Father alone is God

[TiggerII]

"5. And when you refer to John 1:14, notice that there is no definitive article which means its a descriptive sentence, not definitive. Its a uniqueness, not definitely "the only born child of God". And if you want it to be that, then the Bible has a discrepancy."

What about the article use with "only-begotten" in John 3:16 and 3:18?

 

[JerryMyers]

"5. And when you refer to John 1:14, notice that there is no definitive article which means its a descriptive sentence, not definitive. Its a uniqueness, not definitely "the only born child of God". And if you want it to be that, then the Bible has a discrepancy."

What about the article use with "only-begotten" in John 3:16 and 3:18?

So what about John 3:16 or John 3:18 ?? Do you want to explain what John 3:16 mean ??
By the way, the word ‘begotten’ in John 3:16 is a fabrication and that’s why most of the English-translated versions of the Bible you have today (except the King James Version) has removed the word ‘begotten’ in John 3:16.

 

[TiggerII]

"So what about John 3:16 or John 3:18 ?? Do you want to explain what John 3:16 mean ??
"By the way, the word ‘begotten’ in John 3:16 is a fabrication and that’s why most of the English-translated versions of the Bible you have today (except the King James Version) has removed the word ‘begotten’ in John 3:16."

There are 9 uses of monogenes in the NT. This word is defined only as "only-begotten" in the New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance (1981). Furthermore, even the NASB (1960-1995) translates 6 of these 9 occurrences as "only-begotten."

Some Bible translators have removed the "begotten" part of this word in a few places because of their own religious beliefs.

"Only-begotten" when applied to the Son of God indicates that he is the only one produced by God Himself before all other things. All other things were created by God through that Son of God. Others are referred to as sons of God or son of God, but are not "Only-begotten" sons.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

"So what about John 3:16 or John 3:18 ?? Do you want to explain what John 3:16 mean ??
"By the way, the word ‘begotten’ in John 3:16 is a fabrication and that’s why most of the English-translated versions of the Bible you have today (except the King James Version) has removed the word ‘begotten’ in John 3:16."

There are 9 uses of monogenes in the NT. This word is defined only as "only-begotten" in the New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance (1981). Furthermore, even the NASB (1960-1995) translates 6 of these 9 occurrences as "only-begotten."

Some Bible translators have removed the "begotten" part of this word in a few places because of their own religious beliefs.

"Only-begotten" when applied to the Son of God indicates that he is the only one produced by God Himself before all other things. All other things were created by God through that Son of God. Others are referred to as sons of God or son of God, but are not "Only-begotten" sons.

The "being" that was Jesus existed long before Jesus was born in a human body. The human form was Jesus was "begotten" when God caused a virgin to become pregnant. The spirit that lived in that human body was the spirit that existed long before. So Jesus was begotten as a human even though he lived as a spirit since the beginning.

 

[JerryMyers]

There are 9 uses of monogenes in the NT. This word is defined only as "only-begotten" in the New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance (1981). Furthermore, even the NASB (1960-1995) translates 6 of these 9 occurrences as "only-begotten."

Some Bible translators have removed the "begotten" part of this word in a few places because of their own religious beliefs.

Well, that only tells us the word ‘begotten’ in John 3:16 cannot be a God-inspired word but merely up to the discretion and intention of the NT authors. Fact is the word ‘begotten’ was translated from the Greek word ‘monogenes’ which mean ‘unique, one of a kind’, but never meant to be translated as ‘begotten’.

"Only-begotten" when applied to the Son of God indicates that he is the only one produced by God Himself before all other things. All other things were created by God through that Son of God. Others are referred to as sons of God or son of God, but are not "Only-begotten" sons.

Not really - the Greek word ‘monogenes’ in John 3:16 was mistranslated as ‘begotten’ because the scribes wanted the readers of the English-translated Bibles to believe Jesus was literally the begotten son of God when he is not God the Son, not according to God or Jesus himself. Jesus has never referred to himself, not even once, as the ‘only-begotten’ son of God nor has any of his disciples referred to Jesus as the ‘only-begotten’ son of God.

So, what exactly was John 3:16 trying to tell us – that only those who believe in Jesus Christ will not perish and have eternal life ?? And what does ‘believe in Jesus Christ’ even mean? Believe in his preaching or/and believe he is God the Son ??

 

[JerryMyers]

The "being" that was Jesus existed long before Jesus was born in a human body. The human form was Jesus was "begotten" when God caused a virgin to become pregnant. The spirit that lived in that human body was the spirit that existed long before. So Jesus was begotten as a human even though he lived as a spirit since the beginning.

