Faith is Dangerous

[Saint Frankenstein]

My husband has faith, so he does not care if he dies because he believes he will no longer be in pain because he will go to heaven.

My husband is slowly starving himself to death because he does not want to live. Who has been watching out for him is me, since he has nobody else, but I cannot force him to eat. He is so dangerously underweight that if he does not start eating soon I am going to have to put him in a psych hospital.

How do you make a person want to live when they want to die? I try to get him help but he does not want help. I am not equipped to deal with this but he does not care. He does not care one iota about me and how I feel or what this is doing to me, all he cares about is himself. He knows I won't abandon him so he takes advantage of me. I am at a point where I think he would be better off dead.

He keeps saying he won't eat because he is in pain physically but he is not rational. He is pushing 80 but this is not cognitive decline, because his memory is fine. It is an emotional problem, although it is also cognitive distortion, and I am not equipped to deal with it.

He is afraid to eat because then he will have to go to the bathroom. He has prostate and urinary problems but the urologist has already run the gamut of tests and there is nothing seriously wrong. He has another appointment next week so we will know more.

Faith is dangerous because it allows people to 'believe' that there is a God who is going to look out for them, a heaven they are going to. I believe there is a heaven but we are not supposed to go there until our appointed time. I do not believe that God is going to look after us, only humans look out for humans. Do you see God anywhere? I believe God exists but God is not doing jack squat.

You can call 911 at any time and have him taken to the hospital. Just say he's suicidal and they'll be quick to admit him.

 

[Ponder This]

Faith that God or the universe has some benevolent plan for you.

Thousands are killed daily, go hungry are homeless. There are no guarantees in the universe. No reason to believe the the universe is going to take your best interest into consideration. No reason to believe your future is bright.

My son believes the universe/God has a special plan for him. That he just needs to wait for the universe/God to reveal it.

Who has been watching out for him are his mom and dad. Parents who sacrifice so he has a place to live and food to eat. Not everyone has parents who are able or wiling.

Is it not folly to assume that someone or something exists that will watch out for your best interests? Or that tomorrow you will have a place to sleep. Food to eat. A family to rely on?

I think about the thousands on families in Ukraine who have lost their homes, parents who have lost their children, children who have lost their parents. Who are now homeless.

Faith is a luxury no one can afford.

Perhaps, faith that God will fulfill selfish desires is misplaced faith.
This is different from having faith that God will be as God is.

However, believing in a bright future can also be the first step towards fulfilling that bright future, if you hold to that ideal. The key here is that faith in your future must translate into courage to pursue that future. If you lack the courage to pursue that future, then can you really be said to have faith in it? You believe, but then you run away from it? It means that faith is a pretense.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm sorry for your troubles.
I also have difficulty with chronic pain so I understand a little.
Even without a belief in an afterlife, I see death as a final release from pain.
However, I have a lot of people who depend on me. A lot of people who want me to stick around.
People I don't want to disappoint, so I keep at it.
Also, healthcare is so damn expensive, but there are these damn people, that would rather I be here than not.

I have never had any physical pain so it is difficult for me to understand.
However, I have had emotional pain, and my husband does not understand that, or seem to care.
Needless to say I am not going to abandon him so I try to endure...
What bothers me most is what some religious people dish out, telling me why we face tests and trials, because God wants x, and that I should be so grateful for the tests.
They can take it where the sun don't shine. Most nonbelievers I know have more compassion in their little finger.

We have good healthcare and pay very little for it so I am grateful for that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Is it not folly to assume that someone or something exists that will watch out for your best interests? Or that tomorrow you will have a place to sleep. Food to eat. A family to rely on?

I see it is a folly to think man can sort out the atrocities you have listed, when those atrocities result from not following God given Councels.

In God we trust, that trust requires us to live as per the councels of God.

If we had done that we would have heeded this advice.

".... The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny. …"

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 249-250

That advice was given in the mid to late 1800's and is too slow to unfold, though after two world wars humans have tried twice, but did not go far enough.

Regards Tony

 

[Nakosis]

Interesting title. I have not seen any study that proves faith is dangerous in your OP. You stated some issues in the world, but none of them give credence to your title or your end conclusion.

It could be that I have not understood your thesis.

Can you give your reasons for your position?

Sure, faith is a gamble on the unknown with unknown odds.
So things/the universe is as likely to act against you as for you.
Gambling with unknown odds is an inherent risk. IOW, the outcome, regardless of any action you take is unknown.
The greater the risk you allow, the greater the chances are that things/the universe will work against you.
The more faith you allow, the more risk you accept in the outcome, the greater the danger that exists in you in achieving whatever goal you seek.
Therefore in order to limit the risk/danger to you, it is best to avoid reliance on faith in your goals as much as possible.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How do you make a person want to live when they want to die? I try to get him help but he does not want help.

Love is the only key.

Regards Tony

 

[Nakosis]

I see it is a folly to think man can sort out the atrocities you have listed, when those atrocities result from not following God given Councels.

I God we trust, that trust requires us to live as per the councels of God.

If we had done that we would have heeded this advice.

".... The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny. …"

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 249-250

That advice was given in the mid to late 1800's and is too slow to unfold, though after two world wars humans have tried twice, but did not go far enough.

Regards Tony

Folks have been trying to heed God's advice for thousands of years.
You keep hoping this time will be different.

 

[Sheldon]

Faith that God or the universe has some benevolent plan for you.

Thousands are killed daily, go hungry are homeless. There are no guarantees in the universe. No reason to believe the the universe is going to take your best interest into consideration. No reason to believe your future is bright.

My son believes the universe/God has a special plan for him. That he just needs to wait for the universe/God to reveal it.

