Expectations

[zenzero]

Friends,What ever we do; we always have *EXPECTATION* from it. We want a favourable result [expectation]. When a child is born, parents starts *Expecting* something from the child. A superman, something, something.The society expects from individuals as law abiding, tax payer etc.Individuals have expectations from their parents, society and when ever there is a mismatch Imbances happens causing mental sufferings.It can also be called DESIRES.Enlightened people therefore said ' DO NOT DESIRE / HAVE EXPECTATIONS and live a HAPPY LIFE.Whatever one needs is already given by existence then why desire and have expectations and live in hell?Heaven / hell are no places after death. After death is far off. Be HERE-NOW. The future will take care of itself. The PRCOCESS starts HERE-NOW.Comments / understandings/ brickbats / experiences/ whatever.Love & rgds

 

[Heneni]

Id like to chat to you about this, though i'm not dharmic.??

I think what you are trying to say, a person has to catch, it can not be taught. The english language has to be used to do so, and for each english word people have their own mental image of what it means.

About expectations...for me its a bit unnatural to not have any expectations.

When people get married they make vows. Surely they do this expecting it to be kept. And I dont think that is wrong.

Dont expectations run the world.

We expect to get value for our money
We expect the lights to go on when we switch it on, because we paid for it
We expect stuff to work when we buy it.

If it doesnt, and we just leave it...then we are just encouraging neglect.

But on the other hand I can see how not having attachments to stuff can be useful to live a life of 'freedom'.

But For me, its not the expectation that is the issue, so much as it is our response to expectations met or not met.

What's your thoughts on this?

 

[Phasmid]

Without desire nothing would happen... life would be extremely dull. "No expectations, no dissapointment" is all well and good, but negative emotions aren't necessarily bad.

Bad emotions can prompt positive action, so why do we try to bury them, or call them illusions?

In fact I was reading an article in New Scientist today, which shows that the body and even the brain react positively to stress and toxins. Vitimins when taken in too large a dose, cause harm, while a little causes positive effects, the same is often true with toxins or stress, though in different dosages.

It prepares the body, trains it. People think fruit and vegetables are good for them due to antioxidants, while that's not true, since you'd have to eat more than you're capable of, to get such benefits. They're good for you're body because they contain certain substances, which cause stress reactions in your body, which causes the body to "brace for impact" so to speak. Same thing with exercise, even deep thinking causes neural fibers to strengthen due to being used/stressed.

In the same way, negative emotions strengthen us, bad feelings aren't to be ignored or buried with philosophic rhetoric.

 

[michaelm]

I was just reading in the Mahabharata about how we should not always be forgiving, and there is something called righteous anger, otherwise we would be the target of bad people for whom forgiveness has no effect, causing suffering not only on ourselves, but also on family and friends .
It is sometimes necessary to deal with wrongdoing not by tolerance and forgiveness, but by opposing it - anger is perhaps the wrong word, since it is commonly taught that we should always act with a cool head.

In order to follow this there is some need to have expectations. To have NO expectations whatsoever makes it impossible for this principle to exist, since 'wrongdoing' cannot have an way of being recognised as such without it.

What we should avoid are the emotions that go with it. We should understand some people do wrong, some need forgiveness, sometimes it is necessay to not forgive.

It seems to me that all the way through this scripture the message is telling us that we have a tendency to want black or white rules. Clear cut rules, this is right, that is wrong. However in reality this is not wise. We must exercise judgement about the situation, the person, the consequences if we forgive, the consequences if we do not forgive.

 

[Phasmid]

It probably causes more stress (not a healthy amount) to try and avoid negative emotions, than it does to simply let yourself be negative for a while.

Thinking, "I must not feel this way" or, "I don't want to feel desire... oh no, there I go again" are likely to do more harm than good.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Responding to everyones posts but taking each one's query to do so but meant for everyone.
Friend Michaelm writes

I was just reading in the Mahabharata about how we should not always be forgiving, and there is something called righteous anger, otherwise we would be the target of bad people for whom forgiveness has no effect, causing suffering not only on ourselves, but also on family and friends .
It is sometimes necessary to deal with wrongdoing not by tolerance and forgiveness, but by opposing it - anger is perhaps the wrong word, since it is commonly taught that we should always act with a cool head.

