Existence of God. Can debate satisfy atheist ?

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Theists belief that a god created everything around us is easily shot down. Because the world around us is the result of evolution. After the Asteroid hit the Earth and killed 75% of the species on Earth it left the Earth with a very different set of species to what has evolved today.

what did the earth look like in the cretaceous period - Google Search

No god created the world we live in today because the Earth has been in constant change since it's birth. That's evolution not any god.

 

[MikeF]

Here's a question.... Atheist will argue about a God they don't believe in...
If you don't believe in something..then it's waste of time to argue about something that you don't believe in..

When a Atheist ask for proof of evidence for the existence of God..
Then the Atheist is called into question by their own question..
The Atheist first has to give proof that God doesn't exist..
Before they can ask for the proof of evidence for the existence of God..

When I'm ask by a Atheist for the proof of evidence for the existence of God..

Then I ask the Atheist...your first called into question by your own question..

Before you can ask me for the proof of evidence for the existence of God..
You first must have the proof of evidence that God doesn't exist..before you can ask anyone for their proof that God exist..
It's that simple..

I would put aside the idea of believers and non-believers and instead think about what you are asking others to believe. If someone is looking for answers to questions like "Where do we come from?", "What is our purpose?", "What happens to us when we die?", how should they choose from the myriad of belief systems that are practiced today? The choice is not a simple or easy one. Many belief systems that are practiced today are mutually exclusive; adhering to one set of principles may disqualify you for the benefits of another belief system.
How is one to choose the correct belief system? Which one is true?

 

[Faithofchristian]

I would put aside the idea of believers and non-believers and instead think about what you are asking others to believe. If someone is looking for answers to questions like "Where do we come from?", "What is our purpose?", "What happens to us when we die?", how should they choose from the myriad of belief systems that are practiced today? The choice is not a simple or easy one. Many belief systems that are practiced today are mutually exclusive; adhering to one set of principles may disqualify you for the benefits of another belief system.
How is one to choose the correct belief system? Which one is true?

I'm not asking anyone to believe in what I believe..
All that I'm saying is..
Before anyone should ask someone to prove the existence of something..
That person should first provide the evidence first to prove what their asking.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I listed some of the reasons for not believing a god exists.
Your turn to list reasons it does exist.

As you haven't listed nothing..as there is nothing in your post of you listing anything..
So give what you have

 

[Quintessence]

Theists belief that a god created everything around us is easily shot down.

Not with the argument you presented, no. Because this is a thing:

Acceptance of evolution by religious groups - Wikipedia

 

[Faithofchristian]

If a diety created the Earth and heavens would he create something that couldn't survive? I'm referring to Mass Extinctions.

mass extinctions on earth - Google Search

• Ordovician extinction. When: about 445 million years ago. Species lost: 60-70 percent. ...
• Devonian extinction. When: about 375-360 million years ago. ...
• Permian extinction. When: about 252 million years ago. ...
• Triassic extinction. When: about 200 million years ago. ...
• Cretaceous extinction. When: about 66 million years ago.

Well it's evidence that you haven't a clue or idea anything about the bible..

Throughout the Bible it foretold about the world that then was..
This being the first earth age of the dinosaurs...
Which to day paleontologists scientist have discovered dinosaurs bones that date back to about 65.5 Millions of years ago..

Which shows the earth as being much older than what other Christians are taught in the churches that the earth as being only 6000 years old..
That being a false teaching.
As we know by the paleontologists scientific world as dated the dinosaurs bones around 65,5 Million years old.

Therefore the earth is not 6000 years old..
But Millions of years old..

That even the bible it's self proves the earth as being much older than 6000 years old..

 

[MikeF]

I'm not asking anyone to believe in what I believe..
All that I'm saying is..
Before anyone should ask someone to prove the existence of something..
That person should first provide the evidence first to prove what their asking.

Do you not want other people to believe what you believe?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Actually the only thing that the universe is evidence of is the universe.

I've been told the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy says nothing that is could have been created or eliminated, and that of necessity, this Law was mysteriously exempt around Planck time, aka hand-waving.

God Created.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I've been told the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy says nothing that is could have been created or eliminated, and that of necessity, this Law was mysteriously exempt around Planck time, aka hand-waving.

God Created.

You've been told wrong or you misunderstood what you were told. All the universe is evidence of is that the universe exists. Claiming God Did It! is nothing more that wishful thinking.

 

[rrobs]

And given the fact that there are atheists who were once Christian (and often in the ministry itself)...what would you say?