If you are trying to imply here that Jesus preexisted before the world was, then, you must understand that we all existed in the realm of God’s Mind and in His Plan long BEFORE we even existed. This is clearly evidenced by God’s spoken Words to Jeremiah –

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” – Jeremiah 1:5.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

If you are trying to imply here that Jesus preexisted before the world was, then, you must understand that we all existed in the realm of God’s Mind and in His Plan long BEFORE we even existed. This is clearly evidenced by God’s spoken Words to Jeremiah –

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” – Jeremiah 1:5.

God knew Jeremiah would be a prophet before he was born. Jesus was the being known as "the Word" in Genesis. The Word was with God and the Word was God. Both existed from the beginning and then the Word was made flesh as Jesus.

 

[JerryMyers]

God knew Jeremiah would be a prophet before he was born.

Of course, that’s not a brainer - God knew Jeremiah would be a prophet before he was born because it was God who appointed him as a prophet before he was formed/born - “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” – Jeremiah 1:5.

Jeremiah 1:5 also CLEARLY said “Before I formed you in the womb…”, which would mean, even though Jeremiah was born through the normal human process of reproduction, it was still God who created him by forming him in his mother’s womb. In other words, both the creations of Jesus and Jeremiah are only possible by the Will of God. The only difference is the ‘how’ - Jesus was created without the intervention of a man, whereas Jeremiah (and us) was created through the intimate relationship between a man and a woman.

Jesus was the being known as "the Word" in Genesis. The Word was with God and the Word was God. Both existed from the beginning and then the Word was made flesh as Jesus.

Firstly, there’s no mention of ‘the Word’ in Genesis, so, saying ‘Jesus was the being known as "the Word"' in Genesis’ is just one of the many assumptions that Christians made to support their false belief that Jesus is God.

Secondly, the Word was with God and the Word was God does not mean Jesus is God.

‘The Word of God’ is not a person, but it’s called ‘the Word of God’ because it was God who uttered it. If it was Trump who uttered it, then, we would say it’s ‘the word of Trump’.

The Word was with God and the Word was God is no different than your word was with you and your word was you when you uttered it. After that, the word you have uttered is no longer with you and is no longer you because that moment has already passed. Why do you think John 1:1 is in the past-tensed ?? If the ‘Word of God’ is exclusively Jesus and that supposed to make him God since the beginning of time, then John 1:1 would have said ‘the Word IS with God and the Word IS God’.

 

[moorea944]

God knew Jeremiah would be a prophet before he was born. Jesus was the being known as "the Word" in Genesis. The Word was with God and the Word was God. Both existed from the beginning and then the Word was made flesh as Jesus.

Actually, you got half right.

God did know Jeremiah before he was born, just like us too. God knows the beginning from the end. But.... Jesus didnt pre-exist like some trinitarians believe in. Jesus is the Word and a few other things. But in John 1, he is not. The orginal Greek word for "Word" is LOGOS. It means someone plans, reasons or thoughts. So it's actually talking about God's plans, reasons and thoughts were with Him in the beginning. Jesus is part of that , of course, but it's not talking about Jesus until verse 14.

There is no reason for Jesus to pre-exist. He was born just like the bible tells us. He was made like us. You cant be immortal then mortal, then back to immortal. Jesus was born mortal, with same nature prone to sin. He had to be born of a woman to inherit that. And that was for a reason too. He had to conquer sin.

 

[Muffled]

Any reasom why father and son can't share one spirit?

I believe it is possible for God but it is not something He has any reason to do. The Qu'ran says that He does not have sons. That is a pretty general statement but I believe it means He has a policy not to sire any in the usual way.

 

[Muffled]

but I do not

my previous post was rhetorical
to give a second thought to those who recite the Lord's Prayer

we declare ourselves sons of God as the Prayer begins

heaven hears it
and so too the Devil as he stands right behind you

shall we go to our closets and pray?
knowing the actual situation

I believe my experience is that I am God. I can understand why you would have trouble believing that but that does not change the facts.

 

[Muffled]

Absolutely not!! Jesus never did that! He always gave God the glory in everything. Jesus is saying here that he is in the same way of thinking than his father. Jesus knows his father's will and they are both on the same page. How can a "man" be co-equal with the Creator of the Universe? Doesnt make sense does it....

I believe you are putting words in His mouth. The context does not support that view.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Of course, that’s not a brainer - God knew Jeremiah would be a prophet before he was born because it was God who appointed him as a prophet before he was formed/born - “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” – Jeremiah 1:5.

Jeremiah 1:5 also CLEARLY said “Before I formed you in the womb…”, which would mean, even though Jeremiah was born through the normal human process of reproduction, it was still God who created him by forming him in his mother’s womb. In other words, both the creations of Jesus and Jeremiah are only possible by the Will of God. The only difference is the ‘how’ - Jesus was created without the intervention of a man, whereas Jeremiah (and us) was created through the intimate relationship between a man and a woman.



