Faith in Christ is Completely Logical

[Sapiens]

I don't recall losing. I think that is something you hold by faith in your own arguments.

One definition from Encarta is:

''keep faith with somebody or something to be loyal or true to a person or promise ''

What about 'keep faith with a bus turning up'. You do not know until it does. Me win I think.

As I recall you were the one who believed the schedule and I was the one who said it was not there until it arrived (this being a routine problem here on the Big Island). Me thinks you are prematurely senile. If you want to base your use of language on the fifth meaning listed in an obsolete (2001) and poorly respected dictionary that has a current value of less than a dollar ... go ahead, even so I will bet it could teach you the difference between apples and oranges.

 

[Sapiens]

I have posted a link to a full description of the plan of redemption, that you have not bothered to follow it and read it is your problem. What is even more incredible is that you are here trying to demonstrate that God is a load of old hogwash yet you do not know what the plan of salvation is. That amazes me. But you are not on your own, none of the atheists here know what the plan of redemption is, yet they claim that God is a fairy tale. Now that is true bigotry.

If god does not exist that he/she/it can't make a plan. Correct?

 

[Desert Snake]

If god does not exist that he/she/it can't make a plan. Correct?

So you think everything is chaos? How could you come to that conclusion? That's not what I observe. Oh, btw, are you a 'big bang' theory proponent, out of curiosity.

 

[Sapiens]

More on faith:



“It is likely that some people use their ideas about science to make sense of the world and for emotional compensation in difficult situations in the same way that religious people use their supernatural beliefs,” Farias says. “Our findings suggest that it may be belief itself, regardless of its content, that helps people deal with adverse situations.”

Now research suggests that some people's faith in science may serve the same role.

How Science Mimics Faith - Scientific American

I don't doubt for a minute that there are some people who see the world that way, they're off base ... not as far off base as you and your fellow invisible friend worshipers are, but still, off base.

 

[Robert.Evans]

As I recall you were the one who believed the schedule and I was the one who said it was not there until it arrived (this being a routine problem here on the Big Island). Me thinks you are prematurely senile.

I am trying to keep up with you...

If you want to base your use of language on the fifth meaning listed in an obsolete (2001) and poorly respected dictionary that has a current value of less than a dollar ... go ahead, even so I will bet it could teach you the difference between apples and oranges.

I have even heard scientists say that they have to use faith. They have to have faith in everything. Either way, the bus not being there till it arrived..... if you wait for it, you would require faith. If not, what is it? Observational evidence.. haha

 

[Robert.Evans]

If god does not exist that he/she/it can't make a plan. Correct?

And if he does he can, so what?

 

[Sapiens]

So you think everything is chaos? How could you come to that conclusion? That's not what I observe. Oh, btw, are you a 'big bang' theory proponent, out of curiosity.

No I do not think that everything is chaos, I just don't buy the argument from ignorance that if there is any degree of order in the universe there must be a god. Order does not require a god just as a god (at least mythological speaking) hardly assures order.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I don't doubt for a minute that there are some people who see the world that way, they're off base ... not as far off base as you and your fellow invisible friend worshipers are, but still, off base.

Oh, okay, so you see that others say it... but they are all wrong. And don't forget the believers are wrong as well. Your group must be pretty small I think. Plenty of room on the bus though eh, mind you, I forgot... you wouldn't wait would you...haha

 

[Robert.Evans]

No I do not think that everything is chaos

And why does order not require a God, in other words intelligence? You will use your artificial intelligence which you will call processes I suppose, under the banner of ''natural'', .... somehow within all of that, you seem to think youv'e cracked it. Yet what makes these processes work the way they do. Chaos just got lucky?!?

 

[Sapiens]

I am trying to keep up with you...

Don't bother trying, you're clearly not equipped for it,

I have even heard scientists say that they have to use faith. They have to have faith in everything.

And I've heard theists say that "God is dead." So what? I'd suggest that most scientists are using "faith" as a way to express an apprehension of a high probability.