Yes, it is here that Gautama the Buddha went a bit deeper than the Sanatan Dharma [hinduism] and found SILENCE/NOTHINGNESS is the final destination and any wrong doer when faced with Silence sees his own face as SILENCE automatically reflects or acts as a mirror to the wrong doer; which is enough to bring about the necessary change. No one changed him but change did take place BUT when the mirror was placed and that mirror is SILENCE. This was proved when Angulimala was confronted by Buddha. Yes, here he did speak but those words were not of confrontations or opposing Angulimala's way but just creating a situation to act as agent of change for Angulimala. But the silence/ peace/serene wall is evident that is so imposing that all efforts fail.
Agree with your last line * act with cool head*. This cool is only cool not a flicker of anger even.
BUT first we ourself have to be that WALL of silence to remain cool.
[rest of your response is self explainatory]
Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Now taking friend Heneni's response.

Id like to chat to you about this, though i'm not dharmic.??

Yes, we are Chatting now.

I think what you are trying to say, a person has to catch, it can not be taught. The english language has to be used to do so, and for each english word people have their own mental image of what it means.

Yes, you have understood it rightly.

About expectations...for me its a bit unnatural to not have any expectations.
Yes, it appears un-natural but NATURAL comes first before it becomes un-natural.
When people get married they make vows. Surely they do this expecting it to be kept. And I dont think that is wrong.
No, it is not wrong but when it does not happen then what happens? unhappiness
Dont expectations run the world.
The world runs on its own; we only THINK that the MIND rules.
We expect to get value for our money.
We are not born with money.
We expect the lights to go on when we switch it on, because we paid for it
We expect stuff to work when we buy it.
Right, but you get angry when it does not work. Anger is a negative charge

If it doesnt, and we just leave it...then we are just encouraging neglect.

No, one should not leave it but carry on doing what one is suppossed to, to get it working to the best of one's ability.
But on the other hand I can see how not having attachments to stuff can be useful to live a life of 'freedom'.
That is what life is all about. One is born in the garden of Eden but still is not living there and that Eden is not somewhere in heaven after death. It is HERE-NOW.

But For me, its not the expectation that is the issue, so much as it is our response to expectations met or not met.
Either way, Even if you are expecting a response, that too is an expectation.

What's your thoughts on this?
None, only DEEDS. As Thinking is where SATAN entered our human life. One has to be totally aware of one's thoughts and be its master or else even though living in the garden of Eden live in HELL.
Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Taking friend Phasmid's response:

Without desire nothing would happen... life would be extremely dull. "No expectations, no dissapointment" is all well and good, but negative emotions aren't necessarily bad.
Nothing is good or bad, desires/expectations are all part of dualities and one has to rise above them to be free of them.
Bad emotions can prompt positive action, so why do we try to bury them, or call them illusions?
same as above.
In fact I was reading an article in New Scientist today, which shows that the body and even the brain react positively to stress and toxins. Vitimins when taken in too large a dose, cause harm, while a little causes positive effects, the same is often true with toxins or stress, though in different dosages.

It prepares the body, trains it. People think fruit and vegetables are good for them due to antioxidants, while that's not true, since you'd have to eat more than you're capable of, to get such benefits. They're good for you're body because they contain certain substances, which cause stress reactions in your body, which causes the body to "brace for impact" so to speak. Same thing with exercise, even deep thinking causes neural fibers to strengthen due to being used/stressed.

In the same way, negative emotions strengthen us, bad feelings aren't to be ignored or buried with philosophic rhetoric.
Let the body do its own work as mentioned above one has to rise above dualities.
Love & rgds

 

[Phasmid]

Let the body do its own work as mentioned above one has to rise above dualities.
Love & rgds

... why?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Phasmid,
Reality is one, nothing to do with dualities.
Eg as explained earlier MAgnet has two poles you keep cutting a magnet in half still it is one with two poles.
Duality is the mind's perception otherwise they do not exists seperately.
To be able to understand the oneness one has to rise above the dualities.
Love & rgds

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, it is here that Gautama the Buddha went a bit deeper than the Sanatan Dharma [hinduism] and found SILENCE/NOTHINGNESS..

He said, 'Bhante, pay attention to what Buddha denies, and what Buddha denies not.' You are welcome to make your own guess about what Buddha said.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Aupmanyav,
That is true!
Buddha just wanted each one to be enlightebed and though he spoke millions of words; yet he spoke NOTHING.
One has to infer, understand and be enlightened on his own.
Love & rgds

 

[Nade]

When you're enlightened, life is pretty much the same as it was before. But you'll revel in the normalcy of it all. It's exactly the same as zenzero's "living life without expectation". If you know what you're expecting, you can let it go.

 

[texan1]

I really like this post zenzero. I can really relate to this. This idea of letting go of expectations has helped me recently to really be in the HERE and NOW.

