Faith in Christ is Completely Logical

[Sonofason]

Others have to be able to reproduce his results, or they are bogus.

*

No, not bogus, just unsupported.

 

[Ingledsva]

May I please see some examples of bible thumping proselytizing Christians, spamming you with sermons, that you are referring to? I'd like to determine for myself if this is a prevalent occurrence, or simply something you're presently conjuring up.

Dude - we have had several Christians come in and spam us with 4,- 5, - even 6 page long sermons, - usually copy-pasted from some religious site.

You have been here a year - so YOU have to have seen them!

*

 

[Sonofason]

Dude - we have had several Christians come in and spam us with 4,- 5, - even 6 page long sermons, - usually copy-pasted from some religious site.

You have been here a year - so YOU have to have seen them!

*

That is very weak evidence, hearsay at this point.

I have no doubt that this sometimes happens, but I can imagine that many atheist might view any biblical quote as an attempt of proselytizing, even when such quotes may have indeed been presented as evidence to support an argument.

 

[Sonofason]

The appropriate name to call me is Sonofason, when addressing me.

 

[Sapiens]

The appropriate name to call me is Sonofason, when addressing me.

Why's that? You a Parrot Head? Son-of-a-son (of a sailor)?

As the Sonofason of a sailor,
I went out on the sea for adventure,
Expanding their view of the captain and crew
Like a man just released from indenture.

As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man,
I have chalked up many a mile.
Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks,
And I've learned much from both of their styles.

Sonofason, Sonofason, Sonofason of a sailor.
Son of a gun; load the last ton
One step ahead of the jailer.

Now away in the near future, southeast of disorder,
You can shake the hand of the mango man
As he greets you at the border.

And the lady she hails from Trinidad,
Island of the spices.
Salt for your meat and cinnamon sweet,
And the rum is for all your good vices.

Haul the sheet in as we ride on the wind that our
Forefathers harnessed before us.
Hear the bells ring as the tide rigging sings.
It's a son of a gun of a chorus.

Where it all ends I can't fathom, my friends.
If I knew, I might toss out my anchor.
So I'll cruise along always searchin' for songs,
Not a lawyer, a thief or a banker.

But a Sonofason, Sonofason, Sonofason, of a sailor.
Son of a gun, load the last ton
One step ahead of the jailer
I'm just a Sonofason, Sonofason, Sonofason of a sailor
The sea's in my veins, my tradition remains.
I'm just glad I don't live in a trailer.

 

[McBell]

No one is saying they are not allowed here, nor that they are not welcome. It is just that is our subject, not theirs, therefore our house and not theirs.

This thread is in General Religious Debates.

To use this "house" analogy General Religious Debates is a common area.
If you want to have a discussion without all the non-choir members attending, try one of the DIRs

 

[Cephus]

Yeah that's it. I'm losing, and I don't want to play anymore.

Hardly a surprise, most theists are like that. They get to a certain point and cannot go on because to continue would require they acknowledge their beliefs are false.

 

[McBell]

I am not here to convince anyone to receive or accept the Christian message.

It is a good thing too, cause you suck at convincing anyone not already convinced.

I'm here to dash and destroy the atheist message.

And you suck even worse at that...

 

[Sapiens]

I am not here to convince anyone to receive or accept the Christian message. I'm here to dash and destroy the atheist message.

I'm feeling neither dashed nor destroyed, how 'bout the rest of you?

 

[Sonofason]

Why's that? You a Parrot Head? Son-of-a-son (of a sailor)?

As the Sonofason of a sailor,
I went out on the sea for adventure,
Expanding their view of the captain and crew
Like a man just released from indenture.

As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man,
I have chalked up many a mile.
Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks,
And I've learned much from both of their styles.

Sonofason, Sonofason, Sonofason of a sailor.
Son of a gun; load the last ton
One step ahead of the jailer.

Now away in the near future, southeast of disorder,
You can shake the hand of the mango man
As he greets you at the border.

