Faith in Christ is Completely Logical

[Cephus]

The entire Plan of Redemption can be found, by anyone, interwoven withing the text of the Bible. The proof is there for anyone to see.

No, the claim is there to see. You have yet to demonstrate that it's a factually valid claim. That's what I keep pointing out and you keep dodging. I don't want to hear your claims, I want to see your proof.

Absolutely correct, however, God is not a provable fact and equally it cannot be falsified either.

Unicorns and leprechauns can't be falsified either, that doesn't make them valid beliefs. Rational people do not believe things just because they cannot be proven false, they only believe things that can be demonstrated to be actually true.

Not true, there is a mountain of evidence to prove that smoking can damage your health. It is therefore subjected to the ad argumentum populum. There is not such absolute conclusive evidence that states that God lives or is a figment of our imagination.

I wouldn't argue with you but cigarettes don't make untestable supernatural claims. If someone said that cigarettes caused you to go to a magical paradise after death, there's no evidence whatsoever that it's false. Luckily, rational people don't worry about what can be proven false, only about what can be proven true, something that both cigarette magical land and God lack entirely.

You are talking about fringe denominations who have misinterpreted the scriptures. That is not indicative of christianity as a whole.

Says who? You're just asserting, again without the slightest shred of objective evidence, that they're misinterpreting the scriptures. Maybe you are. You certainly can provide no evidence whatsoever that your reading is better than their reading, or that any reading of the Bible is valid and factually correct. Christianity as a whole could be completely wrong.

What a very spurious assertion. Perhaps you can substantiate it with evidence as in my experience the opposite is very much true.

There's nothing spurious about it and your experience, unless tested rationally, really has no bearing whatsoever. Lots of theists claim to experience lots of things, none of which can be backed up.

It's not that hard to find evidence of if you just open your eyes and look.

Then it should be very easy for you to present it. Go ahead.

Likewise with atheists, Hinduism, Muslim and scientology. It is a problem found throughout humanity and not unique to any particular religion. Most people I know to be openly homophobic are in fact atheists.

Yeah, you let me know when they're doing this:

 

[Ingledsva]

Yes, my beliefs are correct and theirs are not. Absolutely 100% correct. It is called "objective morality."

Objective Morality

1. Objective morality is the idea that a certain system of ethics or set of moral judgments is not just true according to a person's subjective opinion, but factually true. Proponents of this theory would argue that a statement like "Murder is wrong" can be as objectively true as "1 + 1 = 2."

You make this far to easy.

LOL! What a bunch of bull.

Laws and so-called morality did NOT come from the religions of Abraham.

They come about through our ancient ancestors starting to live together in groups, and needing to keep the peace!

Grog steals Borg's mate. Borg beats Grog into a bloody mess in the corner. The rest of the people see such, and eventually decide it is not OK to steal someone else's mate.

Nothing to do with any God.

Later societies just build on these ideas.


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[Serenity7855]

Your interpretation of scripture and your teachings lead you see a Plan.

No, the teachings of the Holy Bible identify the Plan of Salvation from Genesis to Revelations. It cannot be interpreted, it is the word of God.

That understanding that you have is not something that is universally shared, even among people of your own faith. If it is not a universally shared idea, then how accurate is it to say that the evidence of your logic for your own faith is to be found in it?

That understanding, that you say I have, is Christianity. It is what every single Christian strives for, life eternal with their father in heaven. It is what Muslims want, and almost every belief system that culminates in being with a metaphysical being who will make them happy and content. That understanding is about as universal as anything in this world gets.

Jews and Muslims read (or have read) the same old books that you do. They do not see a plan of redemption through Christ, which you claim is outlined in the Bible. That alone blows up your argument thus far, and we haven't even gotten to the good stuff yet...

Jews very much see that plan of redemption right up until the birth of Christ. They still await the coming of the Messiah. The belief of Muslims is very similar to Christianity only their God is Allah and their Jesus is Muhammed. Their redemption is concluded by a judgement day as well. Their redemption comes through the Quran and the prophet Muhammed.

How has that universality blown my argument out of the water. If anything it corroborates it. Let's hope that the "good stuff" you refer to have a greater bit to it as thus far you have enhanced my argument for me.

