Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

[McBell]

These are your beliefs about the book. You are demonstrating a close mind to actually consider or study what we believe about the book.

I have not expressed any opinion whatsoever about a book in this thread.

I was open minded enough to accept that possibility and study if that is true or not.

No, you were not.
You flat refused to answer the question and went to lengths to divert away from the question.

Accepting it just to accept it is not acceptable in Islam. So there is no blind faith.

I am no longer interested in playing with your strawman.

 

[Sabour]

what story?
sorry for going off topic. the OP focuses on the capability to judge a religion (or God's decisions, whatever) with your reason, with your brain.

because faith means to accept passively any religious dogma and\or any God's decision.

now I am asking you: does your brain tells you that killing is always wrong? even if it's God who asks for it?

Hay, sorry I find your question impossible, I can't answer that because God would never ask me to kill someone. Do you think I am blind to think that?

 

[Sabour]

I have not expressed any opinion whatsoever about a book in this thread.


No, you were not.
You flat refused to answer the question and went to lengths to divert away from the question.


I am no longer interested in playing with your strawman.

But I am not doing that Mestemia.

I am answering what the thread actually addresses.

 

[McBell]

But I am not doing that Mestemia.

Yes you are.
You switched mid stream to your diversion in order to avoid the tangent which shows your closed mindedness.

I am answering what the thread actually addresses.

Yes, in a blatant diversion from the question you flat out refuse to answer.
Thus the strawman I referred to.

 

[Etritonakin]

Real, true faith does quite the opposite. It is not "blind" as many understand it to be. Having not seen something does not mean one does not know something without doubt.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled,...
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith:
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


Science builds its knowledge base by making assumptions based on that which is known -and then seeks to prove them true or false. Would that be considered closed-minded?

If you consider those who had great faith in the bible -it normally -perhaps even always -began with something very real -and built on that foundation.

 

[Sabour]

Yes you are.
You switched mid stream to your diversion in order to avoid the tangent which shows your closed mindedness.


Yes, in a blatant diversion from the question you flat out refuse to answer.
Thus the strawman I referred to.

Well than I guess the only thing I can answer with is to repeat that the question was illogical and I don't have to accept illogical things to be open minded.

It is like asking me what if God was human. This is an impossibility, so is the question.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

Ok so then we have another verse I was just looking at the other day:

Romans 9:20
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

That my friends is what you call a massive contradiction. How could these two verses possibly work together? What, one day you can reason with God, the next day he makes up his mind and you can no longer reason with them? So you helped him to get to a point of view that you can no longer contest?

 

[Estro Felino]

Ok so then we have another verse I was just looking at the other day:

Romans 9:20
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

That my friends is what you call a massive contradiction. How could these two verses possibly work together? What, one day you can reason with God, the next day he makes up his mind and you can no longer reason with them? So you helped him to get to a point of view that you can no longer contest?

yes...the Bible is full of contradictions and you gave a perfect example.
well...Saint Paul contradicts lots of Christ's teachings....
men have freedom of thought. and Paul did too. so Paul expressed his personal belief which was different than Christ's teachings.

Paul still thought of a tyrant-God...a God that wants to be adored .

Christ said that it doesn't matter if we don't show respect to God. all that matters is that we love our neighbor and we do his will (parable of the vineyard and the 2 sons)

 

[Sabour]

Ok so then we have another verse I was just looking at the other day:

Romans 9:20
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

That my friends is what you call a massive contradiction. How could these two verses possibly work together? What, one day you can reason with God, the next day he makes up his mind and you can no longer reason with them? So you helped him to get to a point of view that you can no longer contest?

I am not a believer in the bible, but to be fair to the bible, I think one should look at the context at both verses.

Not that I looked into it, but my guess is that the first verse is talking about people who are looking for the truth and searching for answers while the verse you quoted would be about people who know that God exists and question his decisions, like why God chose that instead of that.

That may make a little difference for now, but I believe that context should be provided to know whether it is a contradiction or not.

 

[YmirGF]

But I am not doing that Mestemia.

I am answering what the thread actually addresses.

The utter irony of a person with the tag "One-answer" claiming that they are open-minded is, blissfully unintentional hilarity.

Forgive me if I don't check your response right away because I'm off the the repair shop to get my Irony Meter fixed.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

That may make a little difference for now, but I believe that context should be provided to know whether it is a contradiction or not.

If Jesus and Paul can just pull out random verses and promote them as individual memes, then we can also reach into that same soup and analyze whichever ingredient we like. If you leave Isaiah 1:18 in context, it is actually worse. God is being sarcastic! If you pull it out and shine it off free from the context of the psychopathy, that is actually what redeems the verse.