And the lady she hails from Trinidad,
Island of the spices.
Salt for your meat and cinnamon sweet,
And the rum is for all your good vices.

Haul the sheet in as we ride on the wind that our
Forefathers harnessed before us.
Hear the bells ring as the tide rigging sings.
It's a son of a gun of a chorus.

Where it all ends I can't fathom, my friends.
If I knew, I might toss out my anchor.
So I'll cruise along always searchin' for songs,
Not a lawyer, a thief or a banker.

But a Sonofason, Sonofason, Sonofason, of a sailor.
Son of a gun, load the last ton
One step ahead of the jailer
I'm just a Sonofason, Sonofason, Sonofason of a sailor
The sea's in my veins, my tradition remains.
I'm just glad I don't live in a trailer.

Sorry, I can't take credit for that.

There are many Sons of sons.

 

[Sonofason]

Hardly a surprise, most theists are like that. They get to a certain point and cannot go on because to continue would require they acknowledge their beliefs are false.

Actually, I was referring to the beaten down subject of whose house this is, which is no longer constructive within the domain of this thread.

 

[Ingledsva]

Ok, I fully get that your faith assures you that there is God and that Jesus is God's Son. I get it when you say that anyone that knows the son knows the Father.

To believe in God is through faith. No belief can transcend that faith. Although faith and Grace are two sides of a coin they are totally different. What you call Grace has always been there from mankind's beginning. Jesus just made Grace evident and Christianity capitalized on Grace.

Gnosis, signifying a spiritual knowledge, a sense of mystical enlightenment or insight. Google

I've explored this from the NAB1970 footnotes already. So, here it is again.

John 1: 14; The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we have seen his glory: the glory of an only Son coming from the Father, filled with enduring love.

ff:
p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 120%; }
Ex.; John 1; In the beginning was the Word; the Word was in God's presence, and the Word was God. NAB1970.
ff: "1, 1-18: . . . Commentators are divided on whether the initial reference to the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ is in 1,9 or 1,14." Ibid.
ff: "1, 9: The earlier versions make every man (instead of the light) the subject of coming into the world." Ibid.
ff: "1, 14: Made his dwelling: literally, "set up his tent, or tabernacle." In the Exodus the tabernacle or tent of meeting was the site of God's dwelling among men (Ex 25, 8f); now that site is the Word-made-flesh. Glory: the glory of God (the visible manifestation of his majesty in power), which once filled the tabernacle (Ex 40, 34) and the temple (1 Kgs 8, 10f.27), is now centered in Jesus. Filled with enduring love: It is not clear whether filled modifies glory or Word or only Son. The two words love and enduring (often translated "grace and truth") represent two Old Testament terms used to describe the dealings of the God of the covenant with Israel (Ex 34, 6); love signifying God's love in choosing Israel and his steadfast expression of that love in the covenant; enduring signifying his faithfulness to his covenant promises. Jesus is a new manifestation of God's covenant, enduring love, replacing the Old; cf v 16."

p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 120%; }
John 1: 14:

God manifested in Jesus or that Jesus is the manifestation of God. Jesus is a new manifestation of God's covenant, "enduring love."


1 Timothy 3:16; "Wonderful, indeed, is the mystery of our faith, as we say in professing it: "He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the spirit; Seen by the angels; preached among the Gentiles, Believed in throughout the world, taken up into glory.""


Why then do believers find no fault in the Bible. Take 1 Timothy 3:16 and I apply your insistence on Jesus' divinity when I can interpret 3:16 to say: 1) "Mystery," "designates the secret that was hidden in divine wisdom during previous centuries and only revealed in Messianic times, i.e., that the redemption of all men is accomplished by Christ and is attained through union with Christ." JBC[57:21:9]. 2) "Flesh," "meaning human nature." 3) "Vindicated," [Justified] "meaning just," "[not] the usual Pauline meaning of purified from sin,"JBC[57:21:9]. 4) "Spirit," "The justice and divinity of Christ were manifested in a special way through the operation of the Holy Spirit in the glorious resurrection of Christ." JBC[57:22:16].