The plan of redemption that you speak of is an idea that is only held in certain Christian circles. (Granted, it is held in the majority of protestant circles, but that's not all there is to Christianity, is it?) It is an interpretation that was created within the Christian framework and nowhere else.

How absurdly ignorant that statement is. The Plan of Redemption is the quintessence of Christianity, it's entire ethos is based on it. It is entrenched in every book contained in the Holy Bible. It is our reason for being. Our raison d'etre. Something tells me that you are arguing with me about something that you know little about. An argumentum ad ignorantiam

 

[Ingledsva]

No, the teachings of the Holy Bible identify the Plan of Salvation from Genesis to Revelations. It cannot be interpreted, it is the word of God.

....

LOL! Yeah sure , - that is why there are so many different Christian denominations, with their differing ideas!


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[Serenity7855]

LOL! Yeah sure , - that is why there are so many different Christian denominations, with their differing ideas!


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That is the misinterpretation of the individual parts, not the whole. You did say that you studied the Bible, didn't you?

 

[Serenity7855]

It is neither awkward nor disjointed.

It is my opinion that it is not only awkward and disjointed but it is also irrelevant to the topic being debated.

You can brush it aside if you wish, even after admitting that it was a valid argument.

I am not brushing it aside, I just do not see its relevance here. That makes it an invalid argument.

There is supporting evidence for this both within the scriptures themselves and from other outside historical references. It is well supported within Biblical academia.

I am sure that there is supporting evidence which I can easily refute, however, it is irrelevant here.

To blow it off because it's inconvenient to the flow of conversation would be a mistake.

I am not blowing it off. It is just not relevant.

I'm not asking you to be critical of Islam. I am asking you to consider your own requirements for logical conclusions in the face of an opposing religion.

Islam is not an opposing religion. Their religious belief are coequal with Christianity. They even believe in the Holy Bible that they feel is fraught with errors, so put the Quran as a more accurate source to use and should be used above any other book. Their principles and precepts are almost identical to ours. I therefore very much respect their logical conclusions that are so very close to my own.

I was not saying that YOU were an atheist, nor vile. It was an aside, spoken from the 3rd person perspective, referring to myself.

Hostile innuendos always run a risk of being taken seriously.

If you refer to the post that it came from, you were essentially making the argument that the whole of the Bible is this great story outlining God's overall plan for redemption, as you've said many times. Your concept of such a plan, without the writings of Paul and their overall effect on the theology of Christianity, would not exist. That is the relevance of the off the wall statement.

The same argument can be postulated for every single book in the bible. Paul's writings are in fact there, as are all of the rest of the authors writings. Your observation is a vacuous and nonsensical trivia. Without Genesis the Plan of Redemption would be a non-starter, more so then the ommission of Paul writings.

The reading of the Old Testament by those who did not actively try and find secondary or tertiary sources, and then explain them as references to the chosen messiah figure of Jesus, does not lead to the conclusion that any of your claims (and those of the New Testament writers) are true. In turn, what does that mean for your asserted plan of salvation?

There is sufficient evidence that supports the authenticity of the writings in the Old Testament. More importantly, Christians need no supportive evidence. One of the most fundamental questions, asked of the Holy Ghost, during any conversion process is "is the accounts written of in the bible accurate and true." I know of no Christian who received the answer "no". Christians are privileged with the companionship of the influence of the Holy Ghost. That Holy Ghost testifies of Truth. It is not a basic scientific experiment where tangible evidence must support each and every step of the process. That is an archaic method of gaining knowledge. We know that the bible is the word of God because his Holy Spirit has testified it to our souls. That puts us leaps and strides ahead of atheists who have to rely on the grossly inaccurate and unreliable knowledge of mankind.

It means that it, also, is created. It is fabricated. It was developed as a way to reconcile the differences the concepts of the New Testament and those of the Jewish tradition... This is true, even all the way down to the genealogies of Jesus as a descendant of David.

Of course you can corroborate your words here with evidence, right, or is this all anecdotal.

How do you make any of the arguments that you make without the book of Hebrews?
Think about it before you get offended.

I am not offended. I do not see the relevance in a metaphor.

