Experiencing God

[godnotgod]

There remains an acceptance in the reality of this experience of God. How is this any different than my experience of posted conversations with you? There is no you but there is a consistence of experience which provides a certainty that you are not me.

I lack as much control over my experience of this being who guides me towards enlightenment as I lack any control over your person. It is interesting to experience this separation which does not exist. Funny too sometimes. Who is it that we argue with. Even more unsettling, who are these adversarial entities which prance about my life, seemingly independent and non-connected.

Perhaps I should and inform them that they don't really exist. It would be interesting.

Like telling some Thief he doesn't exist regardless of how consistently he continues to insist he does.

No two snowflakes are exactly alike, but when they melt, all are the same substance: water. You are focusing on the manifestation, rather than the source of the manifestation. You are the source, pretending to be the manifestation, and then taking the manifestation seriously.

You cannot be guided toward Enlightenment. There is nothing that can become enlightened. You are already enlightened, pretending that you're not. It's all part of playing an Identity in the game of Hide and Seek, one that is referred to as 'you' and 'I'. The only thing left to do is to awaken to the fact.

We don't surrender our Identification too readily. It is all we think we have that makes us who we think we are. There is great fear in becoming an anonymous nobody. We are social creatures, indoctrinated early on with the need for acceptance. It is a matter of emotional and psychological security. Once we have overcome this need, and rely on a deeper sense of who we really are, Identity is then understood for what it actually is: fiction, a script written by others, and not of our own making.

 

[Midnight Rain]

I am amazed that so many believers that have had "spiritual" experiences won't share their experiences with others. It ought not surprise me however, as I too have had "spiritual" experiences that I just will not share with anyone. I gather that the telling of such experiences puts one at risk of throwing one's pearls to the swine.

My experience of God has actually brought me to a point where I no longer require faith to believe in God. I am absolutely certain of his existence and presence in my life.

So I guess that leaves me with a question for those who have had God experiences. What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced? What did you do to invoke God's attention?

I get the feeling that this was aimed more at Atheists than other theists.

To quote John Green "Religion is a response to revelation". Experiencing "god" or "gods/goddesses" to me is realizing how profoundly small you are. Something a lot of people have done is look over a valley from the top of a mountain. That feeling you get looking at the vastness and the beauty of it all would be a revelation. Suddenly being able to feel that and hopefully your connection to it is experiencing god.

There is no "us" and then "god'. There is no "mountain" separate from "earth".

 

[Sonofason]

I've already shed much light on your claims. Do you honestly think them to be misunderstood by those who are non-Christians? That yours is an exclusive set of experiences? That Christianity is in a class by itself, head and heels above all others, superior by comparison?

So what do you think you know of my capacity? You can only create notions about me, based on your belief system. What you say, based on that belief system, is indicative of your state of mind. I am already familiar with the foundations of the Christian belief system. Yours is nothing new. That tells me everything I need to know.

For instance, I'd be willing to bet that you see Jesus and Satan as polar opposites. Is that the case?

Oh no, not at all. I see Jesus as a human being. Satan could never be his own human being. Satan was an angelic being, and he never had any hope of ever resembling a human being.

 

[Sonofason]

No, it is you. Do you suppose your experience to be so unique, that it is unnapproachable by others who've perhaps been there, experienced that? I think what you fail to grasp is that there are not two or more Realities, but only one. What creates seemingly different realities are the many varieties of mind-forms. But Reality, or 'God', as you call it, is beyond all forms, all colors, all ideas, about itself. Therefore, if one transcends the multi faceted mind, one comes to a place that is the same everywhere. Assuming clear vision, what you see and what I see are virtually the same Reality. When I come across someone who insists HIS reality is the ONLY TRUE Reality, I know instantly that his is a conditioned and personal view of Reality, and not the genuine article.

You label your 'true reality' as 'Christianity', and everything non-Christian as not-true reality. But what you have unwittingly done is to split reality in two, when actual reality is singular and seamless. That schizoid split is only in your mind, which constantly discriminates between this and that; you and I; good and evil; heaven and hell; etc. where no such divisions actually exist.

