovers their realities and becomes aware of the properties and effects, the characteristics and conditions of earthly things. But the human spirit, unless it be assisted by the spirit of faith, cannot become acquainted with the divine mysteries and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, bright, and polished, is still in need of light. Not until a sunbeam falls upon it can it discover the divine mysteries.

As for the mind, it is the power of the human spirit. The spirit is as the lamp, and the mind as the light that shines from it. The spirit is as the tree, and the mind as the fruit. The mind is the perfection of the spirit and a necessary attribute thereof, even as the rays of the sun are an essential requirement of the sun itself.

This explanation, however brief, is complete. Reflect upon it and, God willing, you will grasp the details. Link - Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

There is quite a bit on this subject in the Baha'i Writings.

Regards Tony

If you hadn't let your religion make you so spiritually broken you would be able to see how false all that gobbledygook was.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Of course I've wondered - I probably still have an Eysenck paperback from the 1960s when I first became interested in psychology and what makes us tick. Current evidence seems to suggest that much comes from our parents (genes), whilst some probably comes from our early environment and what we experience - hence so many disorders often coming from such. No signs of a soul to me. The soul is an unnecessary addition to personality and character - which are hardly fixed - and presumably where many believe the soul to be such.

I think it is the simple sadness of loss that accounts for our grief, and something that usually fades with time, for most, even if the memories will usually remain to lessen our sadness. Death of someone always reminds us of our own eventual death, so doubly troubling.

I would suspect that most pet owners (including yourself) would assign a personality to their pets, differentiating them from other pets they have or just recognising that they don't just react 'like dumb animals'. Would this indicate the existence of souls within, or perhaps more like other animals having many features common to us - that is, different personalities and characters (because they have intelligence and thinking to some extent), and hence different behaviours?

One of my bugbears - anything (like lack of souls in other animals) that tends to separate us from all other life.

Yes, ALL living beings have souls or they would not be alive. It only comes from the ego of mankind that calls them lowly "animals" and says they have no souls, to make themselves feel superior.

 

[Ancient Soul]

The KJV translates the word psuchē as SOUL 39 times and the same word as LIFE 36 times.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

According to the KJV in the above passage, the SOUL and body can be destroyed in Gehenna (fire).. An immortal soul is a deathless soul and therefore can not be destroyed.

When correctly understood, the above passage is saying that God only can kill both your LIFE and body by casting you into Gehenna fire. Man, on the other hand, can only kill your body. God can raise up the LIFE of the body along with the body, which man cannot do.

I always find it funny how the bible mythology is all about "saving" everyone's "soul", but in all of it's 774,746 meaningless words, there is not even a clear description of what a soul even is. Now you would think that something so damn important to the bible "god", there would be pages that clearly describes what it really is. But it has NOTHING. All because MAN had everything to do with it's writing and God had nothing to do with it.