So, again, essentially what you are asking for is an argument against your own personal reasoning that your convictions are true. That's unnecessary. Your personal convictions are yours alone and you are free to follow whichever faith you choose. You may not, however, claim that your faith is aligned with absolute universal truth, spoken to humanity by an omniscient being, who picked some little backwater dust bowl in a very specific social market of the Middle East to deliver his message....

These are my personal convictions, it is true, however, it is a general concept of all Christianity. That makes it a universal truth regardless of my own personal beliefs. Every aspect of the Plan of Redemption has a reason. Even the little backwater dust bowl in a very specific social market of the Middle East had a reason for being selected. That you do not know those reasons is the result of your atheism.

 

[Sapiens]

No, the entire Plan is there without the need of interpretation.

Obviously not there are any number of people who who do not see it and who have asked you to point it out. All you seem to be able to do is keep repeating that you see it.

 

[Ingledsva]

That is the misinterpretation of the individual parts, not the whole. You did say that you studied the Bible, didn't you?

You said this -

"No, the teachings of the Holy Bible identify the Plan of Salvation from Genesis to Revelations. It cannot be interpreted, it is the word of God."

Which is bull, as people, including Biblical scholars, interpret it differently. Good examples being Jesus as human teacher/Messiah, and the trinity Jesus is God idea, - or the Sheol holding place - verses the erroneous Christian Hell, - or directly to Heaven, not directly to Heaven, etc. Tanakh which says ONE good only, and Christianity's trinity. Tanakh says to pray to YHVH ONLY!

The whole Bible is translated and interpreted by each new generation.

I might add that the Jews don't agree with you on that GENESIS to Revelation.

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[Serenity7855]

You said this -

"No, the teachings of the Holy Bible identify the Plan of Salvation from Genesis to Revelations. It cannot be interpreted, it is the word of God."

Yes, from cover to cover.

Which is bull, as people, including Biblical scholars, interpret it differently.

They interpret the individual parts differently. Every converted christians agree that the plan is a constant. Scholars study it from an academic perspective, as you did, and not from a spiritual perspective. I can see that you are an atheists who picks up on words rather than concepts. It is an old debating tactic intended to derail and distract.

Good examples being Jesus as human teacher/Messiah, and the trinity Jesus is God idea, - or the Sheol holding place - verses the erroneous Christian Hell, - or directly to Heaven, not directly to Heaven, etc. Tanakh which says ONE good only, and Christianity's trinity. Tanakh says to pray to YHVH ONLY!

I do not recognise the idea of the Trinity. I have told you this, so it is a waste of time you using example that incorporate it. It is not even mention in scripture as God incarnate is not mentioned. If you studied the Bible you would know that. The Tanakh is the canon of the Hebrew Bible. It is meaningless to me. You are reading with your eyes rather then your heart.

The whole Bible is translated and interpreted by each new generation.

Not to my knowledge it isn't

I might add that the Jews don't agree with you on that GENESIS to Revelation.

I am not that bothered. It is the Torah that is their book. That contains parts of the Plan of Salvation as well.

 

[Ingledsva]

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You said this -"No, the teachings of the Holy Bible identify the Plan of Salvation from Genesis to Revelations. It cannot be interpreted, it is the word of God."

Yes, from cover to cover.

ING - That is false. Things have been added, deleted, mistranslated, understood differently between even the Christian denominations. And that of course doesn't even take into account you have no proof your choice of scriptures are the right ones, or even from God.

Which is bull, as people, including Biblical scholars, interpret it differently.

They interpret the individual parts differently. Every converted christians agree that the plan is a constant. Scholars study it from an academic perspective, as you did, and not from a spiritual perspective. I can see that you are an atheists who picks up on words rather than concepts. It is an old debating tactic intended to derail and distract.

ING - Again I am not an Atheist. And NO, all Christians do NOT have the same salvation plan in mind. The debate over works, for instance, comes to mind.

Good examples being Jesus as human teacher/Messiah, and the trinity Jesus is God idea, - or the Sheol holding place - verses the erroneous Christian Hell, - or directly to Heaven, not directly to Heaven, etc. Tanakh which says ONE good only, and Christianity's trinity. Tanakh says to pray to YHVH ONLY!

