Faith

[Moonjuice]

If you were married or in serious relationship, wouldn't you have to have faith that your partner would not cheat, ir that she would do her fair share in the relationship? How could you ever know absolutely? If you had a cat or dog going for surgery, wouldn't you have to have faith in the vet performing the surgery? If you quit a job and got a new job wouldn't you need faith in yourself, that the new job would work out? How could you know absolutely?

We are still not using the word "Faith" the same way. I already spelled out that I am using the "firm belief in something which there is no conclusive evidence" definition of faith. You are using it to mean "trust". Evidently, if you use the word faith in a relationship, it has to be used only when absolute certainty exists? Why?

Of course you can trust a veterinarian to use her skills to perform surgery on your cat, does that also require absolute certainty that you know the vet will save your cats life? No, you only need conclusive evidence to convince you that the vet can be trusted. You have evidence that suggests a vet is the most capable person to handle the job, which is why you took your cat to the vet and not to a plumber. I think "trust" is based on evidence. It can be conclusive (lead you to a conclusion) even if its not based on good evidence, it is still based on evidence and doesn't require "faith".

Trust does have levels of evidence required, based on the claim being made. For example, if you said you saw a white truck drive past your house, without knowing you at all, I would "trust" you are telling the truth. Why? Because this is an ordinary claim of an action that happens everyday. I have evidence that trucks drive by houses all the time. Based on that evidence, I would trust you. However, if you told me an invisible truck drove by your house, I would not be able to trust you. It would require that you provide sufficient evidence (because invisible trucks are not known to exist, you would have to prove they exist before we could consider the claim that one drove by your house). This is the opposite of an ordinary claim, this is an extraordinary claim. Which as you know, would require extraordinary evidence to be believed by a reasonably thinking person, certainly not faith.

I do not have faith that my wife of 27 years is not going to cheat. I trust that she wont based on mountains of evidence, which grows everyday. At a minimum, she 1. made a commitment to me to be faithful, right in the beginning. 2. She has convinced me she loves me through her daily actions. 3. Everyday she reminds me how faithful and committed to our marriage she is. 4. I have been in a monogamous relationship with her for 30 years. She has never done single thing that would ever lead to me to believe that she would ever be unfaithful. I don't need to know with "absolute" certainty, in order to be convinced by the evidence that my wife is and will continue to be faithful. Until evidence is presented that would lead me to believe otherwise, I "trust" the evidence I have now. If you want to call that faith, you can, but that is not the way I am using the word faith. Nor is that the way the OP used it.

 

[Trailblazer]

In certain cases I believe one can pretend such as in a attempt to be apart of a group or fit in. That can be one motivation for pretending faith. However this is not true faith.

Thanks, now I understand why one might pretend.

 

[Trailblazer]

Wouldn't that be "knowledge?"
Knowledge has a higher degree of confidence than faith.

That depends upon how you define knowledge. I have facts and information about Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith and I also have awareness gained by experience so in that sense I have knowledge. However, nobody can honestly say they "know" God exists as a fact, because that can never be proven, except to oneself.

knowledge;
1. facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
2. awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=knowledge+means

 

[Trailblazer]

But aren't there degrees of trust, based on evidence? Wouldn't a DVM have more evidence of competence than your next door neighbor?

Good point. But the question remains: what are the reasons for trust, the evidentiary foundations?

But aren't some types of "evidence" more reliable than others?

Of course there are degrees of trust, and I would say the more faith and evidence we have the more we can trust.

Yes, I think that evidence is a reason to trust, and some types of evidence are more reliable than others. However, they type of evidence we look for depends upon what we are trying to prove or have confidence in.

 

[Clara Tea]

Hello, I would like to gather some thoughts on faith. What do you think that faith is? How have you seen it in your own life? How have you seen faith in others lives?

Faith, trust, and belief are almost the same. Often people have to earn faith or trust.

Almost everyone (including atheists) have faith. They have faith that their spouses won't cheat on them. They have faith that a car won't run a red light and kill them.

Those without faith would fear everyone and lock themselves in their bedrooms and never come out.