Who has been watching out for him are his mom and dad. Parents who sacrifice so he has a place to live and food to eat. Not everyone has parents who are able or wiling.

Is it not folly to assume that someone or something exists that will watch out for your best interests? Or that tomorrow you will have a place to sleep. Food to eat. A family to rely on?

I think about the thousands on families in Ukraine who have lost their homes, parents who have lost their children, children who have lost their parents. Who are now homeless.

Faith is a luxury no one can afford.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Faith that God or the universe has some benevolent plan for you.

Thousands are killed daily, go hungry are homeless. There are no guarantees in the universe. No reason to believe the the universe is going to take your best interest into consideration. No reason to believe your future is bright.

My son believes the universe/God has a special plan for him. That he just needs to wait for the universe/God to reveal it.

Who has been watching out for him are his mom and dad. Parents who sacrifice so he has a place to live and food to eat. Not everyone has parents who are able or wiling.

Is it not folly to assume that someone or something exists that will watch out for your best interests? Or that tomorrow you will have a place to sleep. Food to eat. A family to rely on?

I think about the thousands on families in Ukraine who have lost their homes, parents who have lost their children, children who have lost their parents. Who are now homeless.

Faith is a luxury no one can afford.

God isn't the universe, at least in my belief, so that might be your first stumbling block here. God transcends the universe, space and time. The universe doesn't give a **** about us. God does, though.

 

[Trailblazer]

You can call 911 at any time and have him taken to the hospital. Just say he's suicidal and they'll be quick to admit him.

Ironically, back in June 2014 my husband called 911 when he thought I was suicidal... I had a bottle of Xanax in my hand and was threatening to take it. The Sheriffs came and realized I was not really going to kill myself...
The police report reads "she said she was not going to kill herself because she believes in God."

Of course, that was not the only reason. I have to stick around because even back then husband never took care of himself or anything else, and I have the cats I love more than life itself.

I don't think my husband is suicidal, just stubborn, and he only thinks of himself and his own pain.
He does not think of what I have to endure worrying about him constantly.
I am going to let the doctors and counselors deal with this because it is over my head. Thank God we have good health insurance.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Folks have been trying to heed God's advice for thousands of years.
You keep hoping this time will be different.

I have faith we will be able to do it this time, unfortunately it will require further mass destruction.

So that is my question, why do we not heed such good advice?

The Holy books warn we will not heed the advice, because we have become remote from the only source that can save us from our own selves.

That is why we are asked to find God within, God is all the virtues.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

The universe doesn't give a **** about us. God does, though.

Thanks, I needed to hear that. Sometimes it is my only hope.

 

[Nakosis]

God isn't the universe, at least in my belief, so that might be your first stumbling block here. God transcends the universe, space and time. The universe doesn't give a **** about us. God does, though.

I'm trying to be universal. New agey people see some equivalency between God and the universe. So God/the universe whatever you think is out there that has some plan for your life.
I don't see where God cares. Maybe, my life is a bit more fortunate than others.
But them other folks exist. Maybe I could pretend they don't but I wouldn't think a benevolent God would.

 

[Sheldon]

weisel lost his faith do to the holocaust ....most folks with strong faith increase their faith in times of trouble

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy, and I love the idea you can just pluck out of thin air what "most people" think.

"No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect their universal generalization from a falsifying counterexample by excluding the counterexample improperly. Rather than abandoning the falsified universal generalization or providing evidence that would disqualify the falsifying counterexample, a slightly modified generalization is constructed ad-hoc to definitionally exclude the undesirable specific case and counterexamples like it by appeal to rhetoric. This rhetoric takes the form of emotionally charged but nonsubstantive purity platitudes such as "true", "pure", "genuine", "authentic", "real", etc."

Note your unevidenced counter example used the rhetorical platitude "strong faith". To falsely imply that only those of weak faith lose it in adversity.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thanks, I needed to hear that. Sometimes it is my only hope.

God bless you. I still think you should just call 911 and tell them he's suicidal and refuses to eat. He needs to be in a hospital, from what it sounds like.

 

[Sheldon]

On the contrary, I would suggest that faith is a necessity no one can afford to be without; for the alternative to faith, given all the problems that currently beset the world, is surely despair.

The opposite of despair is hope, not faith.

That doesn't have to mean faith in God, btw. But one must have faith in something, or else how does one stay sane?

The OP is clearly talking about religious faith.

 

[Trailblazer]

Love is the only key.

How is love going to prevent my husband from dying of starvation, or does that not matter?

 

[Trailblazer]

The opposite of despair is hope, not faith.

I fully agree. I was going to say that but you beat me to the punch.

 

[Sheldon]

the prescriptions of antidepressants skyrocket after god was removed from the classrooms and from society

I find this hyperbole extremely dubious.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm trying to be universal. New agey people see some equivalency between God and the universe. So God/the universe whatever you think is out there that has some plan for your life.
I don't see where God cares. Maybe, my life is a bit more fortunate than others.
But them other folks exist. Maybe I could pretend they don't but I wouldn't think a benevolent God would.

I understand that some equate the two, especially pantheists. But they're usually a tiptoe from being atheists, honestly.

I have my personal experiences that show that God cares. Those suffering people probably have their experiences that God cares for them, too. You ever been in a food line with a bunch of homeless people, drug addicts and alcoholics? I have and believe me, those people believe very strongly in God (it's usually religious groups running the food lines in the first place, but they don't discriminate on the basis of belief here). Certainly I've hated God at times in my life. I've even begged Him to let me die or just flat-out kill me, as recently as yesterday. But I'm still here. God knows best. He always reaches out and touches my heart when I'm about to hit rock bottom and fall into the abyss. Obviously I can't prove that "empirically" to anyone but I know what I've experienced and only God Himself can really convert people.