I do not recognise the idea of the Trinity. I have told you this, so it is a waste of time you using example that incorporate it. It is not even mention in scripture as God incarnate is not mentioned. If you studied the Bible you would know that. The Tanakh is the canon of the Hebrew Bible. It is meaningless to me. You are reading with your eyes rather then your heart.

ING - LOL! Dude! We are not talking about YOU. We are debating what you said about the BIBLE. Believe it or not - there are Christians and others that don't agree with you. And I have already said the trinity is not in the Bible, nor is the idea that Jesus is God. So leave out the Red-Herring crap.

I always find it hilarious when Christians say Tanakh is meaningless to them. LOL! The God is the Hebrew God. The special people of that God are the Hebrew. The Messiah is for them first. The idea of that Messiah comes from their writings. You have nothing without Tanakh! You wouldn't even know there was supposed to be a Messiah - which could then be claimed to be Jesus! LOL!

The whole Bible is translated and interpreted by each new generation.

Not to my knowledge it isn't

ING - LOL! Yeah right! All Bibles are in their original languages, and everyone learns the languages, colloquialisms, etc. LOL! And nothing has been altered, - like YHVH to Lord, to fit better with Lord Jesus, or Isaiah's son Emmanuel suddenly becoming a prophecy of Jesus (whom obviously wasn't even named Emmanuel,) or a Babylonian King being turned into Lucifer, a name that isn't even in the Bible! And nothing has been excluded after being first included (all those books,) and nothing had been altered, or added, by church fathers and writers. LOLOLOLOLOLO! Biblical Scholars do not agree with you!

I might add that the Jews don't agree with you on that GENESIS to Revelation.

I am not that bothered. It is the Torah that is their book. That contains parts of the Plan of Salvation as well.

ING - LOL! See above! You have no NT without Tanakh!

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LOL! See my answers within your text.


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[Serenity7855]

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LOL! See my answers within your text.


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ING - That is false. Things have been added, deleted, mistranslated, understood differently between even the Christian denominations. And that of course doesn't even take into account you have no proof your choice of scriptures are the right ones, or even from God.

The King James Version has been corrected 100,000 times, however, those correction are in punctuations and spelling mistakes. It's text has not be altered, added to, or taken away, apart from the apocrypha, in 400 odd years. It was translated from the original text and from the Geneva Bible, which was translated from the original text as well. I only read the King James Version as I believe it is the most accurate bible in existence. I do not read bibles like the NIV as the text has been changed to a degree that it has altered the meaning of many verses. Those that subscribe to reading altered text run the risk of failing the test. That doesn't make the Plan of Redemption wrong, it makes those who read the false doctrine wrong.

ING - Again I am not an Atheist. And NO, all Christians do NOT have the same salvation plan in mind. The debate over works, for instance, comes to mind.

You will have to forgive me but your hostility makes you sound like one.

You are talking about the Borne Again Christians. They have an individual part of the Plan of Redemption wrong. So wrong that they are at risk of not making the higher kingdoms of heaven. They believe that it is only necessary to have faith in Jesus in order to secure their spot in Heaven. They make the role of Christ obsolete. They are wrong on that one piece of their jigsaw puzzle. It does not fit into the whole picture of the Plan of Salvation. But they are no different to all of the different denominations out there. They are all wrong. None of them have the full picture. The Lord made it clear that only a hand full of his elect will recognise his voice. To the Born Again Christians he will say "I knew you not" and that will be true as the majority do not live in accordance to the teachings of Christ. They do not believe in works, which is the hub of the gospel. It has all been prophesied. But, once again, you speak of individual parts of the whole.

ING - LOL! Dude! We are not talking about YOU. We are debating what you said about the BIBLE. Believe it or not - there are Christians and others that don't agree with you. And I have already said the trinity is not in the Bible, nor is the idea that Jesus is God. So leave out the Red-Herring crap.

And earlier on in this thread I said that I do not agree with any religion that has been organised by man within walls of bricks and mortar. Christianity is falling from within, as predicted. It will continue to diminish fueled by the false doctrines of mankind. Only those who take on board the teachings of the Saviour will recognise the Bride Groom when he arrives. It is our responsibility to know who and what the master is in order to recognise his voice.

