False Prophets

[Grandliseur]

Except that you're not correct about the case. A naʕarah (translated as "damsel" here) is a girl between the ages of 12 and 12.5. It's only until this age that a father has the right to marry off his daughter. That's why the passage states "I gave my daughter to this man (v. 16)". Over that age, she would be accepting her own marriage and the father wouldn't be involved. She's stoned at her father's house, because even after the betrothal, she remains in her father's house until the marriage. That means that she had an affair with someone while she was still at her father's house. That is why the case and complaint is keeps describing that they were betrothed and then married. Besides for that, like every other judicial matter, without witnesses that saw her, he get's tossed out on his head. That is the principle of Deut. 17:6 and 19:15. You can't just walk into court and say whatever you want. Especially in a case like this where its entirely possible that she lost her virginity from a wound or strenuous activity.

It's entirely possible to have children outside marriage.

I'll read up on it. Clearly, there are things to be considered. Why you think you can put ages on the child in this case - is not supported by scripture; though, you may have support in some other writings?! (? give me source once more). If it is supported by ancient history is then the question since I reject recent history as applying to the ancient times.

 

[Tumah]

I'll read up on it. Clearly, there are things to be considered. Why you think you can put ages on the child in this case - is not supported by scripture; though, you may have support in some other writings?! (? give me source once more). If it is supported by ancient history is then the question since I reject recent history as applying to the ancient times.

These are the three time frames that come out: a minor, a lad/damsel and an adult.
A minor is someone still under their father's control. They also aren't accountable for their actions.
A lad/damsel is an in-between stage where someone who is already accountable for their actions but is still under their father's control.
An adult is accountable for their actions and is not under their father's control.

Ex. 21:7 "When a man sells his daughter". This is talking about when a father sells his minor daughter.

Deut. 22:23 "When there is a virgin damsel betrothed to a man". A damsel is not called her father's daughter.

Deut. 30:17 "between a father and his daughter, in her damsel-ness in the house of her father." This verse describes two types of girls: the daughter and the damsel who is still in her father's house.

Deut. 24:1 "When a man takes a woman". This verse is talking about an adult woman.

We know that a damsel is of the majority age, because otherwise she wouldn't be held accountable for her action and couldn't be punished. On the other hand, she's not called a "woman", even though the term exists in other passages.

I don't mind if you're not happy with the age parameter the Pharisees understand her as being in. It has to do with traditions as to what age a person reaches the majority and what physical signs indicate adulthood. But the three classifications are expressed as above however you choose to interpret them and the one who wrote them, certainly had something specific in mind or these Laws become meaningless.

 

[Grandliseur]

These are the three time frames that come out: a minor, a lad/damsel and an adult.
A minor is someone still under their father's control. They also aren't accountable for their actions.
A lad/damsel is an in-between stage where someone who is already accountable for their actions but is still under their father's control.
An adult is accountable for their actions and is not under their father's control.

Ex. 21:7 "When a man sells his daughter". This is talking about when a father sells his minor daughter.

Deut. 22:23 "When there is a virgin damsel betrothed to a man". A damsel is not called her father's daughter.

Deut. 30:17 "between a father and his daughter, in her damsel-ness in the house of her father." This verse describes two types of girls: the daughter and the damsel who is still in her father's house.

Deut. 24:1 "When a man takes a woman". This verse is talking about an adult woman.

We know that a damsel is of the majority age, because otherwise she wouldn't be held accountable for her action and couldn't be punished. On the other hand, she's not called a "woman", even though the term exists in other passages.

I don't mind if you're not happy with the age parameter the Pharisees understand her as being in. It has to do with traditions as to what age a person reaches the majority and what physical signs indicate adulthood. But the three classifications are expressed as above however you choose to interpret them and the one who wrote them, certainly had something specific in mind or these Laws become meaningless.

In scripture, when speaking about the time of the Exodus, those 20 and above were held responsible for the actions of the nation and were condemned to die before entering the promised land. Those below were not held accountable. (by memory)
I have copied this into my files so that I can take my time to consider the matter.

It is fairly obvious that those such as I who do not have the culture or the language suffer certain disadvantages that the ones raised in the language and culture do not have.

