Failure of creationists/theists to undertand scientific theory & facts

[Luminous]

I guess one can cherry pick 'God's word', but how does one go around in doing so?

 

[roli]

There are no creation scientists, because creationism is religion, not science.
I am very familiar with creationism, having read and familiarized myself with their arguments until I couldn't stomach it any more. No, it's not. You've been misinformed. Name ten biologists working in the world today who accept Intelligent Design as correct. The only manufactured "controversy" comes from the Discovery Institute, a propaganda arm of a religious movement, founded by a lawyer and funded by a millionaire.
So I guess you're not the same person who keeps insisting that ID is not the same as creationism then?

So seeing is obviously believing for you, although you and I know it's hypocracy and your day to life will prove this,..that is if you are intellectually honest. These very facts you insist upon and use to validate your very position are absent the majority of life. Face Auto, you live by faith more than you live by fact, But I know you'll blow that theory off.

So your that close minded and willing to turn your eyes to the elephant in the room, reject the history of the bible, Geographical accuracy,the unwavering amount of fulfilled prophecy in the bible,the archeological finds, the thousands of manuscripts and their proven authenticity, the authority of historians, theologians,oh and did I mention he world's leading and longest standing book ever produced, sold and translated.....the bible...and it's all a lie.
Not to mention the countless lives that have been radically changed because of the power of this unseen and imagintive thing, we call God.
So these men and women are all liars and basically have tno credentials..dare to look, or will you make a mockery first and than criticise
Who's Who in Creation/Evolution - CreationSuperLibrary.com
A list of creation scientists who are/have contributed to science

...the only thing left to proof to you this is not a figment of our imaginations and that none of it was a lie ,will be the rapture of the church when Jesus returns. but laugh if you may...the writing is on the wall as we move into these troubled times as recorded in the bible, but again, you won't look into what the bible prophecised about the days where living in and how accurate it is.
......I just ask one thing,please remember our conversations when these lies take place, for they just might become your most dreadful realities.

 

[Autodidact]

So seeing is obviously believing for you, although you and I know it's hypocracy and your day to life will prove this,..that is if you are intellectually honest. These very facts you insist upon and use to validate your very position are absent the majority of life. Face Auto, you live by faith more than you live by fact, But I know you'll blow that theory off.

Wow, this is the opposite of what I think about how people work. I would say that you use "seeing is believing" in each and every area of your life--except religion. When you're sick, you go to the Doctor, who relies on science to figure out how to treat you. You don't just pray and rely on faith. You base every decision you make on the evidence of your (and other's) previous experience. The only thing you accept on faith is God.

I agree that we don't have a lot of certainty, and our efforts to figure out what the heck is going on are not always reliable, but we do the best with what we have. I accept the truth that life is uncertain.

So your that close minded and willing to turn your eyes to the elephant in the room, reject the history of the bible, Geographical accuracy,the unwavering amount of fulfilled prophecy in the bible,the archeological finds, the thousands of manuscripts and their proven authenticity, the authority of historians, theologians,oh and did I mention he world's leading and longest standing book ever produced, sold and translated.....the bible...and it's all a lie.

NO, on the contrary. I'm perfectly open to all of these things, if you can show me by evidence that they are true. I have argued each and every one of them with devout Christians, and when we start arguing, it turns out that none of them are true. At least, there is no evidence that they are. Then the Christian will once again retreat to "faith," and admit that they don't believe the Bible because of, but in spite of, the evidence. For example, let's take a key point: the divinity of Jesus. Had the events described in the Gospels actually happened, it is reasonable to suppose that the Historians of the day would have recorded them. But they didn't. There is not a single remotely contemporary record or account of anything in the Gospels, even the supposed slaughter of babies. Not even the census. It's not there. Yet you will cling to your belief, in spite of the facts.

btw, why are you close-minded to the (equally) archeologically and historically supported, and equally accurate prophecy in the Q'uran, the greatest book ever etc., and it's all lies? Not to mention the countless lives that have been radically changed because of this unseen and imaginative thing we call Allah?

