Faith, ignorance and education.

[Skeptisch]

Religious faith rules mainly in the third world. This goes hand in hand with poverty and a lack education. The United States of North America and Cuba, and probably some other nations, are bucking this trend.

Why are so many wealthy and educated Americans listening to and believing in pretenders who claim to know the unknowable, also known as the supernatural?

And why, on the other hand, is a poverty stricken country like Cuba able to guarantee its citizens healthcare, housing and an excellent education with an emphasis on science, reason and objective reality. How do they manage that?
:soccer:

 

[sandandfoam]

Don't get me wrong - I'm a fan of Cuba. But faith in science reason and objective reality (whatever that is) is still faith.
We all believe in something, be it our soccer team, our government or our church.

I believe religious faith can be a useful tool in our psychological armoury. I don't see it as inherently bad.

 

[Skeptisch]

But faith in science reason and objective reality (whatever that is) is still faith.
We all believe in something, be it our soccer team, our government or our church.

You illustrate the problem perfectly. Science has not managed to educate and illustrate the difference between a belief in scientific evidence and any other belief. And that is a tragedy.

It is like saying objective reality is the same as a reality that exists only in ones head. It is like saying Einstein’s natural God, who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, is still a God even though it is the opposite of the supernatural dictator that many religious people believe in.

Having faith in faith is the opposite from having faith in scientific evidence.

 

[footprints]

Religious faith rules mainly in the third world. This goes hand in hand with poverty and a lack education. The United States of North America and Cuba, and probably some other nations, are bucking this trend.

Why are so many wealthy and educated Americans listening to and believing in pretenders who claim to know the unknowable, also known as the supernatural?

And why, on the other hand, is a poverty stricken country like Cuba able to guarantee its citizens healthcare, housing and an excellent education with an emphasis on science, reason and objective reality. How do they manage that?
:soccer:

So if I understand you correctly, you are advocating that Cubans are far more intelligent than US residents? That people in the US are somehow stupid from your logic? Sheesh, I think I have heard it all now.

The extremist irrationalist (extreme atheism) who will say categorically, God doesn't exist, has just as much Blind Faith as anyone where they claim to know the unknowable. So I know exactly where you are coming from pertaining to people who do this.

 

[darkendless]

The extremist irrationalist (extreme atheism) who will say categorically, God doesn't exist, has just as much Blind Faith as anyone where they claim to know the unknowable. So I know exactly where you are coming from pertaining to people who do this.

But there is 0 evidence for god, only speculation and "scripture" which is poor evidence.

 

[footprints]

But there is 0 evidence for god, only speculation and "scripture" which is poor evidence.

And there is zero evidence or contradictory evidence for the non belief in a deity. The null and the alternative hypothesis just doesn't cut it. So it takes a blind faith either way.

 

[darkendless]

And there is zero evidence or contradictory evidence for the non belief in a deity. The null and the alternative hypothesis just doesn't cut it. So it takes a blind faith either way.

Yes but what logical reason is there to believe in God?

Lack of belief in God is not blind faith, its simply taking the evidence at hand, seems logical.

 

[footprints]

Yes but what logical reason is there to believe in God?

Lack of belief in God is not blind faith, its simply taking the evidence at hand, seems logical.

What logical reason is there to be believe in God?
What logical reason is there not to believe in a Diety?

Sorry I cannot answer either of these questions. I do not have a belief one way or the other. You should ask believers these questions.

Lack of belief, is lack of belief or having no belief. I am not referring the Atheist who has no belief, only the extremist irrationalist, who has the belief that a deity doesn't exist, based on a lack of evidence. If evidence is lacking, faith and blind faith at that, is all that is left for them to hold their belief.

 

[Madasin]

I have never experienced seeing a ghost therefore I don’t believe in ghosts but some other people do and I respect that. However I have experienced what some might call the mystical and others might call madness. Because of this, and the fact that I’m not locked up in a lunatic asylum, I do believe in God. Not the God of the bible but a universal God; something more than and higher than myself. I feel a benevolent force in the universe.

Something like this - (I found this on the net and it kinda helps me explain what I mean - kinda.)

“A couple of thousand years ago the Roman and Greek empires had as the supreme being in their religious pantheon, Zeus, today the Zeus and all the other Gods of this long gone religion are called 'myths' and in another couple of thousand years, maybe sooner, our view of God will most likely have died out and become a 'myth' also.

The point is even if in the future we are worshiping a giant potato head as the supreme creator it will still be the same thing - by any other name a rose will still smell as sweet. And by any other name God will still be as powerful. It is still the same thing no matter what you call it, or how you envision it.