I could be wrong, but I feel like here in the United States, more so than in other cultures, we are constantly surrounded by high expectations. There is always that pressure to have more things, be more beautiful, more successful.....leave your "mark".

When I was young, like most people, I had a vision or an expectation of where I would be by this time in my life with regard to my career. Things did not turn out exactly as I had planned. I spent a lot of time being depressed about the fact that I wasn't where I felt I should be and worrying about how to get there. In the meantime, I was not allowing myself to relish in the joy I have NOW in my everyday life. I have so much to be thankful for. I have two beautiful children, a happy marriage, hobbies that have surrounded me with a lot of friends and fulfillment...but for a time I was wasting so much time grasping and clawing, trying to "make it" and I was forgetting that I already had. My eyes were not fully open to the infinite joys in my life.

When I meditate I often say to myself "I have everything I need....I have everything I need". I find it very comforting. It helps me to keep living in the present.

On a smaller scale, I used to write lists everyday of the things I felt I needed to accomplish. When I was not able to complete those tasks, I often felt a little disappointed and would rush around the next day to try and catch up. Always rushing rushing...so many errands to run....Now I find that if I don't make a list, my day is often happier and more relaxed. It forces me to cut out all of the unimportant things that add undo stress to my life and focus on things like taking my little boys to the park.

As others have said, I find it hard to live without any expectations but I have to agree with you that they are the main source of anger and sadness. I can see that in my life anyway. I strive to continue to let go of expectations. For me that doesn't mean giving up on pursuing goals and a career, but it means enjoying what I have now while I pursue those things, and not letting my career path determine whether I am happy or not.

I know a lot of people who live their life thinking things like "if only I could find a husband I would be happy" or "if only I could get that job then I would be happy", etc. I think we deny ourselves a lot of happiness living in that mindset. More often than not, life does not go the way we expect it to.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Texan1,
The one realisation that like to share always is that:
We [humans] are born in the *GARDEN of EDEN* and it is only the *MIND* or SATAN that tells us to be in THOUGHTS and keeps us away from this beautiful garden of Eden.
Unfortunately, find few to understand this simple story of the Bible as the basis of that story.
Anyway, do not blame everyone has to go through their KARMA to be enlightened.
The fact that YOU have discovered this garden of eden; makes makes me happier as have another friend to share the fruits of the garden without fear of either god or satan.
Love & rgds

 

[koan]

expectations =Craving. Craving=Dukkha. Dukkher=suffering

The is a way to end Dukkher, follow the Eightfold Noble Path.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Friends,What ever we do; we always have *EXPECTATION* from it. We want a favourable result [expectation]. When a child is born, parents starts *Expecting* something from the child. A superman, something, something.The society expects from individuals as law abiding, tax payer etc.Individuals have expectations from their parents, society and when ever there is a mismatch Imbances happens causing mental sufferings.It can also be called DESIRES.Enlightened people therefore said ' DO NOT DESIRE / HAVE EXPECTATIONS and live a HAPPY LIFE.Whatever one needs is already given by existence then why desire and have expectations and live in hell?Heaven / hell are no places after death. After death is far off. Be HERE-NOW. The future will take care of itself. The PRCOCESS starts HERE-NOW.Comments / understandings/ brickbats / experiences/ whatever.Love & rgds

If there is one thing I learned in this life, although it took a while, don't expect anything and I'm much happier as a result. I have no pets, wife or girlfriend or children. I'm only responsible to myself and free from worry.

Just recently, I met a girl and we became good friends. After I left her that day to help one of my friends with some work in his yard, I felt this burning desire to be with her and when I was unable to do so, I became sad. I then realized that it was my selfishness that was creating this pain and I let it go. I still want to see her again, but if it doesn't happen, oh well.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Jeremy Mason,
Did not know there were more permanently singles on RF.
Yes, have gone through the experiences of those teenage attractions of the opposite sex and finally learnt that it is very temporary.
The important thing in life is not what we do but how aware we are of our own doing.
It is only by increasing awareness of every moment that we are finally able to drop even doing as doing comes from thoughts and thoughts from desires and all these come from the mind and its various layers.
So whatever you do; just do so with awareness.
Best wishes.
Love & rgds

 

[Functionless]

I think that recognizing expectations for what they are is critical in order to be happy. If I am always trapped with expectations that I cannot fulfill, I am always unhappy, and that is a truly deprived existence.

What a pain they are to sever the attachment from...

 

[zenzero]

Friend Functionless,

What a pain they are to sever the attachment from...

Yes, the other side of pain is relief/joy.
From attachment [pain] to detachment [joy].
Love & rgds