Agondonter
Active Member
There is no "before." Consciousness and the objects of consciousness give rise to each other.
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Yes, it's okay. It's a metaphor, not an insult. And no reasonable society would see it as anything else.
He is saying he is one with the Source, which is the Father: "I and the Father are One", which is to say that Jesus and the Father are of the same ESSENCE, but not of the same FORM.
The 'Father' is the Creator, the source of all that is; the background of existence against which all things exist.
However, jesus also says that he is 'not of this world', meaning he is not about what is created, but about the source of the creation; not about 'existence' but about 'Being', which is 'I Am', and not 'I exist', because existence is in Space and Time (ie; 'history', as Abraham was), while Being is not in Space or Time: it is eternal and infinite.
Abraham was born and died, a product of history; Jesus is Unborn and Deathless, 'not of this world', even though his flesh was, since he had two natures. Campeche?
There cannot be sound without the background of silence; there cannot be something without the background of no-thing-ness. You know black because of white; good because of evil; right because of wrong; light because of darkness, etc, etc. Think about it.
Illusions come and go, and so does this 'material' world. The real world Jesus is referring to that he IS of, is the world that does NOT come and go.
Putting stock in this world can only bring suffering, because it does not last, and it does not last because it is an illusion.
Pure Consciousness is already in place BEFORE words or thoughts.
I said no reasonable society would see it as anything other than a metaphor. Does it look like we live in a reasonable society?Wrong.
Please describe the wonderful difference between what you mean bey FORM and ESSENCE. We are talking about some "spiritual" thingy. What possible "FORM" do you imagine it has?
Word salad isn't going to make you sound any more rational.
Wow, that sounds deep!.. To me, completely meaningless, of course. BUT, heck, you can believe it all you like. Why should anyone else is a mystery to me. Do you have ... any supporting evidence for the above assertions?
Or.. is it an irrational poetical mish-mash meant to impress the gullilble?
Wow, you SURE know what Jesus means, don't you?
I have to wonder how it is you GOT that deep into the delusion, godnotgod.
What we "Campeche" is that you believe this stuff. But WHY .. that's a mystery.
When did you first accept this indoctrination?
Surely, you didn't make it all up did you?
We have. It's nonsense. Just because you can make dichotomies, you imagine that you have proved something. Well, you haven't proved anything other than how your thinking is really bad. But as long as it sounds deep, your job is done.
So, I suppose that you have evidence for this world that doesn't come and go? ... I didn't think so. But you believe it anyway..
I wonder where you got this stuff from.
You sound like you really believe this stuff. I just wonder why you do.
And you know that because.....
I said no reasonable society would see it as anything other than a metaphor. Does it look like we live in a reasonable society?
There is no "before." Consciousness and the objects of consciousness give rise to each other.
That statement is a reflection of the Heart Sutra from Buddhism, and it is true. I believe the Buddha was referring to perceptual reality, ie; what we know via the 5 senses. But I ask you: via what state of awareness was the Buddha able to determine the truth of his statement?
How do you KNOW that it's true?
By faith?
We think we are awake in this world, but there is a higher awakening by which we see clearly that this life is only a dream, and that the character we play is only a fiction, the true Self being that which has awakened.
If you dreamt of being a dragon-slayer, and were someone in your dream to ask you: 'Are you really a dragon-slayer?', you would, of course, answer in the affirmative.
I'm a demon slayer. In real life, I kill demons. They really aren' too tough after all the hype.
If you pretend the demons are real, they are
I've been daring demons to infest me for years now, ain't seen one yet.
You mistake an analogy of something real with reality itself.
I've been daring demons to infest me for years now, ain't seen one yet.
If you pretend the demons are real, they are. Because pretend is the Buddhist's way.
As long as it sounds deep, IT IS!
You see? You actually believe this to be reality, when you are only dreaming. .
But you won't know that until you awaken. .
This dream you think to be 'reality' seems far more 'real' than the reality experienced in dream-sleep because it is an illusion of a much higher order.
The most recent clue from the science community that this 'material' world is an illusion comes from Quantum Mechanics, which is saying that ALL of the mass of the atom is created by fluctuations in the Quantum and Higgs Fields, rendering this 'reality' to be purely VIRTUAL in nature, confirming what the East has told us for centuries: that this material world is maya.
You see?
You actually believe this to be a dream.
You watch too many movies. Believe this is "all a dream" all you like. It still hurts if you jump off a roof.I hardly see how your analogy matters. But.. I guess you took that red pill, didn't you? You know something that none of us know.
I don't know anything that you don't know. It's just that you haven't learned to see yet.
You haven't been paying attention. Jumping off a roof and experiencing the resulting pain is an experience in PERCEPTUAL REALITY. The dream you are in says its real, but as I said, this dream is of a higher calibre than your ordinary garden variety type dream. Got that? That's why you continue to think this dream to be reality, as you perceive it via your 5 senses to be so. But the senses are deceptive, as we all know. So what I am referring to when I talk about awakening, is a higher state of awareness that does not rely on the senses. We call this type of awareness that of Ultimate Reality. It is transcendent of the 5 senses. That is awakening.
Believing this to be a dream has nothing to do with knowing that it is a dream. Only via awakening can you know that. Until then, you will swear up and down that it is real. You continue to dwell in the state of Identification, which is pure fiction.
Just because scientists have discovered the HIGGS FIELD in no way proves that reality is VIRTUAL.
I do think that you quite LITERALLY live in a dream.
Dream on, if you insist.
I’m sure that it’s a happy dream, after all.