Faith

[Lain]

Can we tell others their personal faith is wrong, because we our selves can not find "truth" in their faith?

In my opinion: yes.

 

[We Never Know]

The word 'faith', and even belief, are both words that are more verb-like than that, (in the sense of being an orienting action) and thus are more tool-like, it my opinion. In your idea of what these words are, and the way you use them, you don't believe that they direct you toward a claim? A claim is something you can state. The second step is to reach for it, with either faith or rational examination. I can't really imagine a different way to understand it

A belief is not a claim. Faith is not a claim They are based on personal thought and personal experience. No claim needed.

 

[We Never Know]

It depends.

Depends on??

 

[We Never Know]

In my opinion: yes.

Based on what? If Joe has faith and believes in a god, if yilou tell him he is wrong, how are you going to support that?

 

[Spirit of Light]

In my opinion: yes.

How can we know their faith is wrong? They might even be a better human being than our self.

 

[Lain]

Are you saying that we can examine and critique yours?
When beliefs become aggressive and confrontational then they leave themselves open to attacks, surely?


Not being bothered with the faith of others is fine...
But bothering benign belief is not good, imo.
On the other hand, if faith is aggressive, then it deserves to receive aggression.

Yes. All claims are open to examination and critique to me simply by virtue of existing. If someone benignly thinks that the Moon is made of cheese then that opens them to treatises and refutations being written against them and their claim. Knowing truth is it's own good end to me, doesn't need the justification of aggression for anyone to go at getting it.

 

[We Never Know]

They may lack the personal experience of faith.
Even you may be a non religious person, it seems like you have experienced something that make it possible to understand faith in religion and in God.

My mother was religious. I saw her faith, it was real.

 

[Truthseeker]

Being faith is on a personal level/personal experience,, How can a person without faith tell others they are wrong, argue, or debate about something they don't have or experience?

Faith is not something that is just on a personal level/personal experience. It is that, but there needs to be rational thinking to go with it, and also outer evidence. That is, evidence beyond the inner evidence.

 

[Lain]

Depends on??

If they make a claim about their deity which is contradictory with other claims about their deity and they say both of these things are true then I would say their god does not exist. In other words, the claims based on their faith are BS.

 

[Spirit of Light]

My mother was religious. I saw her faith, it was real.

Thats the answer you need to hold your personal understanding of what faith is nobody can challenge you on that.

 

[Lain]

Based on what? If Joe has faith and believes in a god, if yilou tell him he is wrong, how are you going to support that?

I would begin examining what he claimed about the deity to see if it was even possible for it to exist and so on.

 

[We Never Know]

I would begin examining what he claimed about the deity to see if it was even possible for it to exist and so on.

What would be your first step in showing someone their belief is wrong? Their personal experience is wrong?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I would begin examining what he claimed about the deity to see if it was even possible for it to exist and so on.

What make you sure the deity your your self believe in exist? If it is personal experience or faith, that is what others has in the deity they have faith in too?

 

[We Never Know]

If they make a claim about their deity which is contradictory with other claims about their deity and they say both of these things are true then I would say their god does not exist. In other words, the claims based on their faith are BS.

All personal experiences differ, in turn some beliefs will differ a little. How does different make them wrong?

 

[Truthseeker]

Can we tell others their personal faith is wrong, because we our selves can not find "truth" in their faith?

It would be wise not to. We should think it over also for a while and rationally ponder before we conclude it is wrong.

 

[Lain]

How can we know their faith is wrong? They might even be a better human being than our self.

Looking through the claims made through it to see if they're true like with anything else.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Looking through the claims made through it to see if they're true like with anything else.

When looking at their "claim" or faith, do you use their religious teachings to find those answers? Or from the religious teaching you your self believe in?

 

[Truthseeker]

I do that toward my own belief and faith too. And come to the conclusion that I can't challenge others faith if my own can be plucked apart

I like that attitude. I examined my own faith over and over again. I don't like to challenge other people's faith. I have learned not to do that partly from experience.

 

[Truthseeker]

In my opinion: yes.

Not wise to do so directly, even if after careful examination we don't think what they believe is wrong. Confronting someone actually entrenches them further in their belief usually.

 

[Truthseeker]

How can we know their faith is wrong? They might even be a better human being than our self.

That's not especially relevant to this discussion, in my opinion. A person can be a better human being and yet have erroneous beliefs.