Not to mention the countless lives that have been radically changed because of the power of this unseen and imagintive thing, we call God.
So these men and women are all liars and basically have tno credentials..dare to look, or will you make a mockery first and than criticise
Who's Who in Creation/Evolution - CreationSuperLibrary.com
A list of creation scientists who are/have contributed to science

...the only thing left to proof to you this is not a figment of our imaginations and that none of it was a lie ,will be the rapture of the church when Jesus returns. but laugh if you may...the writing is on the wall as we move into these troubled times as recorded in the bible, but again, you won't look into what the bible prophecised about the days where living in and how accurate it is.

What history in fact shows us is one "prophet" after another predicting a specific date for this to happen, and yet it hasn't. If you commit yourself to a date certain, you will be equally wrong. Just think of all the dead people who all earnestly believed this would happen in their lifetimes! Speaking of prophecy, Jesus prophesied it would happen in the generation after His, and yet it didn't. Great prophet you've got there.

......I just ask one thing,please remember our conversations when these lies take place, for they just might become your most dreadful realities.

And when might that be, pray tell?

Tell you what, I'll make a prophecy right now. The rapture will NOT happen at any time that RF exists. Please remember that, and act accordingly.

Now, back to the science, which is what we're supposed to be discussing.

 

[painted wolf]

So seeing is obviously believing for you,

Actually thats how science works. You need to provide evidence and experimental demonstrations/predictions that can be worked with by other scientists.

None of your scientists has done that.

(Just as an interesting aside... the list of creationist scientists may look impressive at first, but in 2006 there were 2.2 million professional scientists in the US. Perhaps this is why ID scientists are so intent on not actually showing any scientific work on ID?)

For all your talk of impending "death by Jesus" you still don't seem to understand that science isn't about 'faith' and feelings... its about cold impersonal facts and demonstrations of those facts.
This is why ID is not a science and will never be a science. If you want to keep it as part of your faith, that is fine. I'm happy for you and your faith. (I too believe in creator) But it isn't science.
Until you come to understand what science is and is not than you simply demonstrate the point the OP was making.

wa:do

 

[Autodidact]

O.K., roli, I randomly clicked on a couple names in your list. John Whitcomb: has degrees in theology. Not a scientist. Theo Agard--can't find anything except an obscure reference to possible retired medical physics. James Allen: Masters in Agriculture. Kurt Wise, who said that, "if all the evidence in the universe turns against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate." He should be forced to turn in his scientist card. Give me a break.

 

[England my lionheart]

I doubt that many will entirely believe TOE until an intermediate Ape-Man is discovered,he fossils discovered so far have all been either Apes or Humans and nothing in between,Lucy was supposed to be the all singing dancing missing link but her bones were discovered over a wide area and she had the jawbone of a Chimp and was dismissed as an intermediate.
Although transitional fossils of other species have been discovered they have nothing in common with us and the amount of fossil bones supporting TOE would'nt fill a coffin=more scientists than fossils so its always going to be an uphill struggle until something concrete is discovered.

 

[Autodidact]

England, I'm sorry, but it's obvious that you haven't a clue what you're talking about, and know nothing about hominid fossils. I will never understand how people who haven't spend five minutes studying something think they know more than people who have spend their entire professional lives. It's just plain arrogance. And it makes a lovely illustration of the OP. Evolution opponents just display their ignorance as if it's something to be proud of. In reality, Lucy is still the best early hominid transitional specimen. Meanwhile, so many others have been discovered that we actually have so many now that it's getting confusing to classify them all. In reality, there are entire museums full of fossils from every time period, literally tons of them, and all of them are intermediate and transitional, just like every species on earth. Have you been reading creationists or something? Because you know that they all lie constantly, right?

For starters, humans are apes. Anyway, which of these are human, which non-human apes, and how did you decide?

(And did you notice that this modest collection of hominid skulls alone would fill a coffin? Really, you should be more careful with your reputation for veracity.)

 

[painted wolf]

You act like Lucy is the only Australopithicus we have... and her jawbone is very unlike a chimps.
Again you don't seem to actually understand the science.

here: Human Ancestors Hall: Tree

here is a helpful image:

Lucy isn't alone... there are at least ten Australopithecus africanus individuals males and females and infants.