The read herring, that you accuse me of, seems to be just you projecting. I have made it very clear in this thread that the trinity is false doctrine.

I always find it hilarious when Christians say Tanakh is meaningless to them. LOL! The God is the Hebrew God. The special people of that God are the Hebrew. The Messiah is for them first. The idea of that Messiah comes from their writings. You have nothing without Tanakh! You wouldn't even know there was supposed to be a Messiah - which could then be claimed to be Jesus! LOL!

I read of the dealings of God in my scriptures. It testifies to me of his divinity. I need no other religious canon to prepare me to meet God. I do not need to be informed of translation errors from original text as it all goes to make the bible what it is, the literal word of God. I do not need to be aware of historical facts either. The scriptures are a book of commandments intended to guide and direct the reader into paths of righteousness that will eventually lead to life eternal, exaltation.

ING - LOL! Yeah right! All Bibles are in their original languages, and everyone learns the languages, colloquialisms, etc. LOL! And nothing has been altered, - like YHVH to Lord, to fit better with Lord Jesus, or Isaiah's son Emmanuel suddenly becoming a prophecy of Jesus (whom obviously wasn't even named Emmanuel,) or a Babylonian King being turned into Lucifer, a name that isn't even in the Bible! And nothing has been excluded after being first included (all those books,) and nothing had been altered, or added, by church fathers and writers. LOLOLOLOLOLO! Biblical Scholars do not agree with you!

I do not care what the heathen biblical scholars say. They have only the teachings of men to go by. I have the testimony of the Holy Ghost. None of your assertions are relevant to my bible. Many bible have been tampered with in the manner you suggest, however, it is my belief that the KJV has not. I read with the Holy Ghost, there are no errors when you do this, not even the ones that could be made by me.

Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

 

[Ingledsva]

...

Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Let us start with this one - since it is so obviously wrong - and you should know that.

There is no LUCIFER in the original sentence.

This whole book is about a King of Babylon, and it makes that plain by the improper burial and worms. It actually says MAN!

Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Isa 14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

Isa 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou were made to serve,

Isa 14:4 And thou take up this adage against/concerning the King of Babylon, and say thus, O how has failed the Tyrannizer/Oppressor; failed the Golden City.
(Babylon was called the Golden City.)

Isa 14:9 Sheol/the grave trembles in anticipation of your coming, stirring up the ghosts of the dead, all the leaders of the land rise up from their coverings/shrouds, all the Kings together

Isa 14:10 Altogether speaking, they said, even thee be rubbed-out/struck-down, as it was for us also.

Isa 14:11 Thus descends to Sheol thy pomp/pride, and the noise of thy psalteries; and for thee below, a bed of worms and a coverlet of maggots.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from a great height, O Heylel (Shining One,) son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 for you said in your heart, I will ascend the heights to the very highest, to a prince of God raise up my throne, and sit upon the mount of the appointed/assembly on the border in the North (Temple on Mount Moriah)

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most Lofty/Highest.

Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to Sheol (the grave,) to the sides of the pit.

Isa 14:16 And they that come near to glance at thee, regard thee, the man that made the nations tremble in fear.

Isa 14:17 That made the habitable lands as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the dungeons to set free his prisoners?

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own family burial vault (sepulcher.)

Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy sepulcher like a descendent detested, shrouded with death, thrust through with a sword, tossed under the stones in a hole/pit; a carcass trodden under foot.

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[Ingledsva]

* 2

NG - LOL! Yeah right! All Bibles are in their original languages, and everyone learns the languages, colloquialisms, etc. LOL! And nothing has been altered, - like YHVH to Lord, to fit better with Lord Jesus, or Isaiah's son Emmanuel suddenly becoming a prophecy of Jesus (whom obviously wasn't even named Emmanuel,) or a Babylonian King being turned into Lucifer, a name that isn't even in the Bible! And nothing has been excluded after being first included (all those books,) and nothing had been altered, or added, by church fathers and writers. LOLOLOLOLOLO! Biblical Scholars do not agree with you!