The bible says that we shouldn't make war, and should help the homeless, sick, and hungry. It is easy to have faith that this lifestyle is the best. Not everyone has faith that there is a God, but everyone can have faith that kindness and peace is preferable.

Atheists don't believe in God (by definition). If they believed in God, they'd also have to believe in leprechauns, tooth fairies, and all other things (there are an infinite number of things to believe). They demand proof before they believe.

This doesn't diminish faith in the precepts of the religion. How can one reject niceness and kindness?

Is there any significant difference between having Trust and...

Website: Faith is trust in a religious sense.

What is the difference between faith and trust? | GotQuestions.org

Faith is something to be hoped for.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Of course there are degrees of trust, and I would say the more faith and evidence we have the more we can trust.
Yes, I think that evidence is a reason to trust, and some types of evidence are more reliable than others. However, they type of evidence we look for depends upon what we are trying to prove or have confidence in.

I find the Bible's definition of Faith has to do with having ' trust and confidence ' in the teachings of Jesus.
In other words, Not 'credulity' (blind faith) but by researching the logical reasoning that Jesus used in reference to proving how the old Hebrew Scriptures applies and how he explained or expounded them for us.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Faith, trust, and belief are almost the same. Often people have to earn faith or trust...........................Faith is something to be hoped for.

In the Bible I find the definition of Faith (Hebrews 11) is connected to trust and confidence in order to believe.
To me, Jesus did earn our faith, trust and confidence by what he taught.
So, biblical faith (trust/confidence) is as if we have already have the promise (Hebrews 11:13,39) though Not yet seen.
We have Not yet seen the promise of Revelation 22:2 that there will be 'healing for earth's nations' but we can have confidence (faith/trust) that as it is written so it shall be.

 

[Trailblazer]

We are still not using the word "Faith" the same way. I already spelled out that I am using the "firm belief in something which there is no conclusive evidence" definition of faith. You are using it to mean "trust". Evidently, if you use the word faith in a relationship, it has to be used only when absolute certainty exists? Why?

Of course you can trust a veterinarian to use her skills to perform surgery on your cat, does that also require absolute certainty that you know the vet will save your cats life? No, you only need conclusive evidence to convince you that the vet can be trusted. You have evidence that suggests a vet is the most capable person to handle the job, which is why you took your cat to the vet and not to a plumber. I think "trust" is based on evidence. It can be conclusive (lead you to a conclusion) even if its not based on good evidence, it is still based on evidence and doesn't require "faith".

Trust does have levels of evidence required, based on the claim being made. For example, if you said you saw a white truck drive past your house, without knowing you at all, I would "trust" you are telling the truth. Why? Because this is an ordinary claim of an action that happens everyday. I have evidence that trucks drive by houses all the time. Based on that evidence, I would trust you. However, if you told me an invisible truck drove by your house, I would not be able to trust you. It would require that you provide sufficient evidence (because invisible trucks are not known to exist, you would have to prove they exist before we could consider the claim that one drove by your house). This is the opposite of an ordinary claim, this is an extraordinary claim. Which as you know, would require extraordinary evidence to be believed by a reasonably thinking person, certainly not faith.

I do not have faith that my wife of 27 years is not going to cheat. I trust that she wont based on mountains of evidence, which grows everyday. At a minimum, she 1. made a commitment to me to be faithful, right in the beginning. 2. She has convinced me she loves me through her daily actions. 3. Everyday she reminds me how faithful and committed to our marriage she is. 4. I have been in a monogamous relationship with her for 30 years. She has never done single thing that would ever lead to me to believe that she would ever be unfaithful. I don't need to know with "absolute" certainty, in order to be convinced by the evidence that my wife is and will continue to be faithful. Until evidence is presented that would lead me to believe otherwise, I "trust" the evidence I have now. If you want to call that faith, you can, but that is not the way I am using the word faith. Nor is that the way the OP used it.

We are still not using the word "Faith" the same way. I already spelled out that I am using the "firm belief in something which there is no conclusive evidence" definition of faith. You are using it to mean "trust". Evidently, if you use the word faith in a relationship, it has to be used only when absolute certainty exists? Why?