Plus there are 23 other species of early hominids.

wa:do

 

[England my lionheart]

Lucy was a small chimp sized ape that may have been able to walk upright,one part of her was found a mile away and the knee was thought at first to be Ape,and all those skulls are Apes with nothing to link them with us other than they walk with there knees to the front.

 

[painted wolf]

so you have no interest in the science or the fact then?

Because you are totally wrong on the story of how they found Lucy...
It was the knee that was found a Kilometer away the rest including the hip, ribs and jaw were found together.
And they have since found other knees with other specimens to show that the match of knee with body was correct.

The knee was never thought to be an Ape knee, they are very dissimilar.

Please check out the link I provided.

wa:do

 

[fantome profane]

Lucy was a small chimp sized ape that may have been able to walk upright,one part of her was found a mile away and the knee was thought at first to be Ape,and all those skulls are Apes with nothing to link them with us other than they walk with there knees to the front.

You are getting your information either directly or indirectly from Kent Hovind. He has told this lie many many times. And yes, it is a complete utter bald faced lie. If you care at all about the truth you will check out this claim for yourself. If you care at all about your reputation you will check this out before you repeat it again.

Don’t believe me about this, do your own research!

 

[England my lionheart]

The point i am making is simple,Lucy(named after the Beatles LSD) has had many explanations to what she may have been and what she was capable of doing and along with all this Johanson said when asked "how far away from Lucy did you find the knee" answer 60 to 70 meters lower in the strata,Johanson has neither admited or refuted this so the Circus continues with discoveries and lots of money being made.

 

[fantome profane]

The point i am making is simple,Lucy(named after the Beatles LSD) has had many explanations to what she may have been and what she was capable of doing and along with all this Johanson said when asked "how far away from Lucy did you find the knee" answer 60 to 70 meters lower in the strata,Johanson has neither admited or refuted this so the Circus continues with discoveries and lots of money being made.

The only point you are succeeding in making is that you don’t really know what you are talking about.

 

[painted wolf]

So forgetting about Lucy, what about Selam?
Selam (Australopithecus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

What about Turkana boy?
Turkana Boy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is just an ape?

wa:do

 

[challupa]

Anyone read this paper by a professor at the U of Manitoba. It might explain a few things to anyone who hasn't read it.

The Authoritarians

It helped me understand a few things better.

 

[England my lionheart]

So forgetting about Lucy, what about Selam?
Selam (Australopithecus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

What about Turkana boy?
Turkana Boy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is just an ape?

wa:do

Looks de-feeted to me

 

[painted wolf]

so what?
The best evidence for upright walking is in the knees, hips, spine and skull.

so? just an ape? He is as tall as a modern man and built quite like one too.

wa:do

 

[Autodidact]

Lucy was a small chimp sized ape that may have been able to walk upright,one part of her was found a mile away and the knee was thought at first to be Ape,and all those skulls are Apes with nothing to link them with us other than they walk with there knees to the front.

Is this your response to my image? Your answer is that none of them are proto-hominid; all are non-human apes? Is that your answer?

Can you cite any scientific source for your assertion about Lucy?

 

[Autodidact]

England, it's like this. You haven't a clue. Not a whiff of an iota of a penumbra of a jot of a clue. You know next to nothing about hominid paleontology. So, given that, what makes you think you're more of an expert resource than the people who have devoted their lives to studying it?

 

[England my lionheart]

England, it's like this. You haven't a clue. Not a whiff of an iota of a penumbra of a jot of a clue. You know next to nothing about hominid paleontology. So, given that, what makes you think you're more of an expert resource than the people who have devoted their lives to studying it?

I am obviously no expert or a scientist but i know evidence and fact to be two different things like in the case of Selam,nobody is bragging much about it because of the feet which are still in sandstone and are significant,the upper torso and fingers are chimp like and the part between the pelvis and fee show evedence of bipedalism but without the feet being freed from the sandstone it is'nt certain that this is true.
There are people like you the world over,you just accept what you are told,i am neither religious or scientific but as has been said before in this thread Toe is neither a fact or a theory its a calculated guess because if it were as cut and dried as you would have us all believe there could be no argument could there or thread.