I do not care what the heathen biblical scholars say. They have only the teachings of men to go by. I have the testimony of the Holy Ghost. None of your assertions are relevant to my bible. Many bible have been tampered with in the manner you suggest, however, it is my belief that the KJV has not. I read with the Holy Ghost, there are no errors when you do this, not even the ones that could be made by me...

LOL! "heathen biblical scholars!" You obviously haven't actually studied the Bible, - or you would know that Christian scholars point these out as well.

You have the testimony of the Holy Ghost? You should know that your hearing things, does not make them real, or true. We have Biblical scholars for a reason.

All of my information is relevant to the Bible.

The KJV is no different then the others. They all have errors, and added, or changed text.

CLICK the newest to see the latest, LOL!

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[Ingledsva]

* 3

I always find it hilarious when Christians say Tanakh is meaningless to them. LOL! The God is the Hebrew God. The special people of that God are the Hebrew. The Messiah is for them first. The idea of that Messiah comes from their writings. You have nothing without Tanakh! You wouldn't even know there was supposed to be a Messiah - which could then be claimed to be Jesus! LOL!

I read of the dealings of God in my scriptures. It testifies to me of his divinity. I need no other religious canon to prepare me to meet God. I do not need to be informed of translation errors from original text as it all goes to make the bible what it is, the literal word of God. I do not need to be aware of historical facts either. The scriptures are a book of commandments intended to guide and direct the reader into paths of righteousness that will eventually lead to life eternal, exaltation.
...

LOL! That is hilarious! You are in here challenging everybody with your version of scripture! You expect all to believe your version.

Then when we rebut you with facts, - you say you don't need to know the translation errors, or historical FACTS!

LOL! Dude! If you aren't here for honest debate, you should just leave, as eventually people will just put you on ignore.

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[mahasn ebn sawresho]

LOL! What a bunch of bull.

Laws and so-called morality did NOT come from the religions of Abraham.

They come about through our ancient ancestors starting to live together in groups, and needing to keep the peace!

Grog steals Borg's mate. Borg beats Grog into a bloody mess in the corner. The rest of the people see such, and eventually decide it is not OK to steal someone else's mate
.
Why could not the Roman Empire from cultivating morals??
Why can't the Assyrian Empire from cultivating morality?!?
Why Greece is unable to fine tune their morals??
Why did know people in America before the discovery of ethics???
Judaism and Christianity were supported and directed all ethical theories
Science social studies looking at these topics
Human evolution in multiple-stages.
Evolution laws of Mesopotamia-the
The oldest law speaks of social peace was in the code of Hammurabi..
The oldest known man was looking for immortality is Gilgamesh
But all those Empires
In its cruelty, at the height of its power was unable to provide clear and consistent ethical base
Only the Christian ethics
2. the term Abrahamic term is not true-
Ibrahim to declare any religion -
Ibrahim said the fundamental idea-a.
Abrahamout ofurof the Chaldeans
This is promulgated by the written history
Ibrahim emerged from the Ziggurat Chaldean
And with it the idea that the universe in which the creator
The universe hasa creator
This idea carried a tiny people
These Hebrews Jews
And with Christ become to the world and everyone
Writing this just for clarification

Nothing to do with any God.

Later societies just build on these ideas.


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[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Why could not the Roman Empire from cultivating morals??
Why can't the Assyrian Empire from cultivating morality?!?
Why Greece is unable to fine tune their morals??
Why did know people in America before the discovery of ethics???
Judaism and Christianity were supported and directed all ethical theories
Science social studies looking atthese topics
Human evolutioninmultiple-stages.
Evolution laws of Mesopotamia-the
The oldest law speaks of social peace was in the code of Hammurabi..
The oldest known man was looking for immortality is Gilgamesh
But all those Empires
In its cruelty, at the height of its power was unable to provide clear and consistent ethical base
Only the Christian ethics
2. the term Abrahamic term is not true-
Ibrahim to declare any religion
Ibrahim said thefundamental idea-a.
Abraham out of ur of the Chaldeans
This is promulgated by the written history
Ibrahim emerged from the Ziggurat ur Chaldean
And with it the idea that the universe in which the creator
The universe hasa creator
This idea carried a tiny people
These Hebrews Jews
And with Christ become to the world and everyone
Writing this just for clarification