 

[Tumah]

In scripture, when speaking about the time of the Exodus, those 20 and above were held responsible for the actions of the nation and were condemned to die before entering the promised land. Those below were not held accountable. (by memory)
I have copied this into my files so that I can take my time to consider the matter.

It is fairly obvious that those such as I who do not have the culture or the language suffer certain disadvantages that the ones raised in the language and culture do not have.

That's true, but Deut. 2:16 and Joshua 5:6 both link the age to being those that are "men of war". The age for going out to the army was from age 20 (and according to Jewish sources, until the age 60 as Lev. 27 gives that age group its own value). That seems to indicate that there was something about being "men of war" that earned them the prize of death by desert, otherwise it need not be mentioned.

On a related note, we also have a tradition that G-d doesn't execute the punishment of cutting off until the age of twenty. That's what happened here: these people were killed by G-d before their time. That is a separate punishment to the capital punishment executed by the [earthly] courts which begins from the age of majority (12 or 13 according to Jewish Law).

 

[Grandliseur]

That's true, but Deut. 2:16 and Joshua 5:6 both link the age to being those that are "men of war". The age for going out to the army was from age 20 (and according to Jewish sources, until the age 60 as Lev. 27 gives that age group its own value). That seems to indicate that there was something about being "men of war" that earned them the prize of death by desert, otherwise it need not be mentioned.

On a related note, we also have a tradition that G-d doesn't execute the punishment of cutting off until the age of twenty. That's what happened here: these people were killed by G-d before their time. That is a separate punishment to the capital punishment executed by the [earthly] courts which begins from the age of majority (12 or 13 according to Jewish Law).

Jewish law is still harsh; though, in some cases I would agree with capital punishment for the young. There has been terrible crimes by minors.

 

[Sleeppy]

Jewish law is still harsh; though, in some cases I would agree with capital punishment for the young. There has been terrible crimes by minors.

Due to serious ignorance.

 

[Grandliseur]

That's true, but Deut. 2:16 and Joshua 5:6 both link the age to being those that are "men of war". The age for going out to the army was from age 20 (and according to Jewish sources, until the age 60 as Lev. 27 gives that age group its own value). That seems to indicate that there was something about being "men of war" that earned them the prize of death by desert, otherwise it need not be mentioned.

On a related note, we also have a tradition that G-d doesn't execute the punishment of cutting off until the age of twenty. That's what happened here: these people were killed by G-d before their time. That is a separate punishment to the capital punishment executed by the [earthly] courts which begins from the age of majority (12 or 13 according to Jewish Law).

Interesting study, also unusual. There is not that much in scripture giving us such ages unless you also have the ability to get cultural information relating to that time.
I also know that priests began their service at 30, which was why our Jesus began serving from that age.

What I don't know much about is how people back then counted their years, did they keep track of month and day they were born or was it just the year. These are perhaps details you might know. In the case of Jesus, at the very least, according to our writings, it seems that God kept track of time in months, if it was more detailed than that, I do not know.

 

[Grandliseur]

Due to serious ignorance.

At times ignorance, at times insanity. However, society must be protected from serial killers be they minor or adult. A belief in divine justice where God might fix an insane person and let that one be brought back in Paradise would make a death sentence OK for such ones who would be serial killers.

 

[Scrooge]

Then why aren't all believers prophets?

Anyone being used in any ministry that involves speaking is using the Spirit of prophecy. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. In HIM we live, and move, and have our being. We are partakers of HIS divine nature. That still small voice.

 

[Muslim-UK]

It wouldn't be a new song if everyone already knew it, right?

God is saying it WILL be a NEW Song. Had the Laws of Moses pbuh and way of life already been established when Isaiah pbuh was writing his scroll of Future Events to come? YES they had, so what is this NEW Song?

What? No! Kedar is a city in the desert and Sela is a city in the mountains. It's saying that people from the desert, such as Kedar and people from the mountains, such as Sela will sing praise to G-d.

I agree with your understanding of this, and am trying to pinpoint the locations. Kedar was a brother of the Israelites right? His uncle was Jacob/Israel correct? Kedar's cousin Esau married a Ishmaelite woman.

If it will make you happier to have a name, than Joshua is a name of a Jewish prophet who fulfills all the conditions of Deut.

