False Prophets

[YmirGF]

That's nonsense and you know it. Please show us where anyone has threatened anyone with such a thing on here or anywhere else for that matter.

I don't want to turn this into yet another anti-Islam thread, but there is only one religion that does not take kindly to anything approaching criticism - especially against its prophet.

 

[sayak83]

Do you mean there are no prophets because there are no prophecies?

Sure there are. They usually come from Cambridge, Oxford, MIT, NASA, CERN etc. Look at just how many prophecies (eclipses, Higgs boson, gravity waves, global warming) we have got right. No Prophet of the past can even hold a matchstick to us scientists.

 

[DavidFirth]

Kilroy was here

 

[Muslim-UK]

I don't want to turn this into yet another anti-Islam thread, but there is only one religion that does not take kindly to anything approaching criticism - especially against its prophet.

Criticism is welcome, but over stepping the mark and attempting to vilify ANY of the prophets of GOD should be met with a firm, no nonsense response.

 

[columbus]

Sure there are. They usually come from Cambridge, Oxford, MIT, NASA, CERN etc. Look at just how many prophecies (eclipses, Higgs boson, gravity waves, global warming) we have got right. No Prophet of the past can even hold a matchstick to us scientists.

This is why I think religion is about people and science is about God.
Tom

 

[columbus]

Criticism is welcome, but over stepping the mark and attempting to vilify ANY of the prophets of GOD should be met with a firm, no nonsense response.

Like shooting up a magazine staff? Or using your liberal western right to free speech to demonstrate against freedom of speech?
Tom

 

[YmirGF]

Criticism is welcome, but over stepping the mark and attempting to vilify ANY of the prophets of GOD should be met with a firm, no nonsense response.

One would think that enlightened spiritual beings, with their direct connection to god, would be far more understanding and would just look at the naysayers and smile, roll their eyes, and continue on about their day.

 

[Laika]

I don't want to turn this into yet another anti-Islam thread, but there is only one religion that does not take kindly to anything approaching criticism - especially against its prophet.

I could make a joke about the Jews killing all the first born sons of Egypt for not taking Moses seriously, but I think that might make everyone uncomfortable.

 

[YmirGF]

I could make a joke about the Jews killing all the first born sons of Egypt for not taking Moses seriously, but I think that might make everyone uncomfortable.

Could have sworn that that was god and not the Jews.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Like shooting up a magazine staff?
Tom

Violence is never the answer. The Prophet pbuh would correct such people and if they persisted would simply walk away.

 

[sayak83]

I could make a joke about the Jews killing all the first born sons of Egypt for not taking Moses seriously, but I think that might make everyone uncomfortable.

Factual correction:- Jews did not kill them. Their God supposedly did. Though it's a made up story of a little nation getting punched left and right by Assyria and Egypt and venting their frustration in mythological form. Every mouse fantasies about belling the cat after all. Poor mouse.

 

[sayak83]

Violence is never the answer. The Prophet pbuh would correct such people and if they persisted would simply walk away.

By the way, you straightaway thought I was talking only about Muslims. I was not. In the 20th century several such prophets with their fanatical followers have arisen... Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol pot, Kim Jong Un and also ISIS, Taliban. I was thinking of all the poor folks who were, are and will continue to be in their mercy.

 

[columbus]

By the way, you straightaway thought I was talking only about Muslims. I was not. In the 20th century several such prophets with their fanatical followers have arisen... Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol pot, Kim Jong Un and also ISIS, Taliban. I was thinking of all the poor folks who were, are and will continue to be in their mercy.

Nor is it limited to Communists and Islamicists. Recent USA history is rife with self-described "spokesmen for God"(of the Christian flavor) advocating violence. From the assassination of Chavez to the invasion of Iraq, from Capital Punishment to beefing up the militarization of the police, it's just endless.
Tom

 

[DavidFirth]

For the words of the prophets were written on the studio wall

 

[Laika]

Could have sworn that that was god and not the Jews.

It was the Jewish God. The same guy who wouldn't fix the plumbing for forty days and forty nights even if everyone drowned and outsources the job of saving life on earth to Noah and his three sons by getting them to build an ark to show his benevolence.