This thing, this 'God' is within you. It is within all of us. call it what you will, visualise it anyway you want. Call it 'He' call it 'She' call it 'It'. It makes no difference it is the same thing no matter what name you give it. Even if you say you don't believe in it, it doesn't matter - that won't make it go away. It is a part of you, a part of all of us.”

 

[challupa]

I have never experienced seeing a ghost therefore I don’t believe in ghosts but some other people do and I respect that. However I have experienced what some might call the mystical and others might call madness. Because of this, and the fact that I’m not locked up in a lunatic asylum, I do believe in God. Not the God of the bible but a universal God; something more than and higher than myself. I feel a benevolent force in the universe.

Something like this - (I found this on the net and it kinda helps me explain what I mean - kinda.)

“A couple of thousand years ago the Roman and Greek empires had as the supreme being in their religious pantheon, Zeus, today the Zeus and all the other Gods of this long gone religion are called 'myths' and in another couple of thousand years, maybe sooner, our view of God will most likely have died out and become a 'myth' also.

The point is even if in the future we are worshiping a giant potato head as the supreme creator it will still be the same thing - by any other name a rose will still smell as sweet. And by any other name God will still be as powerful. It is still the same thing no matter what you call it, or how you envision it.

This thing, this 'God' is within you. It is within all of us. call it what you will, visualise it anyway you want. Call it 'He' call it 'She' call it 'It'. It makes no difference it is the same thing no matter what name you give it. Even if you say you don't believe in it, it doesn't matter - that won't make it go away. It is a part of you, a part of all of us.”

Welcome to RF!! Good post btw

 

[The Voice of Reason]

What logical reason is there to be believe in God?
What logical reason is there not to believe in a Diety?

Sorry I cannot answer either of these questions. I do not have a belief one way or the other. You should ask believers these questions.

Agnosticism at its finest.

 

[Skeptisch]

... Cubans are far more intelligent than US residents? ...people in the US are somehow stupid...

:no::no::no::no::no:

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Intelligence is not limited by geographic areas. I am sure there are quite a few intelligent people in Cuba, just as sure as there are many ignorant people in the US. There are people who have faith in science in the US and faith in religion. Science pulls for the betterment of the physical world, religion for the soul. Which is right and wrong is up to the individual. You can have both.

3rd world countries will advance, and there is no shortage for help to them.

 

[Baydwin]

Why are so many wealthy and educated Americans listening to and believing in pretenders who claim to know the unknowable, also known as the supernatural?

Your history. We got rid of a lot of our religious wackos, like the Puritans, by letting them sail off to the New World. When you found a nation with a population that already has a larger than usual percentage of extremely religious people, the trend would be for the society to maintain that higher than usual percentage.

 

[footprints]

:no::no::no::no::no:

It is good to see you have come back to reason and dropped that other garbage you were trying to promote.

 

[footprints]

Agnosticism at its finest.

Sigh, the reasonable position can often be the most unreasonable position to believers.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

When you found a nation with a population that already has a larger than usual percentage of extremely religious people, the trend would be for the society to maintain that higher than usual percentage.

Speaking of "Faith, ignorance and education," someones needs a remedial history course. Please demonstrate that the founding population of the US was more "extremely religious" than those of their homeland.

 

[Baydwin]

Speaking of "Faith, ignorance and education," someones needs a remedial history course. Please demonstrate that the founding population of the US was more "extremely religious" than those of their homeland.

You've not heard of the Puritans who left England in large numbers and spread throughout the thirteen colonies?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You've not heard of the Puritans who left England in large numbers and spread throughout the thirteen colonies?

Again: please demonstrate that the founding population of the US was more "extremely religious" than those of their homeland. If you're having trouble understanding the request I'll gladly reword it ... :yes:

 

[Baydwin]

Again: please demonstrate that the founding population of the US was more "extremely religious" than those of their homeland. If you're having trouble understanding the request I'll gladly reword it ... :yes:

The reason the Puritans and other religious groups left Europe was because they believed the Reformation had not gone far enough. That they were small groups in Europe meant their voices could be ignored, so they emigrated to America where the population was far smaller (about 700,000). Now those smaller groups (about 20,000 Puritans alone) became a far greater percentage of the population than they had been in Europe, similar to a bottleneck or "founder effect" within biology.

This meant their values were more influential and could be disseminated at a far greater rate. The increased religiosity of the Puritans and other immigrant religious groups inspired the First Great Awakening, which started the mass evangelising efforts which spread Protestant Christianity across the States. It was also partially in response to the later domination of the New England region by a strict Puritanism that led to the South instigating the American Civil War.

Meanwhile, the Enlightenment was eroding the strict and literal faith left in Europe encouraging more emigration to the New World. The Enlightenment came to America with other immigrants of course, but it's effect was buffered somewhat by the presence of such a high religiosity in the native population, which is why America is still more religious today than is Europe.