This is a problem because read again Deut 18:15 - 21

15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— 16 just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ 17 And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like youfrom among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

In verse 15 Moses pbuh is speaking and he is addressing the Nation of Israel as a single collective.

Verse 16/17 God will no longer speak directly to anyone of Israel as per their request. This excludes ANY Jew.

Verse 18 A Prophet will rise from their brothers. <<<<< How can you be a brother to yourself? Brethren/kinsmen must point to a non Jew

Joshua could not have been this Prophet, he was a Jew and in Deuteronomy 34:10 this is confirmed:

10 And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,

GOD could just have said, I will raise up a Prophet from amongst your seed or descendants, if He was pointing to a Jew.

Did you?

Yes, the evidence from your Bible shows 900 years after Moses pbuh, Ezra the Scribe wrote 'God's Book' and explained the Laws and statutes to the Nation who all gathered to be taught their new way of life. God in the Qur'an explains they changed what was revealed and threw some of it behind their backs in concealment.

What you've done here is extremely silly. You just picked a few attributes of Moses and said that any following prophet needs to have these attributes to be like Moses. Why did you not also add that they must be born of Amram? Or born of a man and his aunt? Or be born in Egypt? Or split a sea? Or spoke to burning bushes?

What you've done is self-serving. You picked the attributes that best fit Muhammad and interpolated them into the verse.

All the verse actually says is that the following prophet would be from the midst of the Jews, from the Jewish brethren - just like Moses was [from the midst of the Jews and from the Jewish brethren].
That's all.

This Prophet has to be like Moses pbuh, specifically 'like' Moses pbuh, so what set Moses pbuh apart from other Jewish Prophets like Joshua pbuh?

This is why other commentators have suggested Balaam may have been they Prophet mentioned in Deut 18:18, but he was unlike Moses pbuh.

The Sages note the Torah'statement here that in Israel there will never be a Prophet like Moses implies *that among the non-Jewish nations - there could be such a prophet* and the Sages explain this Prophet was Balaam. Artscholl Chumash Commentary on Deuteronomy - pg 187

Interestingly enough the Prophet mentioned in Deut 18:18 had not materialised 200 B.C. or during the First Century A.D. We know this from the Dead Sea Scrolls and Jewish writings from the community of Jesus pbuh, a very well known Jew of the First Century.

You can see why Brethren extends to further afield than Jewish bloodlines:

Starting with Isaac and Ishmael pbut, we know their children intermarried. Moses pbuh himself married a Midianite woman. Remember he took sanctuary with Jethro pbuh the High Priest following his escape from Egypt.

And what became of Ishmael pbuh...
"....and he shall dwell in the presence of all his *brethren.*" Genesis 16:12

Deuteronomy 18:18 the Prophet like Moses pbuh from amongst the *brethren* of the people.
Edomites are called brethren of the Israelites...
Deuteronomy 4 "And command thou the people, saying, Ye are to pass through the coast of your brethren the children of Esau, which dwell in Seir;" <<<< Talking of Seir, you guys dismissed the Prophet to come from there too.

(1) Abram's nephew, Lot, is termed "brother" (Genesis 14:14);

(2) Moses' fellow-countrymen are "brethren" (Exodus 2:11; Acts 3:22; compare Hebrews 7:5);

(3) a member of the same tribe (2 Samuel 19:12);

(4) an ally (Amos 1:9), or an allied or cognate people (Numbers 20:14);

(5) used of common discipleship or the kinship of humanity (Matthew 23:8);

(6) of moral likeness or kinship (Proverbs 18:9);

(7) of friends (Job 6:15);

(8) an equal in rank or office (1 Kings 9:13);

(9) one of the same faith (Acts 11:29; 1 Corinthians 5:11);

(10) a favorite oriental metaphor used to express likeness or similarity (Job 30:29, "I am a brother to jackals");

Brother - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Clearly the Ishmaelites are Brethren of the Israelites.

1. Jacob claiming Joseph’s children as his own. Gen 48:5 And now your two sons, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; Ephraim and Manasseh shall be mine, as Reuben and Simeon are. 2. Joseph’s grandchildren were credited as his children. Gen 50: 23 And Joseph saw Ephraim's children of the 3rd generation. The children also of Machir the son of Manasseh were counted as Joseph’s own.