I believe what Jesus said, when he said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.(John 14:15-17)

So yes I suppose my experience is unique to those who share this experience in reality.

 

[Sonofason]

I get the feeling that this was aimed more at Atheists than other theists.

To quote John Green "Religion is a response to revelation". Experiencing "god" or "gods/goddesses" to me is realizing how profoundly small you are. Something a lot of people have done is look over a valley from the top of a mountain. That feeling you get looking at the vastness and the beauty of it all would be a revelation. Suddenly being able to feel that and hopefully your connection to it is experiencing god.

There is no "us" and then "god'. There is no "mountain" separate from "earth".

Actually, my questions were for those who have had God experiences. And the questions I was asking them were these:
What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced?
What did you do to invoke God's attention?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually, my questions were for those who have had God experiences. And the questions I was asking them were these:
What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced?
What did you do to invoke God's attention?

Sounds like you're talking about a magic spell to make God appear.

 

[Thruve]

Actually, my questions were for those who have had God experiences. And the questions I was asking them were these:
What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced?
What did you do to invoke God's attention?

The questions we ask are..
Why has he been giving me attention all along.

I will not and cannot answer any thing else, because one day you might understand exactly what I'm talking about and I wouldn't ever take that away from you.

If you never do, it's simple, you never needed to.

 

[idea]

I am amazed that so many believers that have had "spiritual" experiences won't share their experiences with others. It ought not surprise me however, as I too have had "spiritual" experiences that I just will not share with anyone. I gather that the telling of such experiences puts one at risk of throwing one's pearls to the swine.

My experience of God has actually brought me to a point where I no longer require faith to believe in God. I am absolutely certain of his existence and presence in my life.

So I guess that leaves me with a question for those who have had God experiences. What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced? What did you do to invoke God's attention?

Some things defy words - Can a parent express to those who have not yet had children what it feels like to hold your baby for the first time? Can a cancer survivor explain to those who have never been ill what it feels like to look death in the face and find life? Can a musician explain to someone who has never played, what it feels like to be unified in an orchestra - to be part of that? Most things in life have to be experienced to be understood... no borrowed light, more than words.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some things defy words - Can a parent express to those who have not yet had children what it feels like to hold your baby for the first time? Can a cancer survivor explain to those who have never been ill what it feels like to look death in the face and find life? Can a musician explain to someone who has never played, what it feels like to be unified in an orchestra - to be part of that? Most things in life have to be experienced to be understood... no borrowed light, more than words.

This sounds bizarrely hypocritical coming from someone who believes in a proselytizing religion.

 

[idea]

This sounds bizarrely hypocritical coming from someone who believes in a proselytizing religion.

Parents reach out to find other parents, musicians find comfort in other musicians, cancer survivors reach out to find other cancer survivors - shared experiences are always more powerful than individual experiences. It's not about converting, it's about finding.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Parents reach out to find other parents, musicians find comfort in other musicians, cancer survivors reach out to find other cancer survivors - shared experiences are always more powerful than individual experiences. It's not about converting, it's about finding.

So your church isn't interested in converting people who haven't already had religious experiences? It doesn't use the religious experiences of others in its pitch to people who haven't had them?

I don't believe you.

 

[Midnight Rain]

Actually, my questions were for those who have had God experiences. And the questions I was asking them were these:
What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced?
What did you do to invoke God's attention?

The openness to connecting with nature. As I said before it is a revelation. Revelation is what causes experiences with god.

