EXACTLY, What Is The Soul?

[Ancient Soul]

The only thing that separates most humans from animals is the "spirit". Animals do not have a "spirit", they are only "souls".
I say "most humans", because there are some humans that do not possess "spirit" either....only "soul".

These are the "human animals".

That's incorrect.

There really is no separation or one without the other of a soul and "spirit". For "spirit" is just a manifestation of the soul. Kind of like the "personality" of the soul.

I think what you are getting at is some people who act more like "animals" than civilized people. That's because their souls have spiritually evolved enough to move up to be given a human form/container, but at a lower spiritual level than those who have been thru many human life cycles.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I was not implying that animals have no reasoning ability, only that they do not have the same ability to reason in as humans. Clearly there are things we do not yet know about animals, science is constantly evolving.

OK. Another point I should have added, and perhaps mentioned elsewhere, is how does one explain the sudden appearance of the soul in our past - given that we have evolved as hominids and are so related to all other life. Presuming that you do accept much of what science tells us concerning this. At what point did we get souls when supposedly others in our history didn't have them? A gift from God? This is just too messy to consider, in my view.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yes, ALL living beings have souls or they would not be alive. It only comes from the ego of mankind that calls them lowly "animals" and says they have no souls, to make themselves feel superior.

Well it either has to be no souls or souls for all in my view, since it hardly makes sense otherwise, but it is the former for me.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

OK. Another point I should have added, and perhaps mentioned elsewhere, is how does one explain the sudden appearance of the soul in our past - given that we have evolved as hominids and are so related to all other life. Presuming that you do accept much of what science tells us concerning this. At what point did we get souls when supposedly others in our history didn't have them? A gift from God? This is just too messy to consider, in my view.

From what I understand Baha'u'llah has explained that humanity is very ancient, that many people have inhabited this earth before. Records have been lost. We are not the first civilisations of capacity.

We have always been born of the human spirit, but how we have evolved, is still being discovered by science.

Baha'u'llah also says we are not alone in the universe with this capacity.

Regards Tony

 

[Mock Turtle]

From what I understand Baha'u'llah has explained that humanity is very ancient, that many people have inhabited this earth before. Records have been lost. We are not the first civilisations of capacity.

We have always been born of the human spirit, but how we have evolved, is still being discovered by science.

Baha'u'llah also says we are not alone in the universe with this capacity.

Regards Tony

I'm sure it is true about the first, depending upon what one regards as 'human', for example, this news item:

The Earliest Sex Between Different Human Ancestors May Have Occurred 700,000 Years Ago

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are 5 levels of Soul/Spirit at play in this world.

Vegetable
Animal
Human
Spirit of Faith, and
Holy Spirit.

The full explanation is here - Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

This is a short but detailed explanation;

Spirit, Soul, and Mind

1 Question: What is the difference between mind, spirit, and soul?

2 Answer: It was already explained that, in general, spirit is divided into five categories: the vegetable spirit, the animal spirit, the human spirit, the spirit of faith, and the Holy Spirit.

The vegetable spirit is that power of growth which is brought about in the seed through the influence of other created things.

The animal spirit is that all-embracing sensory power which is realized through the composition and combination of the elements. When this composition disintegrates, that spirit likewise perishes and becomes non-existent. It may be likened to this lamp: When oil, wick, and flame are brought together and combined, it is lit; and when this combination disintegrates—that is, when the constituent parts are separated from one another—the lamp also is extinguished.

The human spirit, which distinguishes man from the animal, is the rational soul, and these two terms—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one and the same thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is called the rational soul, encompasses all things and as far as human capacity permits, discovers their realities and becomes aware of the properties and effects, the characteristics and conditions of earthly things. But the human spirit, unless it be assisted by the spirit of faith, cannot become acquainted with the divine mysteries and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, bright, and polished, is still in need of light. Not until a sunbeam falls upon it can it discover the divine mysteries.

As for the mind, it is the power of the human spirit. The spirit is as the lamp, and the mind as the light that shines from it. The spirit is as the tree, and the mind as the fruit. The mind is the perfection of the spirit and a necessary attribute thereof, even as the rays of the sun are an essential requirement of the sun itself.

This explanation, however brief, is complete. Reflect upon it and, God willing, you will grasp the details. Link - Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

There is quite a bit on this subject in the Baha'i Writings.

Regards Tony

Well it either has to be no souls or souls for all in my view, since it hardly makes sense otherwise, but it is the former for me.

I see there are 5 Levels of Spirit in this world.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

OK. Another point I should have added, and perhaps mentioned elsewhere, is how does one explain the sudden appearance of the soul in our past - given that we have evolved as hominids and are so related to all other life. Presuming that you do accept much of what science tells us concerning this. At what point did we get souls when supposedly others in our history didn't have them? A gift from God? This is just too messy to consider, in my view.

At some point during our evolution, when we became the human species, God endowed us with a soul.
You could call it a gift from God since the soul is what allows us to think rationally, create, invent. problem solve, and have these discussions.

 

[Mock Turtle]

At some point during our evolution, when we became the human species, God endowed us with a soul.
You could call it a gift from God since the soul is what allows us to think rationally, create, invent. problem solve, and have these discussions.

In that case I suspect my soul and I are not on speaking terms, and possibly accounts for my being deficient in most of these.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What ever.
Start here: This is about science:
Science has limits: A few things that science does not do

That educate yourself about how that is science!
Stop claiming I do it only as me. Educate yourself about methodological naturalism!!!

I'm perfectly aware of what methodological naturalism is, thanks.

I note you answered my questions with "whatever".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No.
For example, action of other planets on earth differs when you talk to an astronomer or an astrologer.