The text clearly says from their (the Jews) brethren.

Intermarriage was banned, although marrying into another another nation does not remove one's identity as a Jew.

The children from the marriage would be brothers to the Jewish people.

No. They are related because the same language that the Torah describes in the selection of kings is present in the following passage about the selection of prophets. Whatever interpretation you have for the nature of the kind in chapter 17 will apply to the nature of the prophet in chapter 18. Since we know that the kings selected by G-d were all Jewish it follows that when the same adjectives are used to describe the prophets G-d selects that they will be Jewish as well.

It's clear the Jewish Nation would have no issue with their brethren being made King over them, or a Prophet being sent from amongst their Brethren to them.

This leeway obviously doesn't extend to the expected Messiah, who must descend from the Davidic line.

I have not. I've only used it to establish a point. Rather than deflect the argument, try addressing it.

Simple to address; there's no evidence from History showing anyone used Sihr to perform great miracles.

 

[Sleeppy]

At times ignorance, at times insanity. However, society must be protected from serial killers be they minor or adult.

..By becoming proactive. Prevention is much more efficient protection, than is revenge.

 

[MohammadPali]

Who did moses marry ? Ziphora, and where was she from ? she was from the Midian region. And what famous city is in that region today ? Medina, hijaz, where the prophet Mohammad pbuh is from.

The jews will never confirm that moses married an arab. Why would moses pbuh marry an arab ? He didn't choose a hebrew, why ? Its because of lineage. He also married a cusheit woman, (East African woman)

Not many people know this. This is why in islam we say we are closer to moses than the jews are.

We are even closer to Abraham peace be upon him in 2 ways, hagar, and another woman named Keturah . But she definitely was one of Abrahams wives.

No one knows who keturah, is, she might be one person hagar, theres debate about it. Some rabbis says shes just one person hagar, some say no it was 2 people.

The bottom line is LINEAGE, she was an arab as well.


Keturah bore Abraham six sons: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. Genesis and First Chronicles also list seven of her grandsons (Sheba, Dedan, Ephah, Epher, Enoch, Abida, and Eldaah).[3][2] Keturah's sons were said to have represented the Arab tribes who lived south and east of Palestine.


This is all confirmed, and as usual, it doesn't fit a criteria, their agenda, and ofcourse rejected.

 

[Grandliseur]

..By becoming proactive. Prevention is much more efficient protection, than is revenge.

Killing serial killers is not revenge but prevention. There is such a thing as evil. Do you call good what happened in L.Vegas, or evil?

 

[Sleeppy]

Killing serial killers is not revenge but prevention. There is such a thing as evil. Do you call good what happened in L.Vegas, or evil?

False. Killing serial killers does not prevent serial killers from existing.

 

[Tumah]

Who did moses marry ? Ziphora, and where was she from ? she was from the Midian region. And what famous city is in that region today ? Medina, hijaz, where the prophet Mohammad pbuh is from.

The jews will never confirm that moses married an arab. Why would moses pbuh marry an arab ? He didn't choose a hebrew, why ? Its because of lineage. He also married a cusheit woman, (East African woman)

Not many people know this. This is why in islam we say we are closer to moses than the jews are.

We are even closer to Abraham peace be upon him in 2 ways, hagar, and another woman named Keturah . But she definitely was one of Abrahams wives.

No one knows who keturah, is, she might be one person hagar, theres debate about it. Some rabbis says shes just one person hagar, some say no it was 2 people.

The bottom line is LINEAGE, she was an arab as well.


Keturah bore Abraham six sons: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. Genesis and First Chronicles also list seven of her grandsons (Sheba, Dedan, Ephah, Epher, Enoch, Abida, and Eldaah).[3][2] Keturah's sons were said to have represented the Arab tribes who lived south and east of Palestine.


This is all confirmed, and as usual, it doesn't fit a criteria, their agenda, and ofcourse rejected.

Can you provide evidence of any Jew that has ever denied that Moses' wife was from Midian or that Hagar was from Egypt?

Abraham and Sarah were from Iraq, Rebecca's, Rachel's and Leah's family were all from Abraham's family from Iraq as well. Jacob's sons either married their sisters or local Canaanites. So why do you not consider Iraqis to be Arabs, but Egyptians yes?

Why would moses pbuh marry an arab ? He didn't choose a hebrew, why ? Its because of lineage.

No, it's because he was exiled from Egypt for like 40 years or something. Guess where all the Hebrews were at the time...

This is why in islam we say we are closer to moses than the jews are.

That's foolish since Moses and the Jews share the same family. You mean that some Arabs are closer to Moses' wife. Not Muslims. Muslims come from many different ethnicities.

 

[MohammadPali]

Can you provide evidence of any Jew that has ever denied that Moses' wife was from Midian or that Hagar was from Egypt?

No I can't, thats not the problem though, they don't acknowledge that she was an arab. Or that both Abraham wives were arabs. You can deny inheritance of Abraham,but you can never deny blood. Which is why we firmly reject alot of judaic texts because their forged, changed, or made to suit their needs. There are coded names and sentences for subjects.


Not all jews today are of jewish origin, they are mostly east european today. Lineage is important especially prophetic lineage.

He was in exile, that doesn't mean a single thing, plenty of Hebrews to choose from.

We definitely are closer to moses. It didn't take long for his progeny to reject him, theres even talmudic debates or statements from babylon that says that some 40 rabbis received better revelation than moses.

 

[Tumah]

God is saying it WILL be a NEW Song. Had the Laws of Moses pbuh and way of life already been established when Isaiah pbuh was writing his scroll of Future Events to come? YES they had, so what is this NEW Song?

The Laws of Moses have nothing to do with this new song. Laws =/= song. Laws are commandments. A song is something you sing. Your refutation makes 0 sense.

I agree with your understanding of this, and am trying to pinpoint the locations. Kedar was a brother of the Israelites right? His uncle was Jacob/Israel correct? Kedar's cousin Esau married a Ishmaelite woman.

Kedar was not a brother of the Israelites. Kedar was a brother to the other "children of Ishmael". Jacob was not an Israelite, he was Israel. His children were "the children of Israel". Esau had three wives, one of whom was called Basmath and Maḥlath who was a daughter of Ishmael, a sister of Kedar.

This is a problem because read again Deut 18:15 - 21

15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— 16 just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ 17 And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like youfrom among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

In verse 15 Moses pbuh is speaking and he is addressing the Nation of Israel as a single collective.

It switches back and forth between referring to the nation as a collective and the plural. Verse 15 is in the singular, verse 18 is in the plural.

Verse 16/17 God will no longer speak directly to anyone of Israel as per their request. This excludes ANY Jew.

So, what nation were Sulaiman, Yunis, Isa, Yahya and what status did they have according to Islam?

Those verse are obviously saying that it was requested that the entire nation not be directly spoken to by G-d. Not that individuals shouldn't be able to.

Verse 18 A Prophet will rise from their brothers. <<<<< How can you be a brother to yourself? Brethren/kinsmen must point to a non Jew

No, all the Jews are brothers to each other and one among the brothers would be made a prophet.

Joshua could not have been this Prophet, he was a Jew and in Deuteronomy 34:10 this is confirmed:

10 And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,

GOD could just have said, I will raise up a Prophet from amongst your seed or descendants, if He was pointing to a Jew.

That would exclude later converts and the children of converts.

Yes, the evidence from your Bible shows 900 years after Moses pbuh, Ezra the Scribe wrote 'God's Book' and explained the Laws and statutes to the Nation who all gathered to be taught their new way of life.

Ezra wrote G-d's Book because...that's what scribes do. He gathered the nation together because they had just spent 70 years in exile and had forgotten many things that they needed to know.

God in the Qur'an explains they changed what was revealed and threw some of it behind their backs in concealment.

Whatever.

This Prophet has to be like Moses pbuh, specifically 'like' Moses pbuh, so what set Moses pbuh apart from other Jewish Prophets like Joshua pbuh?

Why would you assume that the prophet has to be like Moses in a way that is not like Joshua? Joshua was not a prophet at the time this passage was said.

This is why other commentators have suggested Balaam may have been they Prophet mentioned in Deut 18:18, but he was unlike Moses pbuh.

Balaam was not a prophet for Israel. The first words are "I will set up a prophet for you". Balaam was not sent for Israel. Technically he wasn't sent at all.

The Sages note the Torah'statement here that in Israel there will never be a Prophet like Moses implies *that among the non-Jewish nations - there could be such a prophet* and the Sages explain this Prophet was Balaam. Artscholl Chumash Commentary on Deuteronomy - pg 187

Thar is written about the statement "who knew G-d face to face".

Interestingly enough the Prophet mentioned in Deut 18:18 had not materialised 200 B.C. or during the First Century A.D. We know this from the Dead Sea Scrolls and Jewish writings from the community of Jesus pbuh, a very well known Jew of the First Century.

No we don't.

You can see why Brethren extends to further afield than Jewish bloodlines:

Starting with Isaac and Ishmael pbut, we know their children intermarried. Moses pbuh himself married a Midianite woman. Remember he took sanctuary with Jethro pbuh the High Priest following his escape from Egypt.

And what became of Ishmael pbuh...
"....and he shall dwell in the presence of all his *brethren.*" Genesis 16:12

Yes and how was that prophecy fulfilled? Gen. 25:18 says that Ishamel died on the face of his brothers...right after it described the region where the children of Keturah lived. In other words, the children of Keturah are called Ishmael's brothers.

Deuteronomy 18:18 the Prophet like Moses pbuh from amongst the *brethren* of the people.
Edomites are called brethren of the Israelites...
Deuteronomy 4 "And command thou the people, saying, Ye are to pass through the coast of your brethren the children of Esau, which dwell in Seir;" <<<< Talking of Seir, you guys dismissed the Prophet to come from there too.

(1) Abram's nephew, Lot, is termed "brother" (Genesis 14:14);

(2) Moses' fellow-countrymen are "brethren" (Exodus 2:11; Acts 3:22; compare Hebrews 7:5);

(3) a member of the same tribe (2 Samuel 19:12);

(4) an ally (Amos 1:9), or an allied or cognate people (Numbers 20:14);

(5) used of common discipleship or the kinship of humanity (Matthew 23:8);

(6) of moral likeness or kinship (Proverbs 18:9);

(7) of friends (Job 6:15);

(8) an equal in rank or office (1 Kings 9:13);

(9) one of the same faith (Acts 11:29; 1 Corinthians 5:11);

(10) a favorite oriental metaphor used to express likeness or similarity (Job 30:29, "I am a brother to jackals");

Brother - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Clearly the Ishmaelites are Brethren of the Israelites.

1. Jacob claiming Joseph’s children as his own. Gen 48:5 And now your two sons, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; Ephraim and Manasseh shall be mine, as Reuben and Simeon are. 2. Joseph’s grandchildren were credited as his children. Gen 50: 23 And Joseph saw Ephraim's children of the 3rd generation. The children also of Machir the son of Manasseh were counted as Joseph’s own.

The children from the marriage would be brothers to the Jewish people.

It's clear the Jewish Nation would have no issue with their brethren being made King over them, or a Prophet being sent from amongst their Brethren to them.

This leeway obviously doesn't extend to the expected Messiah, who must descend from the Davidic line.

Those are very nice points except you haven't dealt with my argument. The same phrases that G-d uses to describe from whom He will choose a king from the Jews he uses for whom he will choose a prophet. Of the three times that G-d chose kings for the Jews all three of them were from the Jewish people.

Not only that, but the directive to choosing a king comes with a prohibition to not take a king from a foreign people. According to the instances of "brother" you've given here, there are no people foreign to the Jewish people because every single nation in the area can trace relatives to the Jewish people. It's not logical to say that there would be a command allowing and excluding every other nation.

But the answer is easy:
(1) From Abraham's nephew Lot being called his brother, we see that the nephews of all twelve sons of Israel were all considered brothers to the sons.
(2) The Jews are called Moses' brothers in Exodus and that's as we would expect.
(3) A member of the same tribe would be brothers and that is as we would expect as well.
(4) Allied nations are called "brother" in a metaphorical sense and not a literal sense as a way of expressing closeness.
(5) Irrelevant.
(6) People of moral likeness are called "brother" in the metaphorical sense.
(7) Friends are called "brother" in the metaphorical sense. Although I'm not convinced that verse is talking about his friends.
(8) See (4) and (7)
(9) Irrelevant
(10) See (6)

So what we have are two basic ways the word "brother" is used: for close family and in the metaphorical sense for people who are not really brothers but share some form of kinship.

So we know that Ishmael and his line are not close relatives to the children of Israel. They branch off from their grandfather Isaac, so that by the time we get to the children of Israel, Ishmael's grandchildren are second-cousins to the children of Jacob. There is no precedent for second-cousins being called "brothers", nor were the two nations allies.

Simple to address; there's no evidence from History showing anyone used Sihr to perform great miracles.

If you could tell that it was sihr, then that would defeat the purpose, no?

 

[MohammadPali]

God doesn't prefer one creature over the other. He didn't create mankind because one is better than the other. He created mankind for worship. He loves all humans, there is no such thing as a god that prefers one kind of people over the other. If you think god chose a particular people over the other than you sound genocidal. What kind of merciful god is this ? He is the merciful isn't he ? The majestic ? The sublime ?

God prefers one over the other ? just like that ? If god chose a certain kind of people then whats the point in ALLLL of this ? Whats the point of our lives carrying on right now ? Wouldn't he have brought the day of judgement already ? There is no such thing. Everyone is gods people.

God created 3 kinds of people, the believer, the unbeliever, and the hypocrite. The most people that go to the hell-fire is the hypocrite.

 

[Tumah]

No I can't, thats not the problem though, they don't acknowledge that she was an arab. Or that both Abraham wives were arabs. You can deny inheritance of Abraham,but you can never deny blood. Which is why we firmly reject alot of judaic texts because their forged, changed, or made to suit their needs. There are coded names and sentences for subjects.

No, that is the problem. You see, if your accusations have no basis in reality then it's just ranting.

You are an unfortunate example of what a happens to a Muslim when he's filled with hate. You've made up stories in your head about Jews that are simply not true. Alternatively, this is what your Imams and Sheikhs are teaching you. And that's even worse, because they're stuffing you with lies and in your love for hate, you're swallowing them wholeheartedly. Either way, you're in a terrible situation.

Not all jews today are of jewish origin, they are mostly east european today.

No, even the Jews from Eastern Europe are of Jewish origin.

Lineage is important especially prophetic lineage.

Source?

He was in exile, that doesn't mean a single thing, plenty of Hebrews to choose from.

All the Hebrews were in Egypt. Moses was barred from Egypt. There are no Hebrews to choose from.

We definitely are closer to moses. It didn't take long for his progeny to reject him, theres even talmudic debates or statements from babylon that says that some 40 rabbis received better revelation than moses.

Do you have a source for this or is this another thing that you made up/were stuffed with by lying Sheikhs?

 

[MohammadPali]

No, that is the problem. You see, if your accusations have no basis in reality then it's just ranting.

You are an unfortunate example of what a happens to a Muslim when he's filled with hate. You've made up stories in your head about Jews that are simply not true. Alternatively, this is what your Imams and Sheikhs are teaching you. And that's even worse, because they're stuffing you with lies and in your love for hate, you're swallowing them wholeheartedly. Either way, you're in a terrible situation.


No, even the Jews from Eastern Europe are of Jewish origin.


Source?


All the Hebrews were in Egypt. Moses was barred from Egypt. There are no Hebrews to choose from.


Do you have a source for this or is this another thing that you made up/were stuffed with by lying Sheikhs?

Did moses pbuh marry an arab ? YES OR NO

Did Abraham pbuh marry 2 arabs or 1 ? YES or NO

Maybe not 40 rabbis, maybe 70 elders or rabbis and throughout history the oral testament is gone or lost . Don't get mad at me that you need a book to understand another book for another book, to understand your own testaments. Its not a secret. I didn't lie and you know this, and of course its expected that all jews are of jewish origin (ROLLS EYES ). How many books you have now ? 5 ? And how many debates in the talmud ? You can find arguments about arugula or plants, to what kind of incense is made on the temple mount, its all in there. READ IT.

The shieks I listen to disregard the teachings of judaism, its not even necessary to look into Judaism or Christianity. One religion is the religon of redemption, and the other is the religion of paul.

Everything I learned from Judaism is straight from the source, and everything I learned about Christianity is straight from judaism, and 1st centrury christian scholars.