They were unsatisfied as Christians.

 

[PureX]

Worshipping a god can't be left to the individual if this god exists. It sets the rules and believers follow them.

I see no logical reason why you claim this must be so. First off, I see not logical reason why "worship" should be a universal requirement, as opposed to our own personal choice. And secondly, I see no logical reason why God could not relate to humans on an individual, personal level as opposed to en masse.

 

[PureX]

The difference between proof and evidence is the context in which each is used. In a scientific (materialistic) setting no proof is required or even considered. So a material god needs evidence, scientific, i.e. repeatable, objective evidence.
If the god in questions is ideal in nature, science can't be used, so no evidence is required but proof.
Find the right tool for the job.

When is "God" ever proposed as a material phenomenon, though? I am not aware of any instance in which this would be the case. So science really has no business in the discussion, as it cannot explore nor address the theist proposition.

 

[rrobs]

I see no logical reason why you claim this must be so. First off, I see not logical reason why "worship" should be a universal requirement, as opposed to our own personal choice. And secondly, I see no logical reason why God could not relate to humans on an individual, personal level as opposed to en masse.

Are you saying God says different things to different people? That could get pretty interesting.

 

[Polymath257]

I've been told the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy says nothing that is could have been created or eliminated, and that of necessity, this Law was mysteriously exempt around Planck time, aka hand-waving.

God Created.

Actually, the law is also problematic in general relativity because of curvature considerations. Strictly speaking, the total amount of energy in a region cannot even be defined in general relativity.

There are also more subtle violations of this law in quantum systems because of what are known as quantum fluctuations. In particular, violations are allowed in time scales given by a Heisenberg uncertainty condition.

In particular, on the Planck scale, we have both large curvature and violations because of quantum fluctuations. So, no, it isn't hand-waving at all, but entirely in line with other things we know.

 

[PureX]

Are you saying God says different things to different people? That could get pretty interesting.

Why not? I see no reason to presume the messages must all be uniform, when people are all different, and at different places in their 'existential journey'.

 

[PureX]

If 'material' simply means 'whatever there can be evidence for', then I disagree.

What sort of proposition *is* God? A figment of our imagination? If so, there is nothing say.

And, what does it even mean to say that something that is not a 'material proposition' actually exists?

Some scientists surmise that "dark matter" and "dark energy" must exist, because according to their mathematical calculations; based on what little they think they know about the physical universe, it is required to exist make the calculations work. "Dark matter" and "dark energy" are just terms used to refer to the unresolved "mathematical gap" in our calculated grasp of the universe. In fact, scientists could just as easily labeled this gap in the mathematical calculation "Pete", or "God", because what's being referred to is an apparent existential mystery.

It's not a "figment of our imagination" that we perceive the necessity of an existential resolution. The MYSTERY IS REAL. And the solution does not appear to be forthcoming. Theism is a way of dealing with that. So is atheism. So is art, and philosophy and religion. And so, even, is willful ignorance.

 

[PureX]

No god created the world we live in today because the Earth has been in constant change since it's birth. That's evolution not any god.

Unless evolution is how God creates things.

 

[chinu]

No god created the world we live in today because the Earth has been in constant change since it's birth. That's evolution not any god.

If earth has been in constant change since it's birth, that means -- it is still changing every second. How can you come to any conclusion until this change STOP, or time-stop ?

But, God resides beyond time. He's also known as NO-time entity.

 

[Heyo]

When is "God" ever proposed as a material phenomenon, though? I am not aware of any instance in which this would be the case. So science really has no business in the discussion, as it cannot explore nor address the theist proposition.

Ever heard of a character named Jesus called the Christ? Some people think that he was a god. There are at least as many god images as god believers, some are material. They need evidence to convince an atheist.
Others see god as an ideal or supernatural entity. They need proof or at least logical consistency.
But most of all, they all need to define what they are talking about. And it would be really nice if they could agree upon the definition before they start proving or collecting evidence. It is tedious to debate believers who can't even agree on what to believe.

 

[Heyo]

Some scientists surmise that "dark matter" and "dark energy" must exist, because according to their mathematical calculations; based on what little they think they know about the physical universe, it is required to exist make the calculations work.

Nope. Dark Matter and Dark Energy are not artefacts of a mathematical model. They are real phenomena waiting for an explanation.
Sometimes it is the other way around as it was with gravitational waves or the Higgs boson. They were for a long time mathematically predicted and waited for the evidence.