Myeah, not really what I mean, off course.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The physical brain is pure matter with no identity whereas the soul is our identity, the sum total of the personality.

This is just another bare claim.
I'm asking how one can tell the difference between "mind" and "brain". People talk about it as if they are 2 distinct entities / objects / things. But what is the justification for that?

How do you distinguish the "mind" from the "brain"? How does one demonstrate that these are 2 distinct things instead of 1 and the same thing?

It seems to me that that the mind and the brain are pretty much the same thing. Or at least, the mind is part of / produced by the brain, a function of the brain. And not a distinct entity by itself.

We cannot see and study the soul like we can see the brain

Then how do you know it exists as a distinct entity?

, but the soul is working behind the scenes and,allowing our body to function.

Just another repeat of the claim.
It seems to me that you can say the same about the brain and you'ld be correct.
So once again, what is the difference between "soul" and "brain"? How do you tell one from the other? How do you demonstrate these are two distinct things and not really just 1 thing that you call by different names depending on context?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm perfectly aware of what methodological naturalism is, thanks.

I note you answered my questions with "whatever".

Someone: What is a soul?
Me: With science: It is a word in regards to a belief some people use in connection with some forms of religion.
Someone: But what is a soul really?
Me: Science don't do what reality really is. Science uses methodological naturalism.
Someone: You haven't answered what it is!!!
Me: That is philosophy.

So, I answered you with whatever, because you can believe whatever you what to believe reality really is. And so can I. So what reality really is, is whatever someone believes.
And yes, that is the answer as good as it gets.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Someone: What is a soul?
Me: With science: It is a word in regards to a belief some people use in connection with some forms of religion.
Someone: But what is a soul really?
Me: Science don't do what reality really is. Science uses methodological naturalism.
Someone: You haven't answered what it is!!!
Me: That is philosophy.

So, I answered you with whatever, because you can believe whatever you what to believe reality really is. And so can I. So what reality really is, is whatever someone believes.
And yes, that is the answer as good as it gets.

In that case, I think I totally misunderstood what you were trying to communicate.
In which case I apologisze.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In that case, I think I totally misunderstood what you were trying to communicate.
In which case I apologisze.

And I didn't communicate well enough, so I apologize.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

That's incorrect.

There really is no separation or one without the other of a soul and "spirit". For "spirit" is just a manifestation of the soul. Kind of like the "personality" of the soul.

I think what you are getting at is some people who act more like "animals" than civilized people. That's because their souls have spiritually evolved enough to move up to be given a human form/container, but at a lower spiritual level than those who have been thru many human life cycles.

Trust me, I've been here many, many more times than you have...…"ancient soul".

 

[shmogie]

What Bible verses do you have that supports that belief?

I do not believe that any soul ever ceases to exist.

I believe that the soul (spirit) of man is immortal so it can never be extinguished. All souls continue to exist forever, but some souls have eternal life and others don’t.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2” Some Answered Questions, p. 223

“Likewise, the rewards of the other world are the eternal life which is clearly mentioned in all the Holy Books, the divine perfections, the eternal bounties and everlasting felicity….The rewards of the other world are peace, the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 224-225

Those people who are distant from God do not have eternal life, although their soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.” Some Answered Questions, p. 243

Over and over again in the NT the resurrection from the grave is shown to be extremely, extremely important. Why, if no one dies?

Paul says that if Christ was not resurrected from the grave, we believe cunningly devised tales. Why?

Eccl. 9:5 The living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.

Eccl. 9::10 All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for their is no work, nor devising, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in sheol ( the grave)

Ps 146:4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to the ground, in that day, all his thinking perishes.

Christ said that Lazarus was asleep, (in death), he said that a dead young girl was asleep. before he resurrected each. How could they be asleep if they were somewhere else ? Lazarus was a good friend and follower of Christ, so, if we are immortal, he must have gone to heaven. Seems cruel of Christ to jerk him back to earth, with all it.s pain?

There are other verses that confirm these.

The Bible says that that saying one never dies, is a lie (Genesis).

I believe the Bible. All die, and remain dead, with a few exceptions, till all are resurrected, judged, and those who have rejected God then are destroyed forever by fire.

 

[Heyo]

.

Consider.

soul
/sōl/

Learn to pronounce

noun
noun: soul; plural noun: souls
1.the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.

​

Easily said, but just what is the nature of this immortal spiritual or immaterial part of a human being?

.

From the submissions of the previous poster I conclude that the soul is an illusion. Everyone has the illusion to know what a soul is but no two descriptions agree and many contradict each other.

 

[halbhh]

From the submissions of the previous poster I conclude that the soul is an illusion. Everyone has the illusion to know what a soul is but no two descriptions agree and many contradict each other.

It is more helpful to come at something so subtle from a sort of left field or sideways glance, where one might recognize and then connect dots. Here's a try (post 65) --
EXACTLY, What Is The Soul?

 

[Heyo]

It is more helpful to come at something so subtle from a sort of left field or sideways glance, where one might recognize and then connect dots. Here's a try (post 65) --
EXACTLY, What Is The Soul?

Too far left field for me. I don't have the faintest idea what you want to say with that.

 

[halbhh]

Too far left field for me. I don't have the faintest idea what you want to say with that.

Well, when you have a moment like the rider in the carriage/sleigh, who stops for no obvious reason, and just is there with the falling snow....

....it's a thing I recognize. I've had that experience. It can happen anywhere, with anything, like a an afternoon reverie or seeing leaves fall from a tree or a sudden moment of pause that happens at times in life, where the normal concerns are....displaced, and instead something more timeless or remembered, is where you are at, at that moment.

People do it all the time. like: "I want to just sit and look at the water..."
That kind of thing.