You have to admit, that is someone with strange priorities.

Factual correction:- Jews did not kill them. Their God supposedly did. Though it's a made up story of a little nation getting punched left and right by Assyria and Egypt and venting their frustration in mythological form. Every mouse fantasies about belling the cat after all. Poor mouse.

My point (which made me uncomfortable) was along the lines that if it was Allah who killed the first born in Egypt we'd be saying its representative of how Islam is an evil religion and how Muslims are evil for worshipping an evil god and not listening to their conscience. We wouldn't think twice about drawing a distinction between Muhammad, Allah and Muslims. We'd probably call anyone who did "Islam apologists" trying to protect "religious moderates" for worshipping an evil/false religion. But after two thousands years of abuse to the point of extermination, we lay off the Jews.

Reduce it down to school playground stuff, we feel guilty for bullying the orphan kid who lost his parents to the nazis but we'll quite happily kick the crap out of that kid whose mum wears full body covering because we think she's weird and oppressed even if she chose to wear it. All this, even though they worship potentially the same god. I don't know if thats the case but it just makes it all very absurd.

 

[sayak83]

It was the Jewish God. The same guy who wouldn't fix the plumbing for forty days and forty nights even if everyone drowned and outsources the job of saving life on earth to Noah and his three sons by getting them to build an ark to show his benevolence.

You have to admit, that is someone with strange priorities.



My point (which made me uncomfortable) was along the lines that if it was Allah who killed the first born in Egypt we'd be saying its representative of how Islam is an evil religion and how Muslims are evil for worshipping an evil god and not listening to their conscience. We wouldn't think twice about drawing a distinction between Muhammad, Allah and Muslims. We'd probably call anyone who did "Islam apologists" trying to protect "religious moderates" for worshipping an evil/false religion. But after two thousands years of abuse to the point of extermination, we lay off the Jews.

Reduce it down to school playground stuff, we feel guilty for bullying the orphan kid who lost his parents to the nazis but we'll quite happily kick the crap out of that kid whose mum wears full body covering because we think she's weird and oppressed even if she chose to wear it. All this, even though they worship potentially the same god. I don't know if thats the case but it just makes it all very absurd.

Of course criticism should be fair.

 

[Akivah]

I'm wondering how people try to distinguish between "true" prophets and "false" prophets. If someone walks down the street claiming to be a prophet for a religion (admittedly unlikely) you have to figure out whether you can take them at their word or whether you just move on trying to avoid making eye contact with the crazy person.

Do you think this is a reasonable view? Or is there something missing?

What's missing is the proper definition of the word 'prophet'. I know that Judaism and Christianity have different definitions of the word, so I'd assume that other religions have their own definition.

The Torah tells us that we can identify a false prophet if the person encourages us to worship foreign gods or idols, or tells us stuff that contradicts the Tanakh.

 

[Akivah]

You can contact the jinn who have the ability to use wormholes and other methods to glimpse into the future, that information relayed to a earthly human 'prophet' is worth nothing if they are not preaching worship of GOD alone, and testifying to the truthfulness of ALL the previous Prophets along with previous Scriptures.

Do you know of any Prophets post mid 7th Century who fit the bill? I certainly don't.

I can't even think of any person that fit the bill after the pre 1st Century.

 

[Laika]

What's missing is the proper definition of the word 'prophet'. I know that Judaism and Christianity have different definitions of the word, so I'd assume that other religions have their own definition.

The Torah tells us that we can identify a false prophet if the person encourages us to worship foreign gods or idols, or tells us stuff that contradicts the Tanakh.

Yeah. I didn't take that into account when I wrote the OP as I forgot this is an internet forum and no-one uses the same definition.

I can't even think of any person that fit the bill after the pre 1st Century.

Not sure, but maybe Zoroaster as the founder of an early Monotheistic religion (Zoroastrianism)? He might be worth a look for his influence on Jewish traditions (and therefore Abrahamic religions).

 

[Sleeppy]

All prophets are false/faulty, where possible.

The first are last and the last first. Your children are your prophets, and you are theirs.