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Faith Is Not Belief Without Evidence

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I can't speak for thief, but I will give an answer as well. The way I see it as that since I believe God to be spirit, then my evidence would be spiritual. As I inferred before, it isn't scientific evidence, and it isn't physical evidence. Since dragons would be a physical thing, then you would have to have physical evidence.

What do you mean by "spiritual"? How do you distinguish it from the physical?

But you don't believe that God is entirely spiritual, do you? I mean, a god that has no physical effects at all would be entirely impotent... such a god would not be a creator-god.

IMO, if a thing has real, physical effects, then for all practical purposes, it's physical. And if it doesn't have real, physical effects, I don't see how it would meet any mainstream definition of "god".
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Unfortunately none. kind of the problem with humans. You tell a good story people believe it without evidence. Something with the nature of being human. We tend to trust when we have no good reason to.

The actual problem is rejecting a good story that it might require a higher level of conduct....a step up.
So then the cry for evidence, followed by nay saying.


They try to teach things like critical thinking. It doesn't take very well. It's difficult to change a nature that has been developed over thousands of years.

This is true and your post shows, why.

However if people do, for whatever reason, start resting some of these stories and find insufficient reason to accept the truth of them enough times they start to become skeptical of all of them. Such a skeptic needs more then a good story.

Hence the parable of the Sower. See Matthew13:3
Mark4:1, Luke6:47
 

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
The evidence of my faith is the world and universe that we live in and the testimony of those that Jesus changed their lives.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
christineES said:
No, thank you. It is only evidence TO ME and it wouldn't be evidence to you- another reason to call it faith. I mentioned my evidence in another thread about two weeks ago and it was totally ignored.

That sounds more like personal opinion than evidence, christine.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I can't speak for thief, but I will give an answer as well. The way I see it as that since I believe God to be spirit, then my evidence would be spiritual. As I inferred before, it isn't scientific evidence, and it isn't physical evidence. Since dragons would be a physical thing, then you would have to have physical evidence.
Unless you claim that dragons are spiritual, of course. You could claim anything was spiritual, therefore you needn't require physical or verifiable evidence of anything.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Is this a reasonable supposition in the case of a god, though?

Okay - a person's individual religious experience might not be verifiable by anyone else, but why would the existence of a god not be verifiable by other means? If we're talking about the intelligent creator of the universe who is causing everything to unfold according to his divine plan, then his fingerprints should be all over the place.

I can think of a few reasons. Maybe if there is a God he doesn't wants to limit his intrusiveness. Maybe God wants life for the most part to develop on its own. Maybe God wants life to reach the limit of it's capability on it's own as much as possible and steps in only to prevent it from completely destroying itself.

Really? I thought you were saying otherwise.

What I'm saying is a person has to deal with the reality of the reality they experience. I don't know the reality of your experiences, so I don't know how reliable your claims are. I may consider them. However I still am left trusting the reality of what I've experienced for myself. In the same sense I'd expect you and any one else to trust what they've experienced for themselves then my claims about reality.


Depends on the god in question.

Yes, what do we know about God. Assuming one exists, I think not much really. We again rely on our own experiences or people do trust Prophets. I wouldn't without having a good reason to. But people do. Prophets say God is like "whatever" such as in the Christian Bible. Ok, Christian believe these Prophets had authority. I don't think it's a good idea to rely on that authority or any authority without question.

The first step in answering that question probably depends on how the person hypothesizing a god answers questions "what do you mean by 'god'?" and "how do you know it's a god?"

And by that second one, I mean something more than "I had a religious experience." Presumably, if we're allowing the possibility that gods exist, then we have to allow for other possibilities as well... for instance, that there might exist non-god things that could appear to a person, elicit a religious/mystical experience and say "Hi! I'm God!" but be lying. The person hypothesizing that their god exists is also implicitly claiming that their god can be (and has been) distinguished from such a non-god thing.

Yes those things are true. As with any experience our lack of knowledge/understanding allows us to be screwed with.

I could tell you this was intentional but there is no reason for you to accept that. So first assuming there is a God. This is the reality as you stated it, yes? And I agree. It must be intended to be that way.

You really shouldn't trust anyone IMO when it comes to stating facts about God. Except maybe someone you've found good reason to put your faith in. That's a personal choice and depends on your personal experience.

A problem I think is man is way to trusting. It's in our nature to want to trust. I'm not saying you shouldn't trust at all though. Just one should really consider whether that trust is justified.

But back to the topic. Faith is veneration. Because we are ignorant, about God in this case, putting your faith in a teacher is a crap shoot. People have to get really good at identifying with that faith has been misplaced.

Unfortunately people get stubborn about it. They don't like to admit even to themselves they've been fooled. Maybe it is easier to give up on having faith altogether then risk being betrayed again?

I've been betrayed, misled etc... to the point where I expect it. However I've also found a few genuine teachers. Each one can teach you a little bit more. Then it's time to fine the next one, and you maybe screwed again. But, you learn and learn how to better guard yourself. So there's a benefit to even the false teachers.

Bottom line in this spiritual stuff is you have to trust yourself. If it doesn't smell right then there is probably a reason for it. Anything that seems wrong to you then you are probably right to question it.

When you lack knowledge you find a teacher and hope for the best. God, if there is one, wants it this way for some reason.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Hence the parable of the Sower. See Matthew13:3
Mark4:1, Luke6:47

Yes so here we are on the forums spreading seed because one never knows where fertile ground might be found.

A lot of people here spreading their seeds. All hoping the knowledge they have finds a place to take root.
 

McBell

Unbound
Yes so here we are on the forums spreading seed because one never knows where fertile ground might be found.

A lot of people here spreading their seeds. All hoping the knowledge they have finds a place to take root.
Sounds like a rather poetic way of saying that they are looking for choir members...
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Sounds like a rather poetic way of saying that they are looking for choir members...

It's a poetic way of saying some are here trying to teach something.
If you learn something and find it to be true you might try teaching it to others.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Unless you claim that dragons are spiritual, of course. You could claim anything was spiritual, therefore you needn't require physical or verifiable evidence of anything.

If you want to believe that is what I am talking about, then go ahead and believe it. I think it silly to compare God to dragons or unicorns, but that is just my opinion.
 

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
Yes so here we are on the forums spreading seed because one never knows where fertile ground might be found.

A lot of people here spreading their seeds. All hoping the knowledge they have finds a place to take root.

Good thing farmers show better judgment than this.
 

McBell

Unbound
How would you go about judging which people are not capable of learning?
How about someone who posts the same falsehoods even though they have been shown repeatedly why they are falsehoods?

For more examples than be be readily counted, please take a looksie in the Creation vs Evolution subforum.
 
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