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

nots
1-Islam does not belongto the Christian
Different teachings of Islam.
2-
The concept of heaven in Islam differs from the Christian concept
In Islam it is fun and God made albakrat to enjoy sex
I wish not to confuse concepts between Christianity and Islam
3-
3. Islam does not know the concept of salvation-
In the next verse.-((Earthyrithhathe righteousEbadi))
In her it the Earth to becomea paradise of Islam nationality.
There fore, Islam does not know the concept of salvation
The concept of salvation in Christianity and Judaism
With adifference
Jews today are waiting for the Savior
Christians believe that the Savi

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Serenity7855 Anti Angry-Atheist wrote --
Islam is not an opposing religion. Their religious belief are coequal with Christianity. They even believe in the Holy Bible that they feel is fraught with errors, so put the Quran as a more accurate source to use and should be used above any other book. Their principles and precepts are almost identical to ours. I therefore very much respect their logical conclusions that are so very close to my own.
==============================
Who taught youthis??
Are youstudiedIslam?Sotell usthis??
Islamis opposed toallyour teachingsaboutsalvation-
Oppose Christianity
Oppose Jews
And opposed atheists-.
Islamcolonialideology
Religious-cover-??
Islamhuman disaster

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Reviews on this subject.
1. masterpieces of the West believed in intellectual freedom
This freedom does not know Islam
This observation and personal to the author of the topic-
It tries to equate Islam and Christianity-
2. from the teachings o f Jesus
That added to the ten commandments two words
(Love your neighbor)-all translation sad optedon
For example, the Samaritan is a moral education
3. when looking at religions find their teachings
I putthe ten commandmentsin front of
With the addition ofJesusher-
4. any atheist in the world believes in the teachings of peace
Meet withChristian

 

[Serenity7855]

LOL! That is hilarious! You are in here challenging everybody with your version of scripture! You expect all to believe your version.

I am not challenging everybody, just the likes of you, who thinks that to academically study scripture is sufficient to know it is authentic. To study the entire text and cannot see God's Plan of Redemption stairing you in the face because her life is not in line with Gospel principles. It is not my version of scriptures either. It was authored by God and is here to be used by everybody who has a mind to seek out the Saviour of mankind.

Then when we rebut you with facts, - you say you don't need to know the translation errors, or historical FACTS!

You, or anybody else here, has yet to successfully rebut anything I have said. I have made it clear when I first joined the forum that I believe the Bible to be the literal word of God and any discrepancies in translation from the original language is intentional and a integral part of the good message. I have also made it clear that I do not believe that the bible is an historical record but that it is a book of commandments that are as relevant to today's generations as they were 2000 years ago.

LOL! Dude! If you aren't here for honest debate, you should just leave, as eventually people will just put you on ignore.

I will let those who read my post decide whether I am here for honest debate or no. To use the limited intellect of man to obfuscate the true meaning of the scriptures is heresy and apostate at its extreme. Romans 1:22-23 Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. God is omniscient. If there were errors than he would have turn the errors into truth. He has exactly what he wants in the bible, not what you want.

1 Corinthians 1:20-21

Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Colossians 2:8

See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

Myth 1: The Bible has been translated so many times we can’t possibly get back to the original.

This myth involves a naïve understanding of what Bible translators actually did. It’s as if once they translated the text, they destroyed their exemplar! Sometimes folks think that translators who were following a tradition (such as the KJV and its descendants, the RV, ASV, RSV, NASB, NKJB, NRSV, and ESV) really did not translate at all but just tweaked the English. Or that somehow the manuscripts that the translators used are now lost entirely.

The reality is that we have almost no record of Christians destroying biblical manuscripts throughout the entire history of the Church. And those who translated in a tradition bothexamined the English and the original tongues. Decent scholars improved on the text as they compared notes and manuscripts. Finally, we still have almost all of the manuscripts that earlier English translators used. And we have many, many more as well. The KJV New Testament, for example, was essentially based on seven Greek manuscripts, dating no earlier than the eleventh century. Today we have about 5800 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, including those that the KJV translators used. And they date as early as the second century. So, as time goes on, we are actually getting closer to the originals, not farther away.

Five More Myths about Bible Translations and the Transmission of the Text | Daniel B. Wallace