1 Timothy 3: 16: “3,14ff: . . . The care he must exercise over this community is required by the profound nature of Christianity. It centers in Christ, preexistent but appearing in human flesh; the goodness of his mortal existence was verified by the Holy Spirit; the mystery of his Person was revealed to the angels, announced to the Gentiles, and accepted by them in faith. He himself was returned (through his resurrection and ascension) to the divine glory that is properly his (v 16). . . . “


The manifestations of God are represented by the prophets. Jesus represented a manifestation of God, as a prophet, in the "flesh," as the "mystery," justified by the Spirit (God's "hidden divine wisdom") "taken up into glory" ("the visible manifestation" NAB1970, John 1: 14.)


Jesus, not Jesus the Christ but, Jesus as the Christ (Tillich), a manifestation of God.


"The many different meanings of the term "Word" [six] are all united in one meaning, namely, "God manifest"--manifest in himself, in creation, in the history of revelation, in the final revelation, in the Bible, in the words of the church and her members. "God manifest"--the mystery of the divine abyss expressing itself through the divine Logos--this is the meaning of the symbol, the "Word of God." Systematic Theology, Paul Tillich, Vol. I, p. 159.

Christianity makes Jesus divine but in reality what Jesus manifested was the "Word of God." The manifestation is Jesus as the Christ.

I'm glad you put in that "every man" info. Quite awhile back I put in a translation which shows how differently this can be read.

1 Within the First Estate/Principle exists the (logos)(incantation)/Divine command/Computation/law, and the Divine command/Computation/law exists within the Divinity, and the Divinity exists as the Divine command/Computation/law.

2 The same, exists within the First Estate/Principle (as) within the Divinity.

3 All through It came into being; and separate from its existence not one came to being.

4 Within itself life(spark) existed; and the life(spark) existed to manifest/illuminate the Anthropos/human being.

*

 

[Cephus]

Actually, I was referring to the beaten down subject of whose house this is, which is no longer constructive within the domain of this thread.

It doesn't matter whose house it is. The OP was over 1100 posts ago, it's been talked to death, now we're talking about other related subjects. That's how forums operate. Surprised you didn't realize that.

 

[Sonofason]

It is a good thing too, cause you suck at convincing anyone not already convinced.

Yes, well that is all very well and good. Thankfully convincing you of the existence of God is not my task here. It never will be.

And you suck even worse at that...

Considering the fact that I'm continually leveling your arguments, and I suck at it, it'd be pretty bad for you if someone were to come along and actually be good at dashing and destroying your arguments.

 

[Sonofason]

I'm feeling neither dashed nor destroyed, how 'bout the rest of you?

I know. That's why I love debating atheists so much. It's like boiling crabs.

 

[Sonofason]

It doesn't matter whose house it is. The OP was over 1100 posts ago, it's been talked to death, now we're talking about other related subjects. That's how forums operate. Surprised you didn't realize that.

Besides, I think I made my point quite clearly. I hate to beat a dead horse.

 

[Storm]

No it is not, I agree with what you are saying that these areas of existence can be (in Steven J Gould's words) "non-overlapping magisteria." I also think that religion should skedaddle on out of areas that it either has never had any business in of that recent progress in human knowledge has evicted it from.

How does your being a religionist have any effect on that?

Lack of differentiation. The original comment sounded like you think those things are universal.

 

[McBell]

considering the fact that I'm continually leveling your arguments,

ROTFLMAO

A real legend in your own mind.

and I suck at it, it'd be pretty bad for you if someone were to come along and actually be good at dashing and destroying your arguments.

whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[McBell]

I hate to beat a dead horse.

Yet here you are...

 

[Storm]

LOL

This conversation improved a great deal with judicious blocking. Now it's like a drinking game.