No, faith does not have to be used only when absolute certainty exists when applied to a relationship. I can trust my husband of 36 years to be faithful for the same reasons you can trust your wife. I have enough evidence and experience.

You said you are defining faith as the "firm belief in something which there is no conclusive evidence." If you apply that to a religion and/or a belief in God, what would constitute conclusive evidence? Would you have to have absolute certainty? For example, would you need to know with "absolute" certainty in order to be convinced by the evidence that shows that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, because that is what belief in my religion is based upon. He was either who He claimed to be or not, there is no gray area.

I "trust" the evidence I have that demonstrates to me that Baha'u'llah is a Messenger of God. If you want to call that faith you can, but for me it is not "firm belief in something which there is no conclusive evidence." For me, it is "firm belief in something for which there is conclusive evidence" and that is why I have absolute certainty.

 

[Moonjuice]

No, faith does not have to be used only when absolute certainty exists when applied to a relationship. I can trust my husband of 36 years to be faithful for the same reasons you can trust your wife. I have enough evidence and experience..

This is why we have to agree on the meaning of words. Earlier, you said this:

"If you were married or in serious relationship, wouldn't you have to have faith that your partner would not cheat, or that she would do her fair share in the relationship? How could you ever know absolutely?"

Now, you are saying "No, faith does not have to be used only when absolute certainty exists when applied to a relationship"

I'm losing interest here. Let's just agree that we "trust" based on evidence.

 

[Psalm23]

Thanks, now I understand why one might pretend.

There could be possible other reasons but that’s the main one I can think of.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why did God allow such a state to happen?

Because we have free-will choice is why God allows 'such a state to happen'.
God forces No one to obey Him.
Also, it was sinner Satan who challenged God's Sovereignty at Job 2:4-5.
Sinner Satan challenges Not only Job but includes the rest of us.
'Touch our 'flesh'...( loose physical health) and we would Not serve God.
Under adverse conditions both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar and so can we.
The passing of time since Eden has allowed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
Once we have reached the point of Matthew 24:14 that the 'good news of God's Kingdom' (Daniel 2:44) is accomplished or spread on an international scale as it is being done today, then, God's allowing of such a state will come to a happy climax in that there will be ' healing for earth's nations' as mentioned at Revelation 22:2.
Healing to the point that No one will say, " I am sick..." according to Isaiah 33:24.
Healthy conditions will be as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

 

[Moonjuice]

A bird wouldn't leave the nest, without faith that it could fly.

That is called instinct, not faith. Obviously, babies don't start to walk because they have faith they can do it.

 

[Alex22]

Faith simply means “trust”

Someone can trust in a number of nonsensical things, does not mean it's true

 

[Aupmanyav]

Because we have free-will choice is why God allows 'such a state to happen'.

Of course, the basic question is what made God create the universe? Why he gave free will to people is another surprise? To create mayhem, sorrow and pain?

 

[MonkeyFire]

Faith is acceptance of God, and life.

 

[RestlessSoul]

That is called instinct, not faith. Obviously, babies don't start to walk because they have faith they can do it.

Yes, faith is often instinctive, particularly in the young.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Of course, the basic question is what made God create the universe? Why he gave free will to people is another surprise? To create mayhem, sorrow and pain?

Without free will - no love.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I don't think faith is required for "everything". In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything here in the natural world that requires faith, outside of religion.

Every (sane) person has faith that objects really exist outside of our mind.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Hope, faith, knowledge -- degrees of belief/confidence. Houses built in the sky, on sand or on rock.

Hope, faith and knowledge are not separated. For example: how can you have faith if you don't have hope?
Another example: I know Earth's diameter is 12.742 km because I believe this info I have read is true.

 

[Brian2]

Doesn't an offer presuppose an offerer? Presupposing an offerer begs the question. It's circular reasoning.
Begging the question - Wikipedia

I was not really trying to prove anything, just giving an opinion, an opinion from as someone who has accepted the offer and believes in the offerer.