 

[soma]

In all religions and without religion people have spiritual experiences. I am a Christian so I will explain it using Christian terms. The science of psychology tell us that what is seen in the mind internally is developed externally so we Christians can say the insight starts in the soul and then radiates through the unconscious and subconscious before manifesting in the conscious mind. Some call this divine revelation from the Holy Spirit. We are unconscious of the soul because the subconscious and unconscious minds filter it out so we get absorbed in the conscious mind and think that is our true self as our real identity is unconscious. Therefore, in our relations with the infinite our finite minds personalize the infinite so our finite self can relate to it. Jesus Christ was not confused with his mortal individualization as we humans because he was set in motion by the spirit and not the ego mind. Our ego in conscious mind is continuously making an effort to use the spirit for its personal assistance and to gain an advantage, always looking to find something, but the soul can see what is present in the here and now. The ego gives us religious and spiritual pride, but the soul makes us humble. When we find peace in our soul, it lets us understand everything that we did not understand before because we will not find peace external to our self. The conscious mind got it wrong by telling us that when everything is in place we will find peace. It misleads us telling us that when we are successful then we will be happy, but when we are happy we become successful when we find peace everything falls into place. Jesus was not confused with the ego, conscious mind or his human nature because he did not yield to or construct the self-image of ego consciousness. He said it very clearly, “I and my Father are one.” (John 10:30). Jesus was not giving us a system to believe in, but the wisdom and knowledge to surrender the ego self to the infinite and serve the universe. We can’t see clearly in the ego so by surrendering it we can see spontaneously and naturally then we are free and it can’t steal our joy and our love will shine through. We are not our ego, we have an ego to surrender to Our Lord, and in return we realize we are the soul not to disconnect us from the world, but to get the full deeper meaning of it. Don’t be afraid enter the soul by leaving your fears, ego and shoes at the door and the spirit will receive you with love and peace. The experience is beyond the mind so can't be explained only experienced.

 

[grainne]

It does not work that way for you. It does for other theists, and in particular polytheists, regardless of whether or not you personally agree with it. Yes, your god is not water, sun, or leaf. Mine gods are. From my point of view, I directly experience my gods on a daily basis, and I was explaining to you (and anyone else who reads) why that is. I see god(s) differently than you. You're allowed to disagree with my theology, and me with yours. What I find odd is that while you seem to respect experiences of god(s) that match your own theology, you don't seem to take those of other theisms seriously. This is exactly, exactly why many theists don't like sharing their religious experiences; because we're sick of outsiders telling us "oh, that wasn't god(s)" or otherwise naysaying and poo-pooing our experiences. I would not see it as my place to tell you whether or not you've experienced your god. I would appreciate, but do not expect, the same courtesy.

This is truly beautiful Quintessence.

I see God in everything. And I also realize that people experience God differently. There is validity to all our beliefs. Some may have the gift of experiencing God personally, directly, others experience God as Consciousness, and there there are those who believe in God without any direct experience of what I would call "expansion of consciousness. How nice to not need proof. I always needed proof; I got it.

I had my own experience of God while in meditation. I was practicing Hinduism at the time. My consciousness expanded and God met me in that expansion. I knew this God or Consciousness as some may desire to call it, was God and that I was enveloped in unconditional Love. That is all there was: Love. I knew that God loved all no matter what they have done. There was no judgmental God. It was a "knowingness" that left me "knowing." No scientist or even these videos or arguments here can change those beliefs. They were more real than any experience on earth, so to speak.

But I would not say that you are "tossing your pearls before swine" by talking about it, but you are opening up yourself to ridicule, and if you can't take the redicule you should not talk about it at all. Some people say that they won't talk about their beliefs because they are very personal. They were meant for you and you only. That may be very, very true. I have talked about this experience with atheists, and I know what they believe about them and even about me. Often I wish I had just not talked about it because who was really helped by my own experience? No one but me. I was an atheist when I had this experience; now I can no longer be one.

And furthermore, I can no longer be in any one faith or religion. It really doesn't matter what anyone really believes about God or even if they don't believe in a God/Consciousness/Universal Spirit, etc. Even the experience of "We are all One" is relevant and may be the ultimate truth than just believing in God. My deep feeling from my own experience is that our life continues after our body dies. I don't believe in karma anymore, and I had quit believing in hell years ago.

 

[Thief]

Sounds like you're talking about a magic spell to make God appear.

Some people call that praying....sort of.....

 

[Muffled]

That's not exactly unique to Christianity.