Either way, the bus not being there till it arrived..... if you wait for it, you would require faith. If not, what is it? Observational evidence. haha

Again, an apprehension of a high probability. As time wears on, and the bus does not appear, the probability that it will drops and when you have decided that the likelihood of it appearing is sufficiently low, you make a new plan. You'd probably call that "loosing faith," but then I rather doubt that you've thought about this before now.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Don't bother trying, you're clearly not equipped for it,
And I've heard theists say that "God is dead." So what? I'd suggest that most scientists are using "faith" as a way to express an apprehension of a high probability.
Again, an apprehension of a high probability. As time wears on, and the bus does not appear, the probability that it will drops and when you have decided that the likelihood of it appearing is sufficiently low, you make a new plan. You'd probably call that "loosing faith," but then I rather doubt that you've thought about this before now.

Okay, your point is good. But it still requires faith to remain for the bus which is late. That is something you will not accept for some reason.

 

[Desert Snake]

No I do not think that everything is chaos, I just don't buy the argument from ignorance that if there is any degree of order in the universe there must be a god. Order does not require a god just as a god (at least mythological speaking) hardly assures order.

No, doesn't require, and in fact some mythologies don't have the 'deity first' idea anyways. However, it's a good probability.
Hmm pure chaos--> not what I observe, but I do observe a 'physical' universe, this doesn't add up to your theories. We should have different observations from a 'random' event(s).

 

[Sapiens]

Okay, your point is good. But it still requires faith to remain for the bus which is late. That is something you will not accept for some reason.

Yes my point is good, thank you for acknowledging that, my respect for you has increased, now don't destroy it by weaseling the discussion into a stupid semantic game, you stop waiting for the bus when some preset probability threshold is passed, based on what is likely a much more complex mutivariate analysis than you realize ... most people would find it easier to just say that they'd "lost faith" that the bus was coming, but if you carefully examine what's really going on, it is not a question of faith it is a question of "expected value."

 

[Sapiens]

No, doesn't require, and in fact some mythologies don't have the 'deity first' idea anyways. However, it's a good probability.
Hmm pure chaos--> not what I observe, but I do observe a 'physical' universe, this doesn't add up to your theories. We should have different observations from a 'random' event(s).

The physical universe should not "add up" to my theories. My theories will not add up to the entire physical universe, but they will fit into the observed universe completely and without contradiction and they will provide testable predictions.

 

[Desert Snake]

The physical universe should not "add up" to my theories. My theories will not add up to the entire physical universe, but they will fit into the observed universe completely and without contradiction and they will provide testable predictions.

Mmkay..I'll just assume you mean this in the sense that you present all the beliefs you hold, because otherwise the 'debate' isn't accurate.
Anyways, how does what is essentially chaos origin theory add up to anything we observe, it doesn't to me unless I really go theoretical.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Yes my point is good, thank you for acknowledging that, my respect for you has increased, now don't destroy it by weaseling the discussion into a stupid semantic game, you stop waiting for the bus when some preset probability threshold is passed, based on what is likely a much more complex mutivariate analysis than you realize ... most people would find it easier to just say that they'd "lost faith" that the bus was coming, but if you carefully examine what's really going on, it is not a question of faith it is a question of "expected value."

haha... ''expected value'', and you excuse me of semantics? It is still faith plain and simple. It is thee sir who are playing the games, as you do not wish to be seen as no different than the people you argue with.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Yes my point is good, thank you for acknowledging that, my respect for you has increased, now don't destroy it by weaseling the discussion into a stupid semantic game, you stop waiting for the bus when some preset probability threshold is passed, based on what is likely a much more complex mutivariate analysis than you realize ... most people would find it easier to just say that they'd "lost faith" that the bus was coming, but if you carefully examine what's really going on, it is not a question of faith it is a question of "expected value."

So if you have a car..... you have no faith that it will start in the morning if you were going to work? Is that right? So what do you do, leave it running.

 

[Robert.Evans]

The physical universe should not "add up" to my theories. My theories will not add up to the entire physical universe, but they will fit into the observed universe completely and without contradiction and they will provide testable predictions.

You cannot test the big bang.

 

[Sapiens]

haha... ''expected value'', and you excuse me of semantics? It is still faith plain and simple. It is thee sir who are playing the games, as you do not wish to be seen as no different than the people you argue with.

"Expected value" is a defined statistical term, look it up.

 

[Sapiens]

You cannot test the big bang.

Yet.