Experiencing God

[Rick O'Shez]

I bet you never experience God...not with that attitude.

"Spiritual" experiences are inherently subjective, and people usually interpret them in terms of their beliefs and preconceptions.

I used to do "silent worship" with the Quakers, it is a kind of silent contemplation. Coming from a theist tradition they would talk about the "God within", and coming from a Buddhist background, I would talk about "meditative stillness". From discussion I'm pretty sure we were experiencing much the same thing. Whether or not God exists is not the point here, the point is that people interpret what they experience in different ways. I think it is best to keep an open mind, rather than clinging to beliefs which cannot be substantiated.

 

[YmirGF]

I think your imagination is getting the best of you.

I'm a little bit more familiar with this process than your average human animal. I've been through this experience of meeting my vision of god. Fortunately, I didn't stop there, though it was very tempting... ...more tempting than few can appreciate.

The biggest caution I would give inner pilgrims is to beware of the ossifying nature of certainty. Certainty can create experiences beyond ones wildest dreams, depending on the level of emotional investment, but they will also be mired in ones own binding preconceptions.

 

[YmirGF]

"Spiritual" experiences are inherently subjective, and people usually interpret them in terms of their beliefs and preconceptions.

I used to do "silent worship" with the Quakers, it is a kind of silent contemplation. Coming from a theist tradition they would talk about the "God within", and coming from a Buddhist background, I would talk about "meditative stillness". From discussion I'm pretty sure we were experiencing much the same thing. Whether or not God exists is not the point here, the point is that people interpret what they experience in different ways. I think it is best to keep an open mind, rather than clinging to beliefs which cannot be substantiated.

Interesting bit of synchronicity going on there as we were both writing about preconceptions at the same time, thousands of miles apart.... *hears the Twilight Zone theme begin playing*

 

[Sonofason]

"Spiritual" experiences are inherently subjective, and people usually interpret them in terms of their beliefs and preconceptions.

I used to do "silent worship" with the Quakers, it is a kind of silent contemplation. Coming from a theist tradition they would talk about the "God within", and coming from a Buddhist background, I would talk about "meditative stillness". From discussion I'm pretty sure we were experiencing much the same thing. Whether or not God exists is not the point here, the point is that people interpret what they experience in different ways. I think it is best to keep an open mind, rather than clinging to beliefs which cannot be substantiated.

I think that is a reasonable assessment. We do all interpret our experiences in different ways. For example: The God that Abraham spoke of is indeed the same God that Muslims believe in. People do have different perceptions of an experience, even if the physical experience, the actual thing that causes us to have the experience is exactly the same. Two different people can meet my acquaintance and come to two very different conclusions about me. It could be that one of them is wrong about me. It could be that both of them are right about me. Or it could be that both of them are wrong about me. While it is certainly true that external influences play a significant antecedent role in the development of our perceptions of those experiences, we must keep in mind that perceptions are more consequentially constructs of the mind.

I believe in God despite the fact that my experiences of Him cannot be substantiated, because I believe I have experienced Him. We believe what we believe. It is not a choice we make. Something happens, we experience something that convinces us that something is true. How does one perceive God? Is it by the perceptions of others? How can we reliably place honest and good faith in the existence of God based on the constructs of other people's minds? We can't.

If we are to have significant faith in God it must be because we have experienced Him in some significant way, even though our perceptions of Him are more than likely desperately flawed. Keeping an open mind is good, but having a closed mind is bad. For someone to continually suggest that people who believe they have experienced God are imagining things are completely shut off from the concept of open-mindedness.

 

[Sonofason]

I'm a little bit more familiar with this process than your average human animal. I've been through this experience of meeting my vision of god. Fortunately, I didn't stop there, though it was very tempting... ...more tempting than few can appreciate.

The biggest caution I would give inner pilgrims is to beware of the ossifying nature of certainty. Certainty can create experiences beyond ones wildest dreams, depending on the level of emotional investment, but they will also be mired in ones own binding preconceptions.

I agree with that statement, but to suggest that everyone who believes they have experienced God is only imagining things is equally intellectually dishonest, and closed-minded. Yes it is possible that some people who believe they have experienced God have not experienced a god. And it is possible that some people who believe that they have only imagined that they have experienced God have actually experienced God. The matter comes down to faith, not only in God, but in one's self. And I believe it is important to have faith in one's self because everyone else is unreliable.

 

[Trichakra]

I agree with one. G-d notices, hears our prayers and helps us.

Pray for god and god will help ....

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Keeping an open mind is good, but having a closed mind is bad. For someone to continually suggest that people who believe they have experienced God are imagining things are completely shut off from the concept of open-mindedness.

Having an open mind involves a healthy dollop of "I don't know". So maybe the experiences you've had are related to God, but maybe they are not.

Having a closed mind means clinging to premature certainties. It stems from an inability to cope with ongoing uncertainty, and often involves prioritising comfort over truth.

 

[Tabu]

Having an open mind involves a healthy dollop of "I don't know". So maybe the experiences you've had are related to God, but maybe they are not.

Having a closed mind means clinging to premature certainties. It stems from an inability to cope with ongoing uncertainty, and often involves prioritising comfort over truth.