... and not particularly Christian, IMO. From what I've seen, the more common advice I've heard from Christians is not to focus on the problem OR the solution (e.g. "let go and let God).

The question is moot until you can produce someone who "experiences God" (as opposed to someone who merely experiences things that he assumes come from God).

I believe I do experience God and I do not simply assume that I do. I experience the air I breathe and that comes from God but it is not an experience of God.

Lets use an anlogy. If I experience Doug itis sometimes through what Doug says. What Doug says is an expression of himself. It is also true of God. What God says is an expression of Himself. However there is a difference between hearing Doug say his word and reading a note from Doug. Hearing him say His word is a direct experience while reading a note is an indirect experience.

 

[Muffled]

I think you are mistaken.

There is no God. Therefore to think otherwise or to have experiences of God is not credible.

Now what? Back to square one, I am afraid.



My muslim friend experiences Allah very often, allegedly. And Allah tells him that Jesus is not the true God.

Should I give him credibility? If not, why should I give credibility to your experiences? Do you have evidence that your experiences are more plausible than his?

Ciao

- viole

I believe your thinking that there is no God is as credible as my thinking that there is except for the fact that you are thinking from a lack of experience while I am thinking from experience. What would you say if I said I don't believe there is an Eiffel Tower in Paris France? I can say I have never experienced so logically it must not exist. That is what you logic amounts to when you say there is no God.

I believe that is wishful thinking on your part.

I believe my experience of God is that Jesus is the true God. Since we are experiencing opposite things then one of us must be wrong in his assessment of who he is hearing. I believe Christians have a decided advantage in the fact that Jesus promised the Paraclete to Christians but Muslims do not have the Paraclete or any such promise. However one is not limited to what one hears but we also have the written word and there is no doubt in my mind that the evidence is there that Jesus is God. Usually the way this is viewed in Christian circles is that a person claiming to hear something from God that contradicts the word of God, is not really hearing from God.

I believe we can give credibility to the fact that he thinks he is hearing from God but as things have been stated above there are reasons to believe he did not. The question becomes then how could you test whether someone hears from God and the answer is that you can't. The only person who will know that I hear from God will be another person who hears from God and not just someone who thinks he does.

 

[Muffled]

Some people call that praying....sort of.....

I don't believe so. Magic spells require a person to do something a specific way to achieve the results. Prayers are totally optional in their content although some like to use the Lord's Prayer as a guideline. If the Lord's Prayer becomes a mantra then it is bordering on a magic spell.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe I do experience God and I do not simply assume that I do. I experience the air I breathe and that comes from God but it is not an experience of God.

Lets use an anlogy. If I experience Doug itis sometimes through what Doug says. What Doug says is an expression of himself. It is also true of God. What God says is an expression of Himself. However there is a difference between hearing Doug say his word and reading a note from Doug. Hearing him say His word is a direct experience while reading a note is an indirect experience.

But in either case, we can ask how you know the message is from Doug. Was it actually Doug, or was it a "Doug impersonator"? Did you make a bad assumption about someone who only looked like Doug? Did you assume that the note was from Doug only because it seemed like something he would say?

Even in the case of a simple interaction with Doug, there's still the possibility that you might be mistaken or deceived. This is why when it really matters, we don't assume that you really did talk to Doug: if you go to the bank saying that Doug told you to withdraw $1000 from his account, the teller won't give you the cash.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I am amazed that so many believers that have had "spiritual" experiences won't share their experiences with others. It ought not surprise me however, as I too have had "spiritual" experiences that I just will not share with anyone. I gather that the telling of such experiences puts one at risk of throwing one's pearls to the swine.

My experience of God has actually brought me to a point where I no longer require faith to believe in God. I am absolutely certain of his existence and presence in my life.

So I guess that leaves me with a question for those who have had God experiences. What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced? What did you do to invoke God's attention?

I agree - I don't usually bring up personal experiences with atheists, because I know what they sounded like when I was an atheist- and they didn't help at all.

I suppose the whole point is that they ARE very personal, and ultimately personal experiences are the best proof of anything?