Reasoning with someone else does not mean that the other person has the truth, and if it does they are instead trying to convince you of something, there is no co-determination involved in that. So what the verse should of said, and maybe does say that depending on interpretation, is 'let us sit down together and I will convince you of my view.' Because in the verses afterword, the deity appears to project threats. So I guess that actually proves me wrong, there is no massive contradiction, but massive obstinance in both places.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

yes...the Bible is full of contradictions and you gave a perfect example.
well...Saint Paul contradicts lots of Christ's teachings....
men have freedom of thought. and Paul did too. so Paul expressed his personal belief which was different than Christ's teachings.

Yeah and I think the personal belief thing may have just kept snowballing and snowballing after that. I was just reading some of the determinations by Pope Gregory the great for example. I had never read any of the things he was going on about as being even addressed by Jesus or Paul. The whole thing just compounds into something else I guess, unless some of these post-apostle things are meant to be canonized as well.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yeah and I think the personal belief thing may have just kept snowballing and snowballing after that. I was just reading some of the determinations by Pope Gregory the great for example. I had never read any of the things he was going on about as being even addressed by Jesus or Paul. The whole thing just compounds into something else I guess, unless some of these post-apostle things are meant to be canonized as well.

May I ask you something? And I expect you to give me an answer that comes from the bottom of your heart. and to use your mind, without being influenced by anyone else.

do you think it is wrong to love your neighbor as much as you love yourself?

I assure you that nobody, neither me nor you needs a book or a religion to know the truth. The truth is in your heart.

 

[Estro Felino]

I am not a believer in the bible, but to be fair to the bible, I think one should look at the context at both verses.

Not that I looked into it, but my guess is that the first verse is talking about people who are looking for the truth and searching for answers while the verse you quoted would be about people who know that God exists and question his decisions, like why God chose that instead of that.

That may make a little difference for now, but I believe that context should be provided to know whether it is a contradiction or not.

One answer...there's nothing wrong with admitting that you blindly trust God and that you would never question his decisions.
That's admirable.

 

[Sleeppy]

Ok so then we have another verse I was just looking at the other day:

Romans 9:20
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

That my friends is what you call a massive contradiction. How could these two verses possibly work together? What, one day you can reason with God, the next day he makes up his mind and you can no longer reason with them? So you helped him to get to a point of view that you can no longer contest?

There are contradictions in almost any great text.. But, try reading the chapters. What is Isaiah saying they should "reason" about, in chapter 1? What is Paul saying in Chapter 9?

 

[idea]

Our mind, our ability to reason - to be self-aware, is amazing. It is because of our mind and our ability to think & act that I believe there is more to us than matter, that I believe in, call it what you will, mind/intelligence/conscience/life/spirit.

 

[Sabour]

The utter irony of a person with the tag "One-answer" claiming that they are open-minded is, blissfully unintentional hilarity.

Forgive me if I don't check your response right away because I'm off the the repair shop to get my Irony Meter fixed.

Ymir, there is a one answer for every question. There is a reality.

Claiming that there is no answer for things and being open to every possibility doesn't always mean you are open minded. It means you are confused. Sorry for not being confused Ymir.

 

[Sabour]

If Jesus and Paul can just pull out random verses and promote them as individual memes, then we can also reach into that same soup and analyze whichever ingredient we like. If you leave Isaiah 1:18 in context, it is actually worse. God is being sarcastic! If you pull it out and shine it off free from the context of the psychopathy, that is actually what redeems the verse.

Reasoning with someone else does not mean that the other person has the truth, and if it does they are instead trying to convince you of something, there is no co-determination involved in that. So what the verse should of said, and maybe does say that depending on interpretation, is 'let us sit down together and I will convince you of my view.' Because in the verses afterword, the deity appears to project threats. So I guess that actually proves me wrong, there is no massive contradiction, but massive obstinance in both places.

If a teacher with PhD told a 5th grader sit down and let me explain things out for you, would you find it wrong ?

 

[Sabour]

One answer...there's nothing wrong with admitting that you blindly trust God and that you would never question his decisions.

That's admirable. It means that you are a true God's servant.
But please: admit that yours is blind faith.

Hay, you have no reason to trust me on what I say, but my blind is not a blind faith.

Even blind faith is not acceptable in Islam.

I think you should know me by know Hay. I don't try to sell my belief by lying about it. I would never lie about my beliefs for any reason

 

[sojourner]

It still sounds against logic. I deeply respect your view (which is the view of the entire Christendom).
It's like you said that full humanity inevitably implies evil and "hurting other people". That's not truth. Saints have never hurt anyone in their lives.
He didn't want to suffer (who would?) but the other people's free will was stronger.
I don't want to go off topic...but it is obvious that there are things in the Bible we shouldn't accept blindly

Few (if any!) things in the bible should be accepted blindly.