What do you classify as premature certainties?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What do you classify as premature certainties?

One example is having a "spiritual" experience and assuming it must relate to God. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but if there is a need to believe then confirmation bias quickly distorts one's judgement.

 

[YmirGF]

One example is having a "spiritual" experience and assuming it must relate to God. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but if there is a need to believe then confirmation bias quickly distorts one's judgement.

It's all in how the conscious mind grapples with information that is outside its normal perspective. There are leaps in conclusions based on little more than feelings...

 

[Tabu]

One example is having a "spiritual" experience and assuming it must relate to God. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but if there is a need to believe then confirmation bias quickly distorts one's judgement.

Thanks , Is there a way to find if the experience is really from God?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Thanks , Is there a way to find if the experience is really from God?

Not that I know of.

 

[Sonofason]

Pray for god and god will help ....

I'm seconding that motion.

 

[Sonofason]

Having an open mind involves a healthy dollop of "I don't know". So maybe the experiences you've had are related to God, but maybe they are not.

Having a closed mind means clinging to premature certainties. It stems from an inability to cope with ongoing uncertainty, and often involves prioritising comfort over truth.

When I wake up in the morning, and it appears the sun is shining, I tend to believe the sun is shining. I know there is a chance that I am wrong, that I am not perceiving things accurately, but I feel quite comfortable believing that I have indeed witnessed the sun shining. But I will indeed try to keep an open mind about that.

Therefore I agree with you...maybe I have not experienced God. The truth is I can't say with absolute certainty that I have...but I believe I have. The only way that my belief regarding what I believe I experienced could possibly be changed is if something should happen, ie I learn something, that convinces me that I have not experienced God. Until then, I have little choice over the matter. We do not choose what we believe. It just happens.

 

[Muffled]

I am sure I must have told this story somewhere in this thread, but I will tell it again. I cannot say exactly where it came from, whether it be angel or demon, God or the devil, some collective conscience, or something from within my own self, but quite a few years ago, I was living with my aged grandfather in his house. I was a member of a rock band, and we were doing a show about a two hours drive from home. Our drummer lived between the two locations, and was having a BBQ the following day which I planned on attending, and it was very late, so I stayed at his place that night. I was awoken from my sleep by a voice shouting my name, telling me to "go home". It was frightening. I sat up and listened, and the voice I heard said my name again, and said "you have to go home".

Immediately, I got up and went home to find an ambulance in my driveway. I ran inside to find my grandfather had suffered a major heart attack. I got to speak with him for about 10 minutes. And he died.

I believe it takes a lot of faith to listen to a voice but at least going home is not a dangerous enterprise and it turned out the voice knew what was going on. That I would consider prophetic and most likely from God.

 

[Muffled]

And your arguments for your doubts? Please
Regards

I believe so far I haven't hear anything convincing. Do you have a thread strictly for that issue? Perhaps I just don't know enough about him yet.

 

[Muffled]

Any one can have an experience of God through meditation , if they allow themselves to experience it.

I believe that is similar to Buddhist meditation with the exception that it requires God as a guide and Buddhism does not. In the Sikh relgion meditation is to connect with God but the religion believes a person needs a guru to guide the person to God. I suppose that makes some sense because wandering aimlessly in the spirit can e dangerous.

 

[Whiterain]

So basically I came to the conclusion a movement started long ago... The movement was judging the Gods, their ethics, are they "Good" or "Evil" and are they going to ignore them.

This may have continued into current day between political and religious parties in an attempt to "alienate" God and turn people against God, who may believe in Fascism and segregation.

But the bottom line is God is Alpha and Omega, a supreme being over Man's laws and ethical views.

Gods give commands not often polite requests and people have always been innocent bystanders in Gods wrath because of our politicians ignorance.

People may or may not hate God but ultimately should understand the notion of judging God was ignoramus and even more catastrophic on the innocence.


People do not deserve to be paraded around ignorantly and understand dogma is just a tool.

People obviously need constant direction and stern leadership and suffer because of political incompetence.

 

[Muffled]

So basically I came to the conclusion a movement started long ago... The movement was judging the Gods, their ethics, are they "Good" or "Evil" and are they going to ignore them.

This may have continued into current day between political and religious parties in an attempt to "alienate" God and turn people against God, who may believe in Fascism and segregation.

But the bottom line is God is Alpha and Omega, a supreme being over Man's laws and ethical views.

Gods give commands not often polite requests and people have always been innocent bystanders in Gods wrath because of our politicians ignorance.

People may or may not hate God but ultimately should understand the notion of judging God was ignoramus and even more catastrophic on the innocence.


People do not deserve to be paraded around ignorantly and understand dogma is just a tool.

People obviously need constant direction and stern leadership and suffer because of political incompetence.

I believe everyone will stand or fall on their own beliefs not on what others have said.

 

[Tabu]

I suppose that makes some sense because wandering aimlessly in the spirit can e dangerous.

We have an aim ;To become the most perfect souls with the knowledge from The Purifier: To become the Kings and Queens of Heaven. To inherit the Gardens from Our Beloved Father , The Lord of The Garden.