Firstly, there’s no mention of ‘the Word’ in Genesis, so, saying ‘Jesus was the being known as "the Word"' in Genesis’ is just one of the many assumptions that Christians made to support their false belief that Jesus is God.

Secondly, the Word was with God and the Word was God does not mean Jesus is God.

‘The Word of God’ is not a person, but it’s called ‘the Word of God’ because it was God who uttered it. If it was Trump who uttered it, then, we would say it’s ‘the word of Trump’.

The Word was with God and the Word was God is no different than your word was with you and your word was you when you uttered it. After that, the word you have uttered is no longer with you and is no longer you because that moment has already passed. Why do you think John 1:1 is in the past-tensed ?? If the ‘Word of God’ is exclusively Jesus and that supposed to make him God since the beginning of time, then John 1:1 would have said ‘the Word IS with God and the Word IS God’.

Perjaps one of the false assumptions people have is that the Word is not the one who became Jesus. The Word was made flesh. Jesus was made flesh.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Actually, you got half right.

God did know Jeremiah before he was born, just like us too. God knows the beginning from the end. But.... Jesus didnt pre-exist like some trinitarians believe in. Jesus is the Word and a few other things. But in John 1, he is not. The orginal Greek word for "Word" is LOGOS. It means someone plans, reasons or thoughts. So it's actually talking about God's plans, reasons and thoughts were with Him in the beginning. Jesus is part of that , of course, but it's not talking about Jesus until verse 14.

There is no reason for Jesus to pre-exist. He was born just like the bible tells us. He was made like us. You cant be immortal then mortal, then back to immortal. Jesus was born mortal, with same nature prone to sin. He had to be born of a woman to inherit that. And that was for a reason too. He had to conquer sin.

When speeking of Jesus the Bible says the all things were made by him. That shows that he was with the Father at the beginning and was the one who actually made all things following the Father's plans.

 

[JerryMyers]

Perjaps one of the false assumptions people have is that the Word is not the one who became Jesus. The Word was made flesh. Jesus was made flesh.

Perhaps one of the false assumptions Trinitarian Christians have is that the ‘Word of God’ is exclusively Jesus when the Word of God which is an expression of His Will, can be anything or anyone God Wills and Wants it to be.

John 1:1 is about God’s creative self-expression as they are translated into action. Unlike man, God creates simply by just willing it, which He expressed by a Word uttered by Him, into existence. Words from Him are the expression of His Will, just as words spoken by us are the expression of our ideas and thoughts. In other words, nothing got created if God did not will it into existence.

So, even if you read “And the Word (of God) became flesh and lived among us, …..”, that only tells us when God Willed and expressed that Will by a Word, the Word that He uttered (in this case, to create a man) now became flesh and became a living entity, a human being, and this human being, who God Willed into existence, is now living among the people. Similarly, when God Willed and said “Let there BE light”, the Word (which he uttered to expressed His Will to create Light) became light. In both cases, it’s NOT that God Himself became the light or became a man nor did the man He willed into existence, become God to live among His creations.

 

[Thief]

I believe my experience is that I am God.

you are?......God?

 

[moorea944]

When speeking of Jesus the Bible says the all things were made by him. That shows that he was with the Father at the beginning and was the one who actually made all things following the Father's plans.

Actually it doesnt. Show me the verse that your refering to. Please keep in mind that there are some bad translations.

 

[moorea944]

I believe you are putting words in His mouth. The context does not support that view.

You mean your view?.....

 

[TrueBeliever37]

When speeking of Jesus the Bible says the all things were made by him. That shows that he was with the Father at the beginning and was the one who actually made all things following the Father's plans.

YHWH said he made all things in Isaiah 44:24 (Note: He said alone and by myself) So you have a problem here with what you are saying.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

1. Jesus said The Doctrine of God is of God not himself

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
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2. Jesus said he came from God not of himself and his God and Father is God and Father of his disciples.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
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3. Jesus said he came in his Father's name /authority and also corrected a ruler who called him good because none is God save one that is God.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
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4. The Father is greater so the Son is One in agreement with The Father.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
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5. Son said if not subservient to the works of the Father believe him not.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
----------------------

6. Disciples of Christ also one with Christ and The Father.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

There are so many verses that give you a problem with what you are teaching. I will give just a few.

Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28-29

If you have SEEN me you have SEEN the Father. John 14:7-9

The problem is you seem to think the Father and the Son are two separate individuals. Whereas in reality the Father is the eternal Spirit of God, and the Son is the fleshly body the Father took on to sacrifice for man's sin. The Father manifested himself in a fleshly body.

And yes, the Spirit is the God of that flesh. And the Spirit is also the Father of that flesh. But it is not two separate persons. It is as he said - I and my Father are one